Flesh / Spirit

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
We are all firstborn of the flesh, and also have a sin nature working in us because of Adams original sin. Romans 5:12 “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”

This is how the
serpent corrupted God’s image in Adam by corrupting the ways of man to follow after the serpent’s desire.
Genesis 4:7 “If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.” This desire of the serpent is to serve the lusts of the flesh, and those who are of his spirit think like a serpent, or have the mind of the flesh. (carnally minded)

But those who are of God the Fathers
seed (womans seed) do mind the things of the Spirit of God, or do God’s will, or desire. The 2 seeds of flesh and Spirit are first shown here. Genesis 3:14-15 “And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.” (“it” is the spirit of a lie)


This enmity between God’s
Spirit (Spirit of Truth) and the spirit working in man (spirit of a lie) or of the flesh is shown here.
Genesis 6:3 “And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. (hundred twenty= 666)

But Jesus Christ came to destroy the body of
sin and the works of the Devil. And to remove that enmity, or the spirit of the fleshy mind in man, and also give man a new Spirit and new mind in order to serve Gods will.


Because these 2 minds (
flesh/ Spirit) are contrary to one another, just as the natural man has a mind of the flesh (carnally minded) and cannot understand the spiritual things of God.
1 Corinthians 2:14 “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

The only way to resolve this issue of being
carnally minded, and of that wicked seed and generation is to be born again and made a new man in Christ. Jesus said in
John 3:6 “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Now pay close attention to what Jesus says here in John 3:3 “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

This means the man who is not born again will not see, or understand the many mysteries of the kingdom spoken of in the law and prophets. The reason being is the kingdom of God does not dwell in Him by the Holy Ghost. Jesus said in
Mark 4:11 “And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:”

This is why the world, and even those Christians who are still yet
carnal cannot see or hear the many mysteries spoken by the Spirit of God in the law and prophets. And these 2 seeds, and these 2 minds, or ways of thinking strive against one another.


This is why those who are of the
world, and of the flesh, hate those who are of the Spirit.
Galatians 4:29 “But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.” This persecution was first shown in the firstborn Cain killing Abel; notice Cain was of that Wicked seed in 1 John 3:12 “Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.”

This is the
wicked and adulterous generation Jesus was talking about in
Matthew 16:4 and also in Matthew 12:45. And because they are of the serpents seed both John the Baptist and Jesus referred to them as a generation of vipers, and serpents in Matthew 23:33 “Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?” These are those who are yet in the flesh, and do the lusts of their father the devil, they are the seed of evil doers.

This whole world is under this condition
1 John 5:19 “And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.”

And the only remedy for this condition is either destruction, or for a person to come to the cross of Christ and be born again by faith in God’s spiritual
seed of promise, and be made a new creature in Christ by His Holy Spirit. Then and only then will the covering vail of the flesh be removed from your mind, and your eyes be anointed so that they can see the Kingdom of God that is within you.
 
1 Corinthians 2:10-16
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the HolyGhost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
 
When we are born again of the Spirit we are no longer in the flesh (in Adams sin nature) but in the Spirit (in Christ's divine nature)

Notice the flesh is the nature of this world, the nature of the scarlet beast, Adam means earthly, red= a sinful nature

That which is born [SUP]G1080[/SUP] of [SUP]G1537[/SUP] the flesh [SUP]G4561[/SUP] is [SUP]G2076[/SUP] flesh; [SUP]G4561[/SUP] and [SUP]G2532[/SUP] that which is born [SUP]G1080[/SUP] of [SUP]G1537[/SUP] the Spirit [SUP]G4151[/SUP] is [SUP]G2076[/SUP] spirit. [SUP]G4151

[/SUP]
The KJV translates Strong's G4561 in the following manner: flesh (147x), carnal (2x), carnally minded (with G5427) (1x), fleshly (1x).

Bible usage.....

