Martin Luther King Jr's Spiritual Status

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WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
32
0
#1
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†. 2Tim 2:4 . . As Christ's soldier, do not let yourself become tied up in the
affairs of this life, for then you cannot satisfy the one who has enlisted you
in his army.

The koiné Greek word for "affairs" is pragmateia (prag-mat-i'-ah) which
refers to transactions.

One of Webster's definitions of "transaction" is a communicative action or
activity involving two parties or things that reciprocally affect or influence
each other. That definition can apply to any number of human affairs
including, but not limited to, business and politics.

I sincerely believe that when Martin Luther King Jr got involved in the civil
rights movement, and began using the lectern of his church as a soap box to
express his political views; he committed one of the worst sins that a
minister ordained to serve Jesus Christ can commit: the sin of
insubordination.

Wouldn't it be ironic if the man America extols as a hero and a role model
turns out to be a shameful disgrace in the eyes of God?

====================================
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#2
your post has served to remind me of when I was a 'shameful disgrace' in the eyes of God.
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#3
†. 2Tim 2:4 . . As Christ's soldier, do not let yourself become tied up in the
affairs of this life, for then you cannot satisfy the one who has enlisted you
in his army.

The koiné Greek word for "affairs" is pragmateia (prag-mat-i'-ah) which
refers to transactions.

One of Webster's definitions of "transaction" is a communicative action or
activity involving two parties or things that reciprocally affect or influence
each other. That definition can apply to any number of human affairs
including, but not limited to, business and politics.

I sincerely believe that when Martin Luther King Jr got involved in the civil
rights movement, and began using the lectern of his church as a soap box to
express his political views; he committed one of the worst sins that a
minister ordained to serve Jesus Christ can commit: the sin of
insubordination.
Well, there a number of problems with your conjecture.

First, God does not want one man to enslave, discriminate, or hold as second-class, any other man. The problems Dr. King addressed in taking the forefront of the civil rights movement desperately needed to be addressed, and changes made. Fifty years later, we see what his focus on how the black man was treated in the U.S. has changed things, even if some people cannot bring themselves to admit that the racism of the 50s and 60s is absolutely dead and buried today.

Secondly, while you have adequately defined "affairs" from the Greek πραγματεία, the word you should have concerned yourself with was the one your version translates "involved." While that may be technically accurate, a better rendering of ἐμπλέκω is "entangled." The meaning of the word, transliterated emplékō,is "to braid in, interweave, entangle, implicate." It is a synonym of παγιδεύω (pagideuō), which means "ensnare."

Finally, your assumption that business practices or political activism is shameful to God is foolishness. Simple involvement in business or politics does not "entangle" or "ensnare" us at all. Paul was not warning Timothy to teach his congregation not to be businessmen, activists, or even politicians. What he was warning Timothy to teach was that were are to first and foremost honor God, and not let the affairs of this world distract us from who we are in Christ, and who He is in us.

Where Christians have the freedom to voice their opinions regarding their government, as we in the U.S., they have a responsibility as good stewards to inject those opinions into the public debate. If Dr. King had seen things as you do, where would black citizens be today? Still sitting in the back of the bus? Paying "poll taxes" for the privilege of voting? Banned from some restaurants, hotels, and banking establishments?

Perhaps not, but thank God He inspired Dr. King to do as he did, to His glory.
 
Last edited:

WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
32
0
#4
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our assumption that business practices or political activism is shameful to God
Political activism might be okay for rank and file pew warmers; but
according to 2Tim 2:4 it is definitely not okay for ministers ordained to serve
Jesus Christ.

===============================================
 
Last edited:
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
0
#5
A professed Christian striving for brotherhood amongst men and doing so peacefully.

And this is bad in the eyes of God, how? :confused:

Quick story: I entered seminary not a racist but by the time I graduated I had become a full blown racist because of the social engineering garbage I endured there.

A year after seminary I read the following Scripture: If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.

I wept and asked God to forgive me and release me from this bondage. It took a year of prayer, meditation and reading MLK's sermons to reignite my love for our Black Brothers and Sisters.

Racism is the Super Bowl of evil's games. Don't fall prey!
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,363
185
63
#6
It seems that Romans 14 is used for everything but what it was intended for. Here is the time to quote from Rom 14...

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

I don't presume to know Martin Luther King's heart and therefore cannot judge him...

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
 

WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
32
0
#7
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A professed Christian striving for brotherhood amongst men and doing so
peacefully. And this is bad in the eyes of God, how?
2Tim 2:4 isn't a specific rule for "a professed Christian" viz: a rank and file
pew warmer. It's a specific rule for ministers ordained to serve Jesus Christ.
I know that because both of the letters that Paul wrote to his pal Timothy
were written to a minister ordained to serve Jesus Christ,.

