The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus

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Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#1
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

What is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus?

How does it make us free? What's the law of sin and death?

How do we follow the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus instead of the law of sin and death?
 
Jan 18, 2015
304
2
0
#2
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

What is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus?

How does it make us free? What's the law of sin and death?

How do we follow the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus instead of the law of sin and death?
By continuing to read all of Romans 8 and doing it.

My Mother and my Brethern hear the word AND DO IT - Jesus
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#3
What is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus?

Isayah 59:21, "As for Me, this is My covenant with them, says Yahweh: My Spirit which is upon you, namely My Word (Instructions) which I have put in your mouth; they will not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your seed, nor from the mouth of your seed's seed, says Yahweh: from this time and forevermore."

John 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The Words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."

Yahchanan (John) 14:26, "But the Comforter--the Holy Spirit which Yahweh will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you."

Genesis 1:2 KJV, "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit (7307) of God moved upon the face of the waters."

Psalm 104:30, "When you send your Spirit (7307), they are created, and you renew the face of the ground."

7307 - ruach Strong's Concordance ruach: breath, wind, spirit Original Word: ר֫וּחַ
Transliteration: ruach Phonetic Spelling: (roo'-akh) Short Definition: spirit

Genesis 6:17, "Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath (7307) of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish."

Exodus 15:10, "But you blew with your breath (7307), and the sea covered them. They sank like lead in the mighty waters."
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#4
By continuing to read all of Romans 8 and doing it.

My Mother and my Brethern hear the word AND DO IT - Jesus
So that's it. Read Romans 8 and do it.

Seems pretty easy.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#5
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 8:1-15 (ESV)
"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.[a] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin,[c] he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus[d] from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. 12 So then, brothers,[e] we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons[f] of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”

Now I think reading the whole book is needed, but;

The law of sin and death is not, "do not steal" "do not kill" "love your neighbor" "do not take the Name of YHWH in vain", the law of sin and death is what you see on a television daily...

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

Romans 7:7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.

12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.

13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.

14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.

16 And if I did what I did not want to do, I agreed that the Law is righteous.

17 As it was, it was no longer I myself who did it, but it was sin living in me.

22 For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man;

23 But I saw another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the Law in my mind(v22 For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man;), and bringing me into captivity of the law of sin, which is in my members(v14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.).

25 Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.

Romans 8:2 Because through Yahshua Messiah, the Law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death.

The law of sin and death is not, "do not steal" "do not kill" "love your neighbor" "do not take the Name of YHWH in vain", the law of sin and death is what you see on a television daily...


Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.

Romans 8:3 For what the Law was powerless to do, in that men sought to defeat (heart is wicked), it, Yahweh did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, to bear witness against sin. And so He condemned the sins of all mankind."

Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

"Law" is word #H8451 - torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."


1 Yahchanan (John) 3:4, "Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law."

1 Yahchanan (John) 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

Law/Commandments = entole

Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.

Slice it however we want, sin, which IS transgression of the Law is also in opposition to the Spirit. No man is or can be justified by works, and we are not to use the Law like the pharisees and twist it into something outside of it's purpose, but if we want to walk in the Spirit can we also walk in sin?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#6
Isayah 59:21, "As for Me, this is My covenant with them, says Yahweh: My Spirit which is upon you, namely My Word (Instructions) which I have put in your mouth; they will not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your seed, nor from the mouth of your seed's seed, says Yahweh: from this time and forevermore."

John 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The Words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."

Yahchanan (John) 14:26, "But the Comforter--the Holy Spirit which Yahweh will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you."

Genesis 1:2 KJV, "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit (7307) of God moved upon the face of the waters."

Psalm 104:30, "When you send your Spirit (7307), they are created, and you renew the face of the ground."

7307 - ruach Strong's Concordance ruach: breath, wind, spirit Original Word: ר֫וּחַ
Transliteration: ruach Phonetic Spelling: (roo'-akh) Short Definition: spirit

Genesis 6:17, "Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath (7307) of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish."

Exodus 15:10, "But you blew with your breath (7307), and the sea covered them. They sank like lead in the mighty waters."
So what you are saying is that you have no idea.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#7
How does it make us free? What's the law of sin and death?

How do we follow the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus instead of the law of sin and death?
John (Yahchanan 15:4-6, "Abide in Me, and I in you. Just as the branch cannot produce fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."

Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

James 1:22-25, " 2But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror; for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was. But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does."

Acts 26:20 English Standard Version
"but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God (YHWH), performing deeds in keeping with their repentance."