    1. the sensuous nature of man, "the animal nature"
      1. without any suggestion of depravity
      2. the animal nature with cravings which incite to sin
      3. the physical nature of man as subject to suffering
  1. a living creature (because possessed of a body of flesh) whether man or beast
  2. the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God
 
In Revelation 12:3 we read “And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.” The great red dragon in this verse is a symbolism of Satan, the Devil, or the Serpent as he has many names. But you ever wonder why he is shown as red? I believe it because it is clue for us to understand the nature of the man/beast, which by the way is also shown as red (scarlet).

Revelation 17:3; “So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.” Again the color is a clue to figure out the nature of the beast, which is also the nature of the firstborn man.

Adam being the first man to have
iniquity found in him is also a sign of this very thing; just as the name of Adam means earthly, red. To confirm this sign we are also given a clue in Esau, who was also the firstborn.
Genesis 25:25; “And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.” Who also by the way sold his birthright over some red pottage. Genesis 25:30; “And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom.” ( Edom means red, earthly, of blood.)

More insight into the sign of the firstborn
Esau is also shown here in
Romans 9:13; “As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.” Why was this statement made by the Lord? If you back up to verse 8 we see the meaning in Romans 9:8; “That is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”

So now we begin to see the firstborn
nature of man is flesh, or carnally minded like natural brute beasts. Jesus confirms this truth here in
John 3:6; “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” And is also shown here 1 Corinthians 15:46; “Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.”

The difference between the flesh (
carnally mind man) and the Spirit (spiritually minded man) also shows the difference between the serpents seed and the womans seed; and is also why the firstborn man persecutes those who are born again of God’s Holy Spirit.
Galatians 4:29; “But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.” Even as Cain the firstborn of Adam killed his righteous brother Abel and then received a “mark.”

In this we also see the
firstborn nature of man has a different spirit working in him than that of God’s heavenly Spirit. Just as the Lord said in Genesis 6:3 My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh:”


This spirit in the
firstborn carnally minded man is earthly, lustful and is also of this world; which is also the same spirit of the Red Dragon, or prince of this world. We see the red dragon empowers the scarlet beast which comes up out of the sea.
Revelation 13:2; “And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Revelation 13:4; “And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?”

If we worship our heavenly Father and His Lamb in the Spirit of Truth and in righteousness; how do you suppose the
firstborn man worships the red dragon and the scarlet beast?


And perhaps in better understanding these spiritual things, it will also help one to understand the
mark of the beast, and also the image of the beast they truly worship through the lusts of their own flesh.


So you still might be wondering what is that
red mark shown in the firstborn man of sin, and the red dragon, and the scarlet colored beast?


The answer is found right here in
Isaiah 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.”
 
The characteristics and nature of those who belong to the body of the scarlet colored beast are given to us in scripture. The Red Dragon and the scarlet colored beast are that color because they have been “marked” by sin, or sinful behavior. Just as sin is the “mark” of the man/beast being the spirit of his nature.

These being of the
flesh, are carnally minded, earthly, sensual, and devilish and will do the lusts of their father the Devil= sinful behavior. Those who are of the world, are also of the Prince and spirit of this world, and are guided by and empowered by his wicked spirit. These carnally minded men by this spirit of covering are given the heart and mind like a natural brute beast.


It is written in
Ecclesiastes 3:18 “I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.”
We know this beast nature has been around for some time now, and is not limited to the very last days, even though it is gaining more and more disciples by deception. Again we read in Psalm 49:20Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish.”

Jesus showed us in the parable of “that man” how this “wicked generation”or the last state of
mankind would be worse than his first state, just as it is written evil men and deceivers would also wax worse and worse.
2 Timothy 3:13 “But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.”

We know this Beast mentality was present during Jesus and the apostle’s time, as is witnessed by the apostles themselves, just as one characteristic of these
natural brute beast (natural man) would be they also understand not the spiritual things of God. Paul fought with those carnally minded men who were of the body of the scarlet beast, and of the synagogue of Satan at Ephesus, whose manner is of men.
1 Corinthians 15:32 “If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus,…”

This same mannerism working
in the first natural man is empowered by the Red Dragon, giving these carnally minded men preachers, teachers, prophets, politicians, scientists, and even world leaders a place and seat of authority for a time in this world. This manner and power is of the Serpent being cunning and crafty, with words often times as smooth as oil.