Now; according to the Bible, athletes are disqualified when they fail to
comply with the rules of the game (2Tim 2:5). One of the rules of the game
for ministers ordained to serve Jesus Christ is to avoid getting involved in
the affairs of this world; e.g. political activism. This rule is not negotiable.

†. 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let
him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the
commandments of The Lord.

†. 1Ths 4:1-2 . .We beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord
Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please
God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments
we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

============================================
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#8
This is a subject that is so charged with emotion that it can hardly be discussed. I do not know if King was a saved man. Just because he was ordained does not assure his relationship with Christ was as many of us see it today.

From what I can see King preached a social gospel not a biblical gospel. I put him it the same group as the guy Wright. It is not wrong for the man of God to address political issues from the bible but it is wrong to discard the bible to preach political issues for personal gain. Sharpton, Jackson and others use the church as a political vehicle and demonstrate no concern for the Spiritual need of the souls to whom they speak.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Sep 6, 2014
7,034
5,435
113
#9
Romans 14:13
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#10
2Tim 2:4 isn't a specific rule for "a professed Christian" viz: a rank and file
pew warmer. It's a specific rule for ministers ordained to serve Jesus Christ.
I know that because both of the letters that Paul wrote to his pal Timothy
were written to a minister ordained to serve Jesus Christ,.
You're condemning a man -- and yes, it is you who is condemning him -- because you think (erroneously) that He disobeyed God. I would put it before you that Dr. King answered the call of God in taking up the civil rights cause. I would put it before you that the civil rights cause is also God's cause.

You reveal a prejudice I would adjure you to deal with, if you have any intent to serve Christ as His minister. You can deny you are prejudiced, but I see your words. Moreover, the Spirit shows not just me, but others here, what feelings your words gloss over.

 
P

pastac

Guest
#11
terrible post and a an injustice to what Dr King stood for. some of the replies are very mature others are well very revealing!
pastac
 
P

psychomom

Guest
#12
saved or not (way above my pay grade),
right or wrong, aren't we glad Dr King did what he did...said what he said?

think of the mess of violence the civil rights movement was...
not that his message was the be all and end all,
but it seems God saw fit to use it for the good of many.

jmo. :)
 
Mar 21, 2011
1,515
16
0
#13
-
†. 2Tim 2:4 . . As Christ's soldier, do not let yourself become tied up in the
affairs of this life, for then you cannot satisfy the one who has enlisted you
in his army.

The koiné Greek word for "affairs" is pragmateia (prag-mat-i'-ah) which
refers to transactions.

One of Webster's definitions of "transaction" is a communicative action or
activity involving two parties or things that reciprocally affect or influence
each other. That definition can apply to any number of human affairs
including, but not limited to, business and politics.

I sincerely believe that when Martin Luther King Jr got involved in the civil
rights movement, and began using the lectern of his church as a soap box to
express his political views; he committed one of the worst sins that a
minister ordained to serve Jesus Christ can commit: the sin of
insubordination.

Wouldn't it be ironic if the man America extols as a hero and a role model
turns out to be a shameful disgrace in the eyes of God?

====================================

Isaiah 5:20

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#14
-
†. 2Tim 2:4 . . As Christ's soldier, do not let yourself become tied up in the
affairs of this life, for then you cannot satisfy the one who has enlisted you
in his army.

The koiné Greek word for "affairs" is pragmateia (prag-mat-i'-ah) which
refers to transactions.

One of Webster's definitions of "transaction" is a communicative action or
activity involving two parties or things that reciprocally affect or influence
each other. That definition can apply to any number of human affairs
including, but not limited to, business and politics.

I sincerely believe that when Martin Luther King Jr got involved in the civil
rights movement, and began using the lectern of his church as a soap box to
express his political views; he committed one of the worst sins that a
minister ordained to serve Jesus Christ can commit: the sin of
insubordination.

Wouldn't it be ironic if the man America extols as a hero and a role model
turns out to be a shameful disgrace in the eyes of God?

====================================
WebersHome, I don't always agree with your threads/posts, but most of the time they're very good. This isn't one of those times. This is racist nonsense veiled as 'Christian discernment'. We don't welcome this crap here.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#15
I can not comment on his spiritual status, because I am not God. He did some good things and he did some bad things. Racism is a fine line and is practiced by both sides and I will admit that during his time it swayed to the white as racist, but not so anymore. Blacks are just as racist today and maybe even more than whites and use it for i'll gain. It also seems that blacks hate Latino's more than they hate whites and Latino's never owned a slave.

