Culture

[jettrooper]

Can someone help me make sense of this? I have a Logical argument that I need analyzed for any flaws. It seems to me that the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles constitute a foundation that would create a culture distinctly different from that of the world. Many Christians today attempt to interpret scripture in light of the culture they currently live in but scriptures talk of not being of the world. Please share what you think, here is the argument:

[h=3]Logical argument - Culture[/h]

1. Culture is a system of ethical values derived from at least Social Structures, Customs and Traditions, Communications, Economics, and Forms of Government.
2. The Bible teaches Social Structures, Customs and Traditions, Communications, Economics and Forms of Government.
3. Therefore the Bible teaches culture

 

[gb9]

a bit off topic, sorry for that, but your post made me think. the Bible teaches clear PRINCIPLES but different METHODS for keeping them. so there is room for different ways in some places. so a Christian culture does not have to be 100% the same In all things. but not to live like the world, also 100% true.

 

[jettrooper]

Thank you for the reply. Do you think that the Bible in some instances, not all, does include a methodology and when it does, is it important? Things such and Baptism, celibacy, marriage, Lord's Supper, and modesty to name a few, seem to have a methodology about them. Take for instance, 1 Corinthian 7, there seems, in my humble opinion and I may be wrong, to be a methodology to marriage. The phrase "due benevolence" (KJV) in verse 3 seems to infer action required on the part of husband or wife. I would then be inclined to say, biblically speaking, that a person who is separated from their spouse pending a divorce, is violating this methodology. What are your thoughts?

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Can someone help me make sense of this? I have a Logical argument that I need analyzed for any flaws. It seems to me that the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles constitute a foundation that would create a culture distinctly different from that of the world. Many Christians today attempt to interpret scripture in light of the culture they currently live in but scriptures talk of not being of the world. Please share what you think, here is the argument:

Logical argument - Culture

1. Culture is a system of ethical values derived from at least Social Structures, Customs and Traditions, Communications, Economics, and Forms of Government.
2. The Bible teaches Social Structures, Customs and Traditions, Communications, Economics and Forms of Government.
3. Therefore the Bible teaches culture

I'd agree this is indeed logical and there's no argument against it.

a bit off topic, sorry for that, but your post made me think. the Bible teaches clear PRINCIPLES but different METHODS for keeping them. so there is room for different ways in some places. so a Christian culture does not have to be 100% the same In all things. but not to live like the world, also 100% true.

I'd say an argument be found in this; a Christian culture is one Christian culture, so regardless of location in the world should be 100% same in Christianity regardless of world culture or other factors of the world.

Trully in this time more than maybe most any time we can even know of the man has much ability to actually communicate with his contemporaries in much parts of the world instanteously. As it is, this site even does testify to the fact that somehow spread through much the world there are the Christians and they all believe in Jesus and share the culture of Christianity.

Since Christian culture is founded on Jesus it will stand. To be Christian culture, must learn to love God and love your neighbor like Jesus say. Must watch for return of Jesus. Many do this indeed and it is provable indeed therefore that both Christian culture exists and also is Christian.

 

[notuptome]

Christianity is about a future culture. A perfect culture with God as the sole source of it. The bible teaches what this culture will be like.

Christianity for now is in the current culture. Christianity is to influence the culture not the culture to influence Christianity. Christianity is most effective when it passively influences culture and when it endeavors to impose itself on the culture.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[dcontroversal]

Come out from among the world and be separate saith the Lord.......! In the world, but not of the world....!

 

[jettrooper]

Thank you very much GodIsSalvation for your very in depth response. I will, in light of no other evidence, agree with you. The Christian culture is a universal principle. I must now struggle with the ultimate philosophical consequences of this truth. Culture is a practice. Whether I practice what the world does or what Christ teaches. For example, a non-believer practices atheism or paganism but a believer practices Christianity. Likewise a woman can practice immodesty (worldly) or modesty (godly). Either way a practice occurs. Should these practices then also be universal among Christians regardless of the culture they live in? How does this apply to say the American definition of success which is different then the biblical definition?

Also would it then be wrong to interpret scripture through one's culture? Say like the Salvation Army does not practice an sacrament because they believe them to be outdated.