The son’s
nature is like his father’s nature, as the scarlet beasts nature is as the Devils nature and way as well, just as the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. The Devil is also known as the Prince of the power of the air= doctrine breathed and moved by his spirit= wind
Ephesians 4:14 “That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;”

And again the characteristics and
nature of those who are of the Beast are spoken of by the apostles, these being evil and unable to understand the spiritual things of God because they are still in sin, and thereby still in darkness.


2 Peter 2:12 “But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;”

Jude 1:10 “But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.”

1 Corinthians 2:14 “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 John 4:6 “We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.”
 
More food for thought....

I’ve heard some discuss recently if man is born with a sin nature, and I would like to take the time to comment on this issue according to scripture. I absolutely believe man is born with a nature to sin. This nature was introduced into the world through Adams sin, and the spirit of it also dwells in the firstborn nature of man.

We are told in
Romans 5:12 “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”

This is what I believe Paul was showing here in the law of
sin and death in
Romans 8:2 “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Also Paul also said in Romans 5:19 “For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”

There are 2 seeds, just as there are 2 natures. The first is
earthy and of the flesh and is also carnally minded which is of the spirit of this world, and found in the first Adam. The second is of the Holy Spirit, and is of God, sent forth in the seed of Promise, even in our Lord Jesus from heaven.


Here is an example of the first nature in
Ephesians 2:3 “Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.”

Now some believe there is an age of accountability for children, but I believe the scriptures also prove this idea false. In
Psalm 51:5 “Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.” And also here in Psalm 58:3 “The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.” Also the Lord said in Genesis 8:21… for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; ….”

So that is some sound scriptural proof to confirm, but think about this; if man did not have a
sin nature from first being born of the flesh and also carnally minded, then why would man have to be “born again” and made a “new man” in Christ by the Holy Spirit?


The
old man of sin must die, and the body of sin must also be destroyed. And when this happens in Christ, we then are also raised up a new man in Him and given a new nature and mind by the Spirit of God.


Our hearts must be changed, and the
spirit of our minds must be renewed in Jesus Christ
Ephesians 4:23 “And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
 
Just repeating the same errors over and over will never make them right.
 
[h=3]The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector[/h][SUP]9 [/SUP]To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: [SUP]10 [/SUP]“Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. [SUP]11 [/SUP]The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
[SUP]13 [/SUP]“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
[SUP]14 [/SUP]“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
 
I see no error in these teachings. Its straight out of scripture and makes sense.

Now that we know these things about our own flesh, we can look at who and what we are of Spirit.
 
If you abide in Adam you abide in the flesh………………………….If you abide in Christ you abide in the Spirit
If you abide in Adam you abide in sin………………………… If you abide in Christ you abide in righteousness.

If you abide in Adam you are carnally minded
……………… If you abide in Christ you are spiritually minded.
If you abide in Adam you are of the world……………………… if you abide in Christ you are not of this world.
If you abide in Adam you abide in darkness………………………..if you abide in Christ you abide in the Light.

If you abide in Adam you are conformed to the image of the god of this world
….if you abide in Christ you are transformed into image of God’s Son in heaven.

If you abide in Adam you are taught understanding in God’s words by men……If you abide in Christ you are taught understanding in God’s words by God.

If you abide in Adam you are of the spirit of this world
….if you abide in Christ you are of the Spirit of God.

If you abide in Adam you walk after the lusts of the flesh….if you abide in Christ you walk after the Spirit of God in holiness and righteousness.

If you abide in Adam you receive the mark of the beast
………………. if you abide in Christ you are sealed by God’s Spirit.

If you abide in Adam you abide in the words of men and speak them……. if you abide in Christ you abide in the words of God and speak them.


If you abide in Adam you abide in the corruptible seed…….
if you abide in Christ you abide in the incorruptible seed.

