Did the LORD Violate Human Free Will???

[Atwood]

Strongs says nature can be defined as "a mode of feeling and acting which by long habit has become nature"

If strong says that, I take it that Strong's baloney is rather rank, not merely strong.

Check your serious Greek lexicons on the word physis (from which we get physics -- the laws of physics do not come from feelings or acquired habits, a given status of nature).

φυσις

Gal. 4:8 Formerly, when you did not know God,
you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods.


2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
among whom we all once lived in the passions
of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature
children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

Words for nature here, not something acquired, but what we are born with:
sons of disobedience & children of wrath points to our nature: disobedience comes naturally (Hebrew figure of speech sons of & children of) and by nature we deserved wrath.

Passions come from the Old Adamic nature, the flesh.
The unsaved (evidently like yourself) live in a state called death, separated from God.

Realizing one's utter desperate state should lead us to despair of being good by our own wills, lead us to plead spiritual bankruptcy, & to cast ourselves on God's mercy as sinners, trusting the Savior for a new birth.

Nature is not about feelings or acquired habits:


3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.


2Pet. 1:3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.

 

[SeaBass]

All scriptures must harmonize before you can ever understand the truth. It amazes me how some will go to great efforts to try to get around the simple truths of the wording of the scriptures to make them fit in with their false understanding of the scriptures. It's kind of like a puzzle, if you try to squeeze the ear of one piece in where it is not supposed to go, the whole puzzle will never be finished. I have seen some pretty bad misinterpretations of the scriptures, but I feel that you have had to stretch your interpretation of these scriptures to great lengths. If you try to make the scriptures fit that says that man has to have a part in his eternal salvation, you will have to distort many more scriptures. Your puzzle has way too many squeezed ears.

I've noticed how you try to read Calvinism into many contexts in your posts.

Mt 11:25 is not saying God hid the gospel from some just so they would be lost. God did not trust the gospel to the 'wise and prudent" as the scribes and Pharisees for they were so locked into their traditions and false teachings and could not be trusted in keeping the gospel. Therefore God gave it to 'babes', the apostles and those that followed them for they had not been indoctrinated in vain philosophies, false teachings and traditions of men but would, without bias, accept and preach that gospel as they received it.

 

[SeaBass]

yahshua never once said the apostles were 'innocent' to start with.

shaul certainly wasn't 'innocent', yet yahweh called and chose him.

no, it's entirely wrong, not having the spirit of yahweh yet, apparently(for who knows but yahweh?!), or breathed on by him, or otherwise permitted,

as the education of men DOES NOT HELP MEN get closer in any way to god......

because little children gladlly accept yahshua and his word ,

while educated dingbats ,

back then as well as all over the earth today, REJECT YAHSHUA HAMASHIACH, (jesus the only messiah savior king)

and even go around KILLING MILLIONS OF PEOPLE, MEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN AND BABIES "in his name" (as in the inquistion, which btw is STILL GOING).

One commentator said of "babes" contrasted to the 'wise & prudent": - . "Babes therefore stand in opposition, not to men of sound judgment and reason, but to proud politicians, and men of learning, who are so full of themselves, that they disdain to receive instructions from others, and who make all their abilities subservient to their advancement in this world"

The scribes and Pharisees upon hearing the gospel rejected it for they were proud, locked in to their traditions. Saul was wrong yet not proud and locked in to false traditions that he was willing to accept instructions given to him and he did believed the gospel when presented to him as the other "babes" accepted the gospel.

 

[SeaBass]

Jesus said that he came unto his own (Jews) and they believed him not. Some of those Jews that were set on crucifying Jesus were born of the Spirit, but refused to believe that Jesus was the Son of God, and their savior. John 12:47, And if any man hear my words, AND BELIEVE NOT, I judge him not, for I came not to judge the WORLD, but to save the WORLD. The word "world" in this verse is the same world that is in John 3:16, which, according to Thayer's Greek interpretation, means "pertaining to believers only". Just as many of God's children who do not understand what Christ did for them on the cross does not mean that the fact is that He secured their eternal salvation, without the loss of even one, John 6:39. History tells us that the first American Indians, before anyone came over to tell them that there is a God, yet some of them are recorded to have believed in the great white Spirit. This indicates to me, that in order to believe this, they were already born of the Spirit, having not heard of God or his Son.

None of those unbelieving Jews who crucified Christ had been born again. Unbelievable you would make such a statement.

You post " John 12:47, And if any man hear my words, AND BELIEVE NOT, I judge him not, for I came not to judge the WORLD, but to save the WORLD"

Hear means they perceived, understood Jesus words but chose to not believe those words. So the carnal man can understand the words of Christ but chooses to reject them. How/why would they believe not if they could not even understand the words Jesus was speaking?