 

[jettrooper]

Thank you very much GodIsSalvation for your very in depth response. I will, in light of no other evidence, agree with you. The Christian culture is a universal principle. I must now struggle with the ultimate philosophical consequences of this truth. Culture is a practice. Whether I practice what the world does or what Christ teaches. For example, a non-believer practices atheism or paganism but a believer practices Christianity. Likewise a woman can practice immodesty (worldly) or modesty (godly). Either way a practice occurs. Should these practices then also be universal among Christians regardless of the culture they live in? How does this apply to say the American definition of success which is different then the biblical definition?

Also would it then be wrong to interpret scripture through one's culture? Say like the Salvation Army does not practice an sacrament because they believe them to be outdated.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Thank you very much GodIsSalvation for your very in depth response. I will, in light of no other evidence, agree with you. The Christian culture is a universal principle. I must now struggle with the ultimate philosophical consequences of this truth. Culture is a practice. Whether I practice what the world does or what Christ teaches. For example, a non-believer practices atheism or paganism but a believer practices Christianity. Likewise a woman can practice immodesty (worldly) or modesty (godly). Either way a practice occurs. Should these practices then also be universal among Christians regardless of the culture they live in? How does this apply to say the American definition of success which is different then the biblical definition?

Also would it then be wrong to interpret scripture through one's culture? Say like the Salvation Army does not practice an sacrament because they believe them to be outdated.

Yes the practices of Christianity are all ready universal throughout Christianity.

I suppose one must ask what the American definition of success would be to see how it differs from Christianity. The success of Christianity is evident as Jesus has all ready succeeded in being crucified and raising from the dead.

I don't think it matters much how people interpret or misinterpret scripture as it is there is only one interpretation of scripture. In the case of the Salvation Army whether or not they perform the sacrament they will still go about their business for as long as it stands.

 

[oldhermit]

Can someone help me make sense of this? I have a Logical argument that I need analyzed for any flaws. It seems to me that the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles constitute a foundation that would create a culture distinctly different from that of the world. Many Christians today attempt to interpret scripture in light of the culture they currently live in but scriptures talk of not being of the world. Please share what you think, here is the argument:

Logical argument - Culture

1. Culture is a system of ethical values derived from at least Social Structures, Customs and Traditions, Communications, Economics, and Forms of Government.
2. The Bible teaches Social Structures, Customs and Traditions, Communications, Economics and Forms of Government.
3. Therefore the Bible teaches culture

You are absolutely correct. The Bible calls everyone into a revealed culture no matter what ethnic group or social structure they may represent. For may years I have taught that culture, history, and human experience are not revelation. God stands over and above time, history, and events. Scripture teaches us how to bring the Word of God to bear upon our experiences so that we can know how those experiences are to be represented. We are NEVER allowed to represent scripture on the basis of our experiences.

 

[jettrooper]

To the American, success is an existential adventure to raise one self up higher above another. Where as Christian success is a "death to self" mentality. In other words if I die and nobody but God remembers me but more people came to Christ, is that success? A Christian would affirm this a non-believer would deny it. I use that example to show how a culture influences our thinking and often times how we interpret scripture. It is true that there is only one interpretation, however the number of denominations in the world is evidence that "things" influence our interpretation of scripture.

 

[vic1980]

interesting topic please continue

 

[jettrooper]

Thank you for the response. I appreciate your contribution. Personally there has been allot of friction from people in my ministry on this subject. Mostly this is on the female leadership/preacher subject. This is a huge issue for the modern church and our cultural influences seem to be affecting our biblical interpretations. There are some other HOT topics but I am trying to avoid that here and focus on the logic for the sake of proper hermeneutics. Anyway, logically, we error if we say something is a "custom of the time" when the bible specifically tells us to follow the traditions of the Apostles and the commandments of Christ. What are your thoughts?

 

[jettrooper]

interesting topic please continue

I am doing a serious study on this subject so I can put it to rest and have a logical defense when needed. My study is currently 56 pages long. I need some peer review on the evidences so all the help I can get is great.

 

[jettrooper]

Good Morning Everyone!