Acts 26:20 King James Bible
"But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God (YHWH), and do works meet for repentance."

Acts 3:19 Parallel Verses
"Repent therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out; that times ofrefreshing may come from the presence of Yahweh."

New International Version
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

New Living Translation
Now repent of your sins and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped away.

English Standard Version
Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out,

New American Standard Bible
"Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;

King James Bible
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Interesting thing is I have older Bible Dictionaries that say repent is to "turn in a 180 degree manner, not returning to the original direction....

But meh, just think differently right? Still continue in the same oath? Just think its wrong.... OK.

Ezekiel 14:6, "Therefore, say to the house of Israyl; This is what Father Yahweh says: Repent, and turn from your idols! Turn your faces away from all your abominations!"

Ezekiel 18:30, "Therefore, I will judge you, O house of Israyl, everyone according to his own ways, says Father Yahweh. Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so iniquity will not be your ruin."

John (NLT) 5:28-30, "Don’t be so surprised! Indeed, the time is coming when all the dead in their graves will hear the voice of God’s Son, and they will rise again. Those who have done good will rise to experience eternal life, and those who have continued in evil will rise to experience judgment. I can do nothing on my own. I judge as God tells me. Therefore, my judgment is just, because I carry out the will of the one who sent me, not my own will."

Ezekiel 33:11, "Say to them; As surely as I live, says Father Yahweh: I take no pleasure in the death ofthe wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way, and live! Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why will you die, O house ofIsrayl?"

Matthew 12:41, "The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here."

Jonah 3:5-10, "So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them. For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water: But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not? And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not."

1 Corinthians 6:9-11, "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

It is Scripture.

Proverbs 3:1-7, "My son, do not forget my Law, but take my instructions to heart; For length of days, and long life, and peace, they will add to you. Do not let mercy and truth forsake you; tie them around your neck, write them on the tablet of your mind; Then you will find honor, high esteem, and approval in the eyes of Yahweh and man. Trust in Yahweh with all your heart and do not lean upon your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Yahweh, and He will direct your paths. Do not be wise in your own eyes; reverence Yahweh, by turning entirely away from evil."

John 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd (4166. poimén)."

John 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from Yahweh, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."

Yahchanan (John) 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#8
Romans 8:1-15 (ESV)
"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.[a] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin,[c] he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus[d] from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. 12 So then, brothers,[e] we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons[f] of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”

Now I think reading the whole book is needed, but;

The law of sin and death is not, "do not steal" "do not kill" "love your neighbor" "do not take the Name of YHWH in vain", the law of sin and death is what you see on a television daily...

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

Romans 7:7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.

12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.

13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.

14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.

16 And if I did what I did not want to do, I agreed that the Law is righteous.

17 As it was, it was no longer I myself who did it, but it was sin living in me.

22 For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man;

23 But I saw another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the Law in my mind(v22 For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man;), and bringing me into captivity of the law of sin, which is in my members(v14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.).

25 Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.

Romans 8:2 Because through Yahshua Messiah, the Law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death.

The law of sin and death is not, "do not steal" "do not kill" "love your neighbor" "do not take the Name of YHWH in vain", the law of sin and death is what you see on a television daily...


Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.

Romans 8:3 For what the Law was powerless to do, in that men sought to defeat (heart is wicked), it, Yahweh did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, to bear witness against sin. And so He condemned the sins of all mankind."

Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

"Law" is word #H8451 - torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."


1 Yahchanan (John) 3:4, "Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law."

1 Yahchanan (John) 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

Law/Commandments = entole

Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.

Slice it however we want, sin, which IS transgression of the Law is also in opposition to the Spirit. No man is or can be justified by works, and we are not to use the Law like the pharisees and twist it into something outside of it's purpose, but if we want to walk in the Spirit can we also walk in sin?


2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

We are not to use the law to twist it into something outside its purpose. Your words.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Thats the purpose of the law written on stones.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#9
So what you are saying is that you have no idea.
............

really?

No, instead of putting my own words on it, I thought it would be more beneficial, acceptable and right if I let Him talk... Or should I say, let the Spirit talk....

Exodus 15:10, "But you blew with your breath (7307), and the sea covered them. They sank like lead in the mighty waters."

7307 - ruach Strong's Concordance ruach: breath, wind, spirit Original Word: ר֫וּחַ
Transliteration: ruach Phonetic Spelling: (roo'-akh) Short Definition: spirit

John 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The Words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."

