2 seeds, 2 Jerusalems

[InSpiritInTruth]

Galatians 4:22-29“For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.[SUP]23 [/SUP]But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of thefreewoman was by promise.[SUP]24 [/SUP]Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.[SUP]25 [/SUP]For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondagewith her children.


[SUP]26 [/SUP]But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.[SUP]27 [/SUP]For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.[SUP]28 [/SUP]Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]But as then he that was born after the fleshpersecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.”

This allegory speaks of the 2 spiritual seeds (2 sons) Ishmael and Isaac. The first was born of the flesh, the other was born again from above by the HolySpirit. The children of the bondwoman are in bondage to sin.

It also speaks of 2 Covenants (one earthly, the other heavenly)
It also speaks of 2 spiritual Jerusalem's (one earthly, one heavenly)

In the beginning of Galatians 4:1-7 Paul speaks of those who shall be heirs of the promise, who were once in bondage “under the elements of the world.”(or sin) Paul then says Christ came to redeem those who were under the law that they might receive the adoption of sons. But what law was Paul talking about when he said under the elements of the world?

Paul was talking about the law of sin, as Paul was also using Jesus testimony to show the 2 spiritual seeds, or 2 sons. (one flesh/one Spirit)

Notice Jesus words in John 8:34-36 “Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.” Now notice what Paul say here in Romans 8:2 “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

These 2 laws have to do with the 2 minds, which also speaks of the 2 seeds (carnally minded/spiritually minded)

In the above allegory we see 2 sons, which represent the 2 spiritual seeds> Genesis 3:15 (first flesh/ the other Spirit) Those who are of this world (elements of this world) are of the flesh,(serpents seed) and are also in the bondage of sin (children of the bondwoman)= earthly Jerusalem. (Harlot, false tabernacle) Body of the Beast. (from all peoples nations and tongues)

The children of Promise are those who are born again from above of the HolySpirit, (not of this world) but are of the Jerusalem from above= Heavenly Jerusalem (Bride of the Lamb) = Faithful Church= Body of Christ (which is made up of all peoples, nations, and tongues)

Part 1 continue next....

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The bondwoman woman’s children= (earthly Jerusalem) is in bed with the kings of the earth= corrupted by the ways of the world= “great city”= (Mystery Babylon) = Synagogue of Satan (made up of many members, from all peoples nations and tongues)

Notice in Galatians 4:25 Paul says Arabia answers to the Jerusalem which is now, which means these serve the law of sin.
The word Arabia means “desert, desolate or barren”

This speaks of not bearing fruit 2 Peter 1:8 “For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Only those who understand and abide in the words of God can bear fruit. Matthew 13:23 “But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

But the children of the curse (Zechariah 5:8-11) are the wicked and adulterous generation who are unable to cease from sin. 2 Peter 2:14 “Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:”

These are those who love the world, and are in bed with the ways of the world. 1 John 2:15 “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 1 John 2:16 “For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.” James 4:4 “Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.”

So those who are in bed with, or in love with the ways of the world, are of the Harlot “Mystery Babylon”
Just as those who swear falsely by the Lords name are the, hypocrites, brood of vipers, serpents, wicked and adulterous generation, seed of evil doers, natural brute beasts etc.

And again Arabia means “desert, desolate, barren” Job 15:34 “For the congregation of hypocrites shall be desolate, and fire shall consume the tabernacles of bribery.” Jeremiah 12:10 “Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.”Ezekiel 14:15 “If I cause noisome beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts:”

So you’re either a good tree, or bad, you are either of the flesh, or of the Spirit. John 3:6-7“That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.”

What did Paul conclude in Galatians 4:30-31 “Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.[SUP]31 [/SUP]So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.”

What did Peter say in 1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.” And again Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:50 “Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”

John 1:12-13 “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”

 

[Elin]

Galatians 4:22-29
“For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of thefreewoman was by promise.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondagewith her children.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]But as then he that was born after the fleshpersecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.”

This allegory speaks of the 2 spiritual seeds (2 sons) Ishmael and Isaac.
The first was born of the flesh, the other was born again from above by the HolySpirit.

The children of the bondwoman are in bondage to sin.

The allegory speaks of Abraham's children by two different wives, Hagar and Sarah.

The son of fruitful Hagar was born in the natural way, of self effort.
The son of barren Sarah was born of faith in the promise (Heb 11:11) by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Hagar, the bondwoman, is in slavery with her children (v. 25); i.e., her children the Jews
(earthly Jerusalem) are still under the bondage to the law issued at Mt. Sinai (v. 24).

It also speaks of 2 Covenants one earthly, the other heavenly
It also speaks of 2 spiritual Jerusalem's (one earthly, the other heavenly

Hagar represents the Sinaitic covenant (v. 24), while
Sarah (v. 28) is the barren woman of the promise (v. 27).