We generally believe that our culture works and therefore is the correct standard by which other cultures should be judged. This is a hasty generalization on our part. In fact this is a logical fallacy: apriori. Suppose I said “John was rude to me. Boys are so mean.” Doing so created a generalization that is not true of the whole (all boys are mean) because of the one (John who was rude). In like manner, we see our culture through our experiences and it shapes our moral principles whether correct or not. We figuratively say to ourselves “My culture is right (Whole: because it works for me) because we are so prosperous (one culture out of many), or free, or smarter…etc.” These first principles, whether right or wrong, become the basis through which we interpret information, including the scriptures.

But if the bible teaches a culture, then our worldview must be changed before we can interpret scripture correctly. Anybody have any thoughts on this?

 

[oldhermit]

Good Morning Everyone!

We generally believe that our culture works and therefore is the correct standard by which other cultures should be judged. This is a hasty generalization on our part. In fact this is a logical fallacy: apriori. Suppose I said “John was rude to me. Boys are so mean.” Doing so created a generalization that is not true of the whole (all boys are mean) because of the one (John who was rude). In like manner, we see our culture through our experiences and it shapes our moral principles whether correct or not. We figuratively say to ourselves “My culture is right (Whole: because it works for me) because we are so prosperous (one culture out of many), or free, or smarter…etc.” These first principles, whether right or wrong, become the basis through which we interpret information, including the scriptures.

But if the bible teaches a culture, then our worldview must be changed before we can interpret scripture correctly. Anybody have any thoughts on this?

You make an interesting point about the use of generalizations. I have found that in studying scripture generalization becomes an extraordinary tool for uncovering deeper layers of things in text. However, there is a world of difference between generalization as it refers to a reading of the biblical text and the use of cultural generalizations that tend to always be contradictory.

 

[jettrooper]

You make an interesting point about the use of generalizations. I have found that in studying scripture generalization becomes an extraordinary tool for uncovering deeper layers of things in text. However, there is a world of difference between generalization as it refers to a reading of the biblical text and the use of cultural generalizations that tend to always be contradictory.

Thank you oldHermit, Our worldview is so influenced by our culture that we usually don't see some of the morally obligated commands contained within scripture. This is apparent with things like women in the church, some evangelism strategies, Saturday worship services, moving Lord's Supper into hallways because it is "offensive" and others I have witnessed.

 

[oldthennew]

each and every experience that we partake of results in
either old or new revelation.

 

[jettrooper]

each and every experience that we partake of results in
either old or new revelation.

Thanks for the input. Would to care to expound on what you mean. I am uncertain what you mean by new revelation.

 

[jettrooper]

Consider a few verses here and remember the second premise in my logical argument (“The Bible teaches Social Structures, Customs and Traditions, Communications, Economics and Forms of Government.”):

"Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the LORD your God is giving you.” - Exodus 20:12 (NKJV)

“ 'Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, that your days may be long, and that it may be well with you in the land which the LORD your God is giving you.” -Deuteronomy 5:16 (NKJV)

“My son, hear the instruction of your father, And do not forsake the law of your mother;” - Proverbs 1:8 (NKJV)
“My son, keep your father's command, And do not forsake the law of your mother.” - Proverbs 6:20 (NKJV)
“A wise son makes a father glad, But a foolish man despises his mother.” - Proverbs 15:20 (NKJV)
“For God commanded, saying, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.'” - Matthew 15:4 (NKJV)
“Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. "Honor your father and mother," which is the first commandment with promise: "that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth." And you, fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord.” - Ephesians 6:1-4 (NKJV)
“Wives, submit to your own husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. Husbands, love your wives and do not be bitter toward them. Children, obey your parents in all things, for this is well pleasing to the Lord. Fathers, do not provoke your children, lest they become discouraged.” - Colossians 3:18-21 (NKJV)
“He who troubles his own house will inherit the wind, And the fool will be servant to the wise of heart.” -Proverbs 11:29 (NKJV)
“She also rises while it is yet night, and provides food for her household, and a portion for her maidservants. She considers a field and buys it; from her profits she plants a vineyard. She girds herself with strength, and strengthens her arms.” - Proverbs 31:15-17 (NKJV)