Everything I have posted in this thread summed up in my *own words*; Take the entire word to yourself, your heart, your prayer, and accept what it tells you, not "pastors" "teachers" "priests" no man, just hear and obey the Spirit/Word.... No preconcieved ideas, accept what it says....
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#10
2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

We are not to use the law to twist it into something outside its purpose. Your words.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Thats the purpose of the law written on stones.
So does the teaching stop* when we get to Messiah? Or do we (shamah) "hear and obey" Him*?

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? *Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

*2 Thess 2:6-12, "For the mystery of iniquity (secret initiation of lawlessness*) is already working, but the One restraining him will continue to restrain him, until he is made to appear in the midst. And then that lawless one will be revealed, whom Yahshua will remove with the breath of His mouth, and make powerless with the appearance of His coming-- Whose coming is according to the energy of Satan, who works with all power, and signs, and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of sin in those who are perishing, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason, Yahweh will send them strong delusion, that they would believe the deception, In order that all those may be judged as not having believed the truth, but as having delighted in sin."

*What is the "mystery of iniquity" ?

3466 mustérion
mustérion: a mystery or secret doctrine
Short Definition: anything hidden, a mystery
Definition: a mystery, secret, of which initiation is necessary;

458 anomia
anomia: lawlessness
Short Definition:lawlessness, iniquity
Definition:lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin

Are you willing to understand the transformation of the Priesthood?

Hebrews 7:11-12, "Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."

Strong's Concordance
3331 - metathesis
metathesis: a change, removal
Original Word: μετάθεσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: metathesis
Phonetic Spelling: (met-ath'-es-is)
Short Definition:change, transformation, removal
Definition: (a) change, transformation, (b) removal.

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) transfer: from one place to another 2) to change 2a) of things instituted or established
—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

From G3346; transposition, that is, transferral (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law):—change, removing, translation.

Strong's Concordance
3346 - metatithemi
metatithemi: I transfer, desert, change
Original Word: μετατίθημι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metatithemi
Phonetic Spelling: (met-at-ith'-ay-mee)
Short Definition: I transfer, desert, change
Definition: (a) I transfer, mid: I go over to another party, desert, (b) I change.

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)


1) to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other)
1a) to transfer
1b) to change
1c) to transfer one's self or suffer one's self to be transferred
1c1) to go or pass over
1c2) to fall away or desert from one person or thing to another

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G3326 and G5087; to transfer, that is, (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides, or (figuratively) pervert:—carry over, change, remove, translate, turn.

The Perfect Priest!;

Hebrews 4:1-15, "Seeing then that we have a great High Priest Who has ascended into the heavens: Yahshua the Son of Yahweh, let us hold fast our profession. For we do not have a High Priest Who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all ways tempted as we are--yet was without sin."

Hebrews 9:11-12, "But the Messiah came near as a High Priest over the righteous things to come, with the great and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation;Nor through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once, for all, having obtained eternal redemption."

For it was written long before it happened:

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

Psalm 89:26-37, "...My covenant will stand fast with Him...My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie..."

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

John 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd (4166. poimén)."

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might (Deut 6:5). This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Lev 19:18). On these two commandments hang all* the Law and the Prophets."

*all is word #G3650 - holos
Strong's Concordance
holos: whole, complete
Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: holos
Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os)
Short Definition: all, the whole, entire
Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) all, whole, completely

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

Key points to understand IMO Psalm 89:26-37 and "priesthood being changed"

2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away

Thats the purpose of the law written on stones.
This " ministration of death" ?

Romans 13:9-14, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the Law. Put On Yahshua Messiah And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us throw off the works of darkness, and put on the armor of light. Let us walk properly, as in the daytime; not in revelry and drunkenness, not in sexual impurity and debauchery, not in strife and envy. Rather, humble yourself to our Ruler, Yahshua Messiah, and put a stop to providing for the lusts of the flesh."

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."


for the;

*2 Thess 2:6-12, "For the mystery of iniquity (secret initiation of lawlessness*) is already working..."

may you have peace and joy and truth of the Most High.
 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
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#11
If you go back to working at the 10 commandments, the ministry of death written and engraved on stones, you get this;

Galatians 3:10 [SUP] [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

How can this be? How can those that are of the works of the law be under the curse? Why would our work at His "instructions" cause us to be under the curse?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#12
Galatians 3:24-25
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Why does it say that His "instructions" are our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ but after we have come to Christ we are no longer under His "instructions"?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#13
If you go back to working at the 10 commandments, the ministry of death written and engraved on stones, you get this;

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

How can this be? How can those that are of the works of the law be under the curse? Why would our work at His "instructions" cause us to be under the curse?
Either you are misunderstanding Paul or he is teaching what he called "ministration of death"

Romans 13:9-14, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the Law. Put On Yahshua Messiah And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us throw off the works of darkness, and put on the armor of light. Let us walk properly, as in the daytime; not in revelry and drunkenness, not in sexual impurity and debauchery, not in strife and envy. Rather, humble yourself to our Ruler, Yahshua Messiah, and put a stop to providing for the lusts of the flesh."

ohhh did you not post this same verse yeasterday without considering the verse 3 versesafter it?