But Jesus loves us all. Red, yellow, black, and white we are precious in His sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world. Yes Jesus love me, yes Jesus loves me, Yes Jesus loves me. For the bible tells me so.
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#16
The story behind the story is that God is still in control. Do you remember all the times in the old testament that a nation became so corrupt and evil, that God allowed their enemies to defeat them? They went into slavery. Have you seen how evil Africa is even to this very day? They practice witchcraft, worship evil, chop off people's hands, geneside, rape, they take little boys and teach them how to murder, they even dance and slice themselves, very deeply and long. Disease and famine have come to them, just like in the bible. God allowed them to go into slavery by a nation who lives for God. And the same will happen to our nation if we turn away from God.

Spiritually look at the Indians, they worshiped the things God made instead of God Himself. And God gave their land over to those who would live for Him. Whatever people put God first- that's the people who will get the land. History has shown that a nation overrun with evil will come to ruin. It is just a fact, it's in God's control. Am I racist? No, I really don't care what color skin is. I myself have Indian skin, but I'm not Indian- I'm Christian. I myself have spots of black pigment skin that people call beauty marks. And if you go back far enough, we all came from Adam and Eve. It's just that the more your ansesters lived closer to the equator, the darker the skin became over time. And for the most part the bible says the evil will choose to live in a sunscortched land. Although Christians are everywhere because God puts lamps in dark corners.

When those in the bible that God allowed to go into slavery came back to God, God took them out of slavery- which is what was happening in the days of Martin Luther King Jr. Now whether or not he was a genuine Christian does not matter, God even uses evil men to bring about His will. Did you see how they marched down the street singing praises to God? Martin Luther King Jr. Was right- we should go by the content of one's character and not by the color of their skin. Do I think what Martin Luther King Jr. Did was evil? By no means! He was a hero, a peacemaker. The bible says, "Greater love has no one than this: that he lay down his life for his friends.

I know I have brothern in Africa. I know I have brothern in America. They are not white or black, they are Christian.

"Red, and Yellow, Black and White, they are precious in His sight."
 
K

kayem77

Guest
#17
Faith without works is dead.
The fact is, the Church (and I say this as a general statement) did nothing for blacks at that time. The Church, along with the world, was predominantly dormant it seems. And Martin Luther King Jr. dared to do something about it. We can't judge what his spiritual status was, but we can praise God for using that man for His glory.
 
P

pastac

Guest
#18
you made some ignorant biased remarks on things you know nothing of, or at least from a very limited world and personal view. you crossed the fine line!!!!! justa a thought
pastac
I can not comment on his spiritual status, because I am not God. He did some good things and he did some bad things. Racism is a fine line and is practiced by both sides and I will admit that during his time it swayed to the white as racist, but not so anymore. Blacks are just as racist today and maybe even more than whites and use it for i'll gain. It also seems that blacks hate Latino's more than they hate whites and Latino's never owned a slave.

But Jesus loves us all. Red, yellow, black, and white we are precious in His sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world. Yes Jesus love me, yes Jesus loves me, Yes Jesus loves me. For the bible tells me so.
 
P

pastac

Guest
#19
great insight very well put
pastac
You're condemning a man -- and yes, it is you who is condemning him -- because you think (erroneously) that He disobeyed God. I would put it before you that Dr. King answered the call of God in taking up the civil rights cause. I would put it before you that the civil rights cause is also God's cause.

You reveal a prejudice I would adjure you to deal with, if you have any intent to serve Christ as His minister. You can deny you are prejudiced, but I see your words. Moreover, the Spirit shows not just me, but others here, what feelings your words gloss over.

 
P

pastac

Guest
#20
Terrible insight as to the comment a social gospel and not a biblical gospel? The difference would be what? Quote scripture or try to live it flaws and all? We are flawed as believers hence Jesus death to save us from ourselves and our sin nature. I'm sure Dr. King had flaws as we all do.
The difference is we know most of his they were written about as he was spied on beaten and humiliated for a cause that you consider unbiblical in your estimation because of your understanding or lack thereof of ministry or so it seems. Many others still hide behind opinioned words on boards and do little work in the kingdom social or biblical!
At least I'll give Dr. King credit for this among them many other things he showed in spite of whatever flaws he had. He taught me as a Pastor that hating ignorant people made them no less ignorant so why not just love them instead or maybe Jesus would have had him do it another way! just a thought
pastac
This is a subject that is so charged with emotion that it can hardly be discussed. I do not know if King was a saved man. Just because he was ordained does not assure his relationship with Christ was as many of us see it today.

From what I can see King preached a social gospel not a biblical gospel. I put him it the same group as the guy Wright. It is not wrong for the man of God to address political issues from the bible but it is wrong to discard the bible to preach political issues for personal gain. Sharpton, Jackson and others use the church as a political vehicle and demonstrate no concern for the Spiritual need of the souls to whom they speak.

For the cause of Christ
Roger