Jn 3:17 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

 

[SeaBass]

You don't understand the definition of free will.
Review and think on it.


It's not about choosing to prefer, it's about actually preferring naturally because of your disposition.

I don't choose to prefer comfort to misery, it is what I actually prefer naturally because of who I am.

When God causes you to prefer something, you don't choose to prefer it,
you actually prefer it naturally.


You don't see that you have jumped the rail and are into another discussion
where God does not act to cause one to naturally prefer his will for them?

This discussion is about God acting to cause one to naturally prefer his will.


You are the one who assumes an absolutely free will.
The Bible denies such--Jesus says we are all slaves to sin (Jn 8:34). Slaves are not free.

We are all God's condemned (Jn 3:18) enemies,
under his wrath which remains on us (Jn 3:36) if we do not believe in Jesus Christ.

You have no freedom to choose the outcome of unbelief.

It's you who does not understand freewill for you keep associating "causing", "forcing" with freewill.

Freewill has nothing to do with what someone else causes/forces upon you.

Men choose to sin thereby making themselves slaves to sin. Yet those that choose to obey are freed from sin, Rom 6:17,18.

 

[SeaBass]

Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit and as God's only begotten Son He did not inherit a sinful nature. Fascinating that you think that the Word of God is poetry. Maybe explains why you err in some regards.

Phil 2:7,8 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

Heb 2:17 "Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people."

If all men are born in sin and depraved so was Christ.

 

[SeaBass]

Jonah is a great case in point. As I see Jonah:

The LORD ordered Jonah to go to Nineveh; it was the Lord's will that Nineveh repent & be spared punishment. Now Jonah did not agree; Jonah wanted Nineveh to get destroyed. So Nineveh is East, but Jonah takes a ship to the West -- I think Tarshish was likely Spain, about as East as he could get. So what happens? The LORD prepares 4 things in the book. The Lord sends a storm & the Lord prepares a special fish to transport Jonah after Jonah is thrown overboard. So it is my guess that the digestive juices of that fish made Jonah look horrible & yucky; thus when Jonah got to Nineveh & merely announced impending judgment, the Nineties were so impressed that low & behold they repented! I think that what Jonah did to prevent Nineveh from repenting exactly caused them to repent!

God will have His sovereign way when He so chooses.

God did not violate Jonah's freewill in the process. If Jonah had no freewill he could have never run from God in the first place. Because he ran he disobeyed and God has the right to punish the disobedient. When word came to Jonah a second time to go to Nineveh, Jonah of his freewill went, Jonah 3:1-3.

 

[VioletReigns]

Did the LORD Violate Human Free Will???

No, the Lord does not violate. Everything that was ever created was created by Him. Everything that has life is subject to Him. He is Sovereign and everything the Lord does is holy. It is not possible for the Lord to be in violation of anything or anyone.

That is an indiscernible question.

 

[SeaBass]

If strong says that, I take it that Strong's baloney is rather rank, not merely strong.

Check your serious Greek lexicons on the word physis (from which we get physics -- the laws of physics do not come from feelings or acquired habits, a given status of nature).

φυσις

Gal. 4:8 Formerly, when you did not know God,
you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods.


2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
among whom we all once lived in the passions
of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature
children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. ButGod, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

Words for nature here, not something acquired, but what we are born with:
sons of disobedience & children of wrath points to our nature: disobedience comes naturally (Hebrew figure of speech sons of & children of) and by nature we deserved wrath.

Passions come from the Old Adamic nature, the flesh.
The unsaved (evidently like yourself) live in a state called death, separated from God.

Realizing one's utter desperate state should lead us to despair of being good by our own wills, lead us to plead spiritual bankruptcy, & to cast ourselves on God's mercy as sinners, trusting the Savior for a new birth.

Nature is not about feelings or acquired habits:


3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.


2Pet. 1:3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.

Strong got that definition from Thayer's Greek lexicon.

Greek Lexicon :: G5449 (KJV)

The context of Eph 2:1-3 shows that those Ephesians had been walking in sin, living according to the flesh for so long it became part of their nature, not how they were born.


Rom 2:14 "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:" Gentiles could not have done this "by nature" if totally depraved.