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

How can this be? How can those that are of the works of the law be under the curse? Why would our work at His "instructions" cause us to be under the curse?
The curse comes from disobedience, the cusre is not dont kill... Killing IS A CURSE*

Galatians 3:13
?
Parallel Verses
New International Version
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole."

New Living Translation
But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

English Standard Version
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—

New American Standard Bible
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us-- for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE "--

King James Bible
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Messiah work in His willing Sacrifice for us freed us from the death penalty, didnt free us from do not steal....

So does the teaching stop* when we get to Messiah? Or do we (shamah) "hear and obey" Him*?

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? *Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

*2 Thess 2:6-12, "For the mystery of iniquity (secret initiation of lawlessness*)

I have Scriptually stated my case IDK what else there is to say beyond this;

This is still a future event....

*Isayah 24:1-6, "Behold, Yahweh makes the earth empty and makes it waste, perverts the face of it and scatters abroad its inhabitants; And it will be: as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his owner; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with him who takes usury, so with him who gives usury to him: The land will be utterly emptied and utterly plundered, for Yahweh has spoken this word. The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#14
Why does 2 Corinthians 3 refer to His "instructions" as the ministry of Condemnation and Death but the Ministry of the Spirit as Righteousness?

I think that you have a bad translation that would equate His Instructions with Condemnation and Death.

The Lord Jesus says My Words are Spirit and they are Life.

Matthew 11:28 [SUP] [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Romans 10:3-5
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
 
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
19
0
#15
By continuing to read all of Romans 8 and doing it.

My Mother and my Brethren hear the word AND DO IT - Jesus
Galatians 3:24-25
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Why does it say that His "instructions" are our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ but after we have come to Christ we are no longer under His "instructions"?


simple is best.


the 'instructions' / torah / scripture, is very much like (or actually?) like the instructions i (and many many others) received while growing up in
a household that attended a 'christian' school and church - we learned the rules and more or less obeyed them - no drugs, no sex, no stealing, no lying, no killing - and the rules 'kept' us from getting into much trouble/ harm/ danger/ destruction.

a lot of people never had (or learned) these rules, and had practically no chance of changing for the better/ getting saved/ humanly speaking. the immoral do not enter heaven, finally, so unless they at some point 'learn' and are devastated and totally ashamed of their sin (for which messiah yahshua died as a criminal in their/our/ place) and repent (turn away from all sin and turn to yahweh to live his way).....

well, that's (part of)the difference in having a "schoolmaster" to bring us to christ that we might be justified by faith.

and not having a schoolmaster......


"The Lord Jesus says My Words are Spirit and they are Life."

true. true.

but there are many who never listen to jesus. ever. religious people and people without religion. they don't want to find him nor follow him.
 
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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#16
Why does 2 Corinthians 3 refer to His "instructions" as the ministry of Condemnation and Death but the Ministry of the Spirit as Righteousness?

I think that you have a bad translation that would equate His Instructions with Condemnation and Death.

The Lord Jesus says My Words are Spirit and they are Life.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Romans 10:3-5
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
Im going to try to make this my last post in this thread....

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

Rom 10:3

the pharisees made their own Law...

and your Romans 10:4 is broken

We are not righteous by following the Law of the Creator, but the Yahshua showed the intent or ultimate result of keeping the Law of the Creator.

Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."

1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."

1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith--the salvation of your souls."

If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away in 1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9. Unless of course telos means the goal.

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies - 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

James 5:11, "Behold, we call them blessed that endured: ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord, how that the Lord is full of pity, and merciful."

Yaaqob (James) 5:11, "Behold, we regard as blessed those who endure. You have heard of the patience of Iyyob, and have seen the ultimate result (telos) of Yahweh: that Yahweh is very compassionate and merciful."

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

"died to sin"

1 John 3:4, "Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law."

We have been taught by "mystery babylon" to trample the blood of Messiah underfoot, we should be repenting....

James 1:22-25, " 2But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror; for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was. But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does."