In rejecting the Promise (Christ), the Jews reject the New Covenant, and no longer inherit any promises,
because they are all shut up in Christ (Gal 3:16, 29; 1Co 1:20).
All the types, shadows, figures (Col 2:17) and all the promises (1Co 1:20) are shut up in Christ alone.

Hagar represents earthly Jerusalem, the Jews still in bondage to the law.
Sarah, our mother, represents the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of God, in which Christ reigns
and in which her children, Christians, are citizens.

So Mt. Sinai does not represent bondage to sin,
Mt. Sinai (Hagar, bondage, earthly Jerusalem) represents bondage to the law.

 

[Elin]

The bondwoman woman’s children= (earthly Jerusalem) is in bed with the kings of the earth= corrupted by the ways of the world= “great city”= (Mystery Babylon) = Synagogue of Satan (made up of many members, from all peoples nations and tongues)

Notice in Galatians 4:25 Paul says Arabia answers to the Jerusalem which is now, which means these serve the law of sin.
The word Arabia means “desert, desolate or barren”

This speaks of not bearing fruit 2 Peter 1:8 “For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Only those who understand and abide in the words of God can bear fruit. Matthew 13:23 “But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

But the children of the curse (Zechariah 5:8-11) are the wicked and adulterous generation who are unable to cease from sin. 2 Peter 2:14 “Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:”

These are those who love the world, and are in bed with the ways of the world. 1 John 2:15 “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 1 John 2:16 “For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.” James 4:4 “Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.”

So those who are in bed with, or in love with the ways of the world, are of the Harlot “Mystery Babylon”
Just as those who swear falsely by the Lords name are the, hypocrites, brood of vipers, serpents, wicked and adulterous generation, seed of evil doers, natural brute beasts etc.

And again Arabia means “desert, desolate, barren” Job 15:34 “For the congregation of hypocrites shall be desolate, and fire shall consume the tabernacles of bribery.” Jeremiah 12:10 “Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.”Ezekiel 14:15 “If I cause noisome beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts:”

So you’re either a good tree, or bad, you are either of theflesh, or of theSpirit.

John 3:6-7“That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.”

What did Paul conclude in Galatians 4:30-31 “Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.[SUP]31 [/SUP]So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.”

Gal 4:21-31 is an analogy (comparison) simply of the Old Covenant and the New Covenant (v. 24),
of bondage to the law under the Old Covenant (v. 21), and freedom in Christ
under the New Covenant (v. 31).

It's not about sin.

Actually, Mt 13:23; Jn 1:12-13, 3:6-7; 1Pe 1:23 ; 2Pe 1:8, 2:14; 1Jn 2:15, 16; Jas 4:4, etc. are not about
Gal 4:21-31.

What did Peter say in

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.” And again Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:50 “Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”

John 1:12-13 “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

So Mt. Sinai does not represent bondage to sin,
Mt. Sinai (Hagar, bondage, earthly Jerusalem) represents bondage to the law.

The allegory is about the 2 sons (Gal 4:23-24) which is about the 2 seeds ( flesh/ Spirit)
The law of Moses was not even around in the days of Ishmael and Isaac. (so that's a fail)

Also Paul was talking to Gentiles (not under the law of Moses) but some entered in later trying to bind them with the law of Moses.
But notice what Paul says in the beginning of the chapter.

Galatians 4:1-3 "Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;[SUP]2 [/SUP]But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:"

That bondage is the bondage of sin. Paul was speaking off of Jesus words in Notice Jesus words in John 8:34-36 “Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.” Now notice what Paul say here in Romans 8:2 “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

There it is plain as day. The law of sin was around in the days of Ishmael and Isaac.

 

[Hizikyah]

Yet only one enters in....

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

John 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

THE SEED ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE:

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

New American Standard Bible
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

King James Bible
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


SEED is word #G4690 spermaStrong's Concordance

sperma: that which is sown, i.e. seed
​

Original Word: σπέρμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sperma
Phonetic Spelling: (sper'-mah)
Short Definition: seed, offspring
Definition: (a) seed, commonly of cereals, (b) offspring, descendents.

 

[Hizikyah]

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

Romans 7:7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary,I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.

12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.

13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.

14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.

16 And if I did what I did not want to do, I agreed that the Law is righteous.

17 As it was, it was no longer I myself who did it, but it was sin living in me.

22 For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man;

23 But I saw another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the Law in my mind, and bringing me into captivity of the law of sin, which is in my members.

25 Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.

What law is it evil to serve?

The ways of the world or the ways of the Most High?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

In case anyone is wondering, here is where the 2 seeds are first shown in scripture.

Genesis 3:14-15[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

The 2 laws were in effect even at this time, the law of faith and the law of sin.

 

[Hizikyah]

In case anyone is wondering, here is where the 2 seeds are first shown in scripture.