If you abide in Adam you abide in Death…………………………….if you abide in Christ you abide in Eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, …………… even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
 
I see no error in these teachings. Its straight out of scripture and makes sense.

Now that we know these things about our own flesh, we can look at who and what we are of Spirit.

What things do you now know about your flesh as a result of this teaching?
 
All believers who have experienced Eph. 1:13 have died to sin ( that is in the flesh ) and the old man is dead. Gal 2:20 and Romans 6:6.

What is the process for "being in Christ?".

Paul shows us the way. It is all by grace through faith in His finished work on the cross and resurrection. Eph. 2:8-9

It is from start to finish - all by grace through faith alone in Christ's finished work.

Right believing will produce the manifestation of His life in and through us to show His love and grace for others in this hurt and dying world.

The process is:

1) we hear the message of Christ

2) we believe the message of Christ

3) we become in manifestation what Christ is now because we see Him for who He really is. We are transformed to reflect in our outward behavior the life of Christ Himself by beholding the glory/goodness of the Lord by the Holy Spirit. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

We can see this being done in Eph. 1:13 when we first received Christ.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, ( 1)the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, ( 2) you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,( 3)
 
What things do you now know about your flesh as a result of this teaching?

Happy people share happiness while misery loves company.

Interesting how some folks focus on nothing but sin; its like they're enamored with it; bathing their mind, body and soul with sin rather than love and grace.
 
All born-again believers that are "in Christ" and are always "in Christ". In this respect we always "abide/remain" in Christ because we are one with Him in our inner man - the new creation.

"In Christ" is a position - it is our identity which is all based on what He has done in the cross and resurrection
. We have died with Christ on the cross and we have risen from the dead to become a new creation - created in righteousness and holiness.

The believer is one spirit with the Lord. 1 Cor 6:17. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit after we have believed when we heard the gospel message of the forgiveness of sins proclaimed to us.

There is also walking "by the spirit" - which is the new nature of the inner man which is Christ and not being deceived by the deceitfulness of sin which is in our flesh.

This too is speaking of us "abiding in Christ and what He has done for us in His finished work and His love for us." We abide in His love and we bear much fruit.

Jesus is the Vine - we are the branches. The branch bears fruit..it does not produce it.

Without Him we can do nothing. We are to abide/remain in His love.
We are to remain/abide/rest in the Lord - abide/remain/rest in the Lord and what He has done for us in His finished work. John 15.

When we "abide in Christ's finished work" on the cross and walk by the spirit - then His life flows out from us to bear His fruit to a hurt and dying world that needs to see His love and grace for them.

The life of the Vine supplies the "sap" needed for the bearing of fruit but it is His fruit that is produced in us.

 
Happy people share happiness while misery loves company.

Interesting how some folks focus on nothing but sin; its like they're enamored with it; bathing their mind, body and soul with sin rather than love and grace.


7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Proverbs 23:7

just half the verse, but that seems to be in vogue in this thread anyway....:rolleyes:

I hope I got the color coding right...mind you, I did use the KJV
 
7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Proverbs 23:7

just half the verse, but that seems to be in vogue in this thread anyway....:rolleyes:

I hope I got the color coding right...mind you, I did use the KJV
Great post, sister. Looking forward to a pious rebuttal.
 
What things do you now know about your flesh as a result of this teaching?

Its not that I didn't know the difference between flesh and spirit. I just said that it's truth. It does show some things in Revelations that I wasn't aware of. I don't study Revelations because it's a vision and needs to be interpreted knowing symbols.

That to me was new.

I realize that his understanding on grace is askew. Theres always hope!
 
Now that we know these things about our own flesh, we can look at who and what we are of Spirit.

If they are not truly born again of the Spirit of Christ then they are yet still in the flesh, and still in the old man sin nature, and if they are still living in ongoing sin and committing sin they are in fact still servants of sin, as this will also confirm if one is still in the flesh. Just because someone says they are born again and "in Christ" does not make it so, you will know them by their fruit. You are a servant to whom you obey, either of sin unto death, or obedience unto righteousness.

Romans 8:9

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."