Acts 26:20 English Standard Version
"but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God (YHWH), performing deeds in keeping with their repentance."
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#17
Either you are misunderstanding Paul or he is teaching what he called "ministration of death"
Ministry of Death written and engraven on stone. 10 Commandments. Law of Moses. Its obvious.




The curse comes from disobedience, the cusre is not dont kill... Killing IS A CURSE*
The curse comes from disobedience. No argument there. I agree.

That's why those that work at the 10 commandments are under the curse. Those that work at the law are under the curse. Just as Paul says.

Because flesh and blood men cant obey the law perfectly. The law doesn't say come and try to obey, do your best, here's your medal of participation. The law says come and obey perfectly, otherwise the curse.

That is why I need Jesus Christ. That is why I have no other choice but to come to Him. Because I can't be perfect by my work. There has never been a time, even after coming to Christ, that I could look right to the law and say "yeah, I'm doing it".

Because those who are working at the law are under the curse. Because they have not submitted to the Righteousness of God but attempt, once again, to establish their own righteousness.

You either trust you or you trust Christ.

The whole new testament is showing us we should trust Christ. And not our carnal understanding and work at the law ("instructions").
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#18
Ministry of Death written and engraven on stone. 10 Commandments. Law of Moses. Its obvious.






The curse comes from disobedience. No argument there. I agree.

That's why those that work at the 10 commandments are under the curse. Those that work at the law are under the curse. Just as Paul says.

Because flesh and blood men cant obey the law perfectly. The law doesn't say come and try to obey, do your best, here's your medal of participation. The law says come and obey perfectly, otherwise the curse.

That is why I need Jesus Christ. That is why I have no other choice but to come to Him. Because I can't be perfect by my work. There has never been a time, even after coming to Christ, that I could look right to the law and say "yeah, I'm doing it".

Because those who are working at the law are under the curse. Because they have not submitted to the Righteousness of God but attempt, once again, to establish their own righteousness.

You either trust you or you trust Christ.

The whole new testament is showing us we should trust Christ. And not our carnal understanding and work at the law ("instructions").
So does "trusting Christ" mean we ignore everything He says? and just say, "He died" so I trust Him by ignoring all His words!

and if I dont do that im "in the flesh"


ohhh my.

John 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

wonder what "follow My words " means?

And IMO if you were really asking these questions and accepting what Scripture says, and not just Galatians, you would have noticed I said;

Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

"Law" is word #H8451 - torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."


1 Yahchanan (John) 3:4, "Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law."

1 Yahchanan (John) 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."
John (Yahchanan 15:4-6, "Abide in Me, and I in you. Just as the branch cannot produce fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."

John 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd (4166. poimén)."

John 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from Yahweh, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."

Yahchanan (John) 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."
How does one gain Spiritual understanding by reading with the guidance of the Spirit or by closing ones eyes and going blank mind?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#19
and your Romans 10:4 is broken

We are not righteous by following the Law of the Creator, but the Yahshua showed the intent or ultimate result of keeping the Law of the Creator.

Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."

1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."

1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith--the salvation of your souls."

If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away in 1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9. Unless of course telos means the goal.
You aren't reading the whole thing, and you are jumping to conclusions.
Romans 10:3-5
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Christ is the end of the law for righteousness. Christ already said He didn't come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. Christ fulfills the law. Do you believe Him?

How can we be justified by faith if we are still working at the law, going about to establish our own righteousness?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#20
simple is best.


the 'instructions' / torah / scripture, is very much like (or actually?) like the instructions i (and many many others) received while growing up in
a household that attended a 'christian' school and church - we learned the rules and more or less obeyed them - no drugs, no sex, no stealing, no lying, no killing - and the rules 'kept' us from getting into much trouble/ harm/ danger/ destruction.

a lot of people never had (or learned) these rules, and had practically no chance of changing for the better/ getting saved/ humanly speaking. the immoral do not enter heaven, finally, so unless they at some point 'learn' and are devastated and totally ashamed of their sin (for which messiah yahshua died as a criminal in their/our/ place) and repent (turn away from all sin and turn to yahweh to live his way).....

well, that's (part of)the difference in having a "schoolmaster" to bring us to christ that we might be justified by faith.

and not having a schoolmaster......


"The Lord Jesus says My Words are Spirit and they are Life."

true. true.

but there are many who never listen to jesus. ever. religious people and people without religion. they don't want to find him nor follow him.
I listen to the Lord Jesus Christ.

He saved me even though I wasn't perfect.

Why did He do that?