Genesis 3:14-15[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

The 2 laws were in effect even at this time, the law of faith and the law of sin.

SO in genesis 3 is says something about "law of faith and the law of sin" ?

Or are you putting your own spin on it? and meaning of word "terminology" that is anything outside of Scripture..... IDK...

 

[Elin]

The children of the bondwoman are in bondage to sin.

The allegory speaks of two covenants under the figure of Abraham's two different wives, Hagar and Sarah, and their children.

The son of fruitful Hagar was born in the natural way, of self effort.
The son of barren Sarah was born of the promise by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Hagar, the bondwoman, is in slavery with her children (v. 25); i.e.,
her children the Jews (earthly Jerusalem) are still under the bondage to the law
issued at Mt. Sinai (v. 24).

It also speaks of 2 Covenants one earthly, the other heavenly
It also speaks of 2 spiritual Jerusalem's (one earthly, the other heavenly

Hagar represents the Sinaitic covenant (v. 24), while
Sarah (v. 28) is the barren woman of the promise (v. 27),
which is Christ and the New Covenant.

In rejecting the Promise (Christ), the Jews reject the New Covenant, and no longer inherit any promises,
because they are all shut up in Christ (Gal 3:16, 29; 1Co 1:20).
All the types, shadows, figures (Col 1:27) and
all the promises (1Co 1:20) are shut up in Christ, there are none outside him.

Hagar represents earthly Jerusalem, the Jews still in bondage to the law.
Sarah, our mother, represents the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of God, in which Christ reigns and in which her children, Christians, are citizens.

So Mt. Sinai does not represent bondage to sin,
Mt. Sinai (Hagar, bondage, earthly Jerusalem) represents bondage to the law.

The allegory is about the 2 sons (Gal 4:23-24) which is about the 2 seeds ( flesh/ Spirit)

But Paul is addressing being under the law (Gal 4:21) and says
the allegory is about two covenants (Gal 4:24), the Sinaitic Covenant and the New Covenant.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Also there are 2 minds (flesh /Spirit)

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

1 Corinthians 2:16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

But Paul is addressing being under the law (Gal 4:21) and says
the allegory is about two covenants (Gal 4:24), the Sinaitic Covenant and the New Covenant.

Yes, Paul was addressing those who were being seduced and had turned away from grace to doing the works of the law, notice in Galatians 4:9 "But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?"

Paul said in the next verse they began to observe days, months, years, so they began to be corrupted which lead to what Paul said in verse 21 "Tell me, you that desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?" Paul was saying there, they could not hear(perceive) what the law of Moses was saying by the mind of the Spirit. (2 minds; first flesh other Spirit)= how one is discerning the law of Moses.

 

[Hizikyah]

Also there are 2 minds (flesh /Spirit)

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

1 Corinthians 2:16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

What is the

Spiritual mind

and

carnal mind


Romans 8:5-8 (ESV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

but im told by many here only the carnal minded submit to "God's law"

odd when Scripture says:

"For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law"

 

[Elin]

The allegory is about the 2 sons (Gal 4:23-24) which is about the 2 seeds ( flesh/ Spirit)

Yes, Paul was addressing those who were being seduced and had turned away from grace to doing the works of the law, notice in Galatians 4:9 "But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?"

Paul said in the next verse they began to observe days, months, years, so they began to be corrupted which lead to what Paul said in verse 21 "Tell me, you that desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?" Paul was saying there, they could not hear(perceive) what the law of Moses was saying by the mind of the Spirit. (2 minds; first flesh other Spirit)= how one is discerning the law of Moses.

The allegory is of two covenants.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

(2 minds; first flesh other Spirit)= how one is discerning the law of Moses.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The analogy is of two covenants.

Whatever, can't instruct em all. Bye!

 

[Elin]

The allegory is of two covenants (Gal 4:24).

Whatever, can't instruct em all. Bye!

So you don't agree with Paul that his allegory is of two covenants?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Think about this, there is only One law, and One lawgiver. But there are 2 minds (flesh/ Spirit)

Now go and learn what was removed from the mind in order to see the true spiritual law.

Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

2 Corinthians 3:13-14[SUP]13 [/SUP]And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

So you don't agree with Paul that his allegory is of two covenants?

I totally agree with Paul concerning the allegory of the 2 sons, 2 covenants, 2 Jerusalems....but not with your perception of it. lol

 

[oldthennew]

in this discussion the weak and beggarly elements need to be 'defined'.
God owns everything, so it is nothing that He has ever written - or claims.
IF you OWN everything, how can you borrow or beg anything???

is He speaking of the roman customs? in observing days-months-years?

under the LAW, what does it mean to be under the LAW - IF I don't steal or kill,
am I under the LAW, or IF I DO steal or kill, am I under the LAW???
no one is really making any CLARIFICATION of all of these definitions.