------------------------------------
"by nature WERE the children of wrath"

in verse three Paul affirms that all of us “were . . . children of wrath.” The verb emetha (“were”) is an imperfect tense form. The imperfect tense describes continuity of action as viewed in the past. Thus, here it depicts the habitual style of life which had characterized these saints prior to their conversion. Had the apostle intended to convey the notion of inherited sinfulness at the time of their birth, he easily could have expressed that idea by saying, “you became by birth children of wrath...... it is also significant that the verb is in the middle voice in the Greek Testament. The middle voice is employed to suggest the subject’s personal involvement in the action of the verb. The language therefore stresses that the sinful condition of the Ephesians had been their individual responsibility. Hence, combining the imperfect tense and middle voice aspects of the verb, we might paraphrase the passage thusly: “you kept on making yourselves children of wrath.”


......note that in verse one the apostle plainly declares that spiritual death is the consequence of “your trespasses and sins” (ASV). Note the word “your.” This emphasizes personal sin. We are not spiritually dead as a result of Adam’s transgression. Though the term “your” is not found in the King James Version (following the Textus Receptus), it is amply supported by evidence from ancient Greek manuscripts, early versions, and the writings of the “church fathers” in the post-apostolic period (Salmond 1956, 283).

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/43-are-infants-by-nature-children-of-wrath
Wayne Jackson

 

[Jeff_56]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][FONT=Times New Roman,Times] Wuest describes "grace" as follows...
"In its use among the pagan Greeks it referred to a favor done by one Greek to another out of the pure generosity of his heart, and with no hope of reward. When it is used in the New Testament, it refers to that favor which God did at Calvary when He stepped down from His judgment throne to take upon Himself the guilt and penalty of human sin. In the case of the Greek, the favor was done to a friend, never an enemy. In the case of God it was an enemy, the sinner, bitter in his hatred of God, for whom the favor was done. God has no strings tied to the salvation He procured for man at the Cross. Salvation is given the believing sinner out of the pure generosity of God’s heart. The Greek word referred to an action that was beyond the ordinary course of what might be expected, and was therefore commendable. What a description of that which took place at the Cross! (Wuest, K. S. Wuest's Word Studies from the Greek New Testament: Eerdmans)
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Jason0047]

Free will exists. If it didn't then the Judgment would be a farce or a joke. God does not force people to be saved or unsaved. The world will be reproved because of it's sin because they chose not to obey the Command to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (John 16:8-9) (1 John 3:23). In other words, people make choices in this life. They either follow Jesus and his righteousness or they follow the world and it's sin. Jesus says you cannot SERVE two masters. Such a statement would be useless non-sense if God taught that we did not have any free will to make a choice concerning Him. THe Lord doesn't want anyone to sin; Not even anyone professing to know Him or in being one of His followers. Why? Because God is Holy and righteous; For there will be no unrighteousness or sin in Heaven. The Kingdom of Heaven is within you. Choose this day whom ye will serve. You will either serve yourself and sin or you will serve the Lord and His righteousness. You can't just sit back and say God is accomplishing His will in your life as you eat burritos on the couch watching TV the rest of your life. We are called to preach the gospel. We are conform to the image of Christ. God does not drag us about as if we were rag dolls to do His purpose. You actually have to respond to God's Spirit and yield to the Lord. Yes, God does renew a person and give them a new heart after being born again. But a believer is not completely set free from not doing anything wrong. Hence, which proves "free will" has not been eliminated.

 

[BradC]

Free will exists. If it didn't then the Judgment would be a farce or a joke. God does not force people to be saved or unsaved. The world will be reproved because of it's sin because they chose not to obey the Command to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (John 16:8-9) (1 John 3:23). In other words, people make choices in this life. They either follow Jesus and his righteousness or they follow the world and it's sin. Jesus says you cannot SERVE two masters. Such a statement would be useless non-sense if God taught that we did not have any free will to make a choice concerning Him. THe Lord doesn't want anyone to sin; Not even anyone professing to know Him or in being one of His followers. Why? Because God is Holy and righteous; For there will be no unrighteousness or sin in Heaven. The Kingdom of Heaven is within you. Choose this day whom ye will serve. You will either serve yourself and sin or you will serve the Lord and His righteousness. You can't just sit back and say God is accomplishing His will in your life as you eat burritos on the couch watching TV the rest of your life. We are called to preach the gospel. We are conform to the image of Christ. God does not drag us about as if we were rag dolls to do His purpose. You actually have to respond to God's Spirit and yield to the Lord. Yes, God does renew a person and give them a new heart after being born again. But a believer is not completely set free from not doing anything wrong. Hence, which proves "free will" has not been eliminated.

Any individual who is born unto man and through man has been conceived in sin, speaking lies and has gone astray from birth. Christ took care of sin (singular) and sins (plural) by crucifying all of it. You are going to have a problem with these next statements because of how you believe. No one will ever will be a part of the second death because of sin, they will be part of the second death because of their rejection of God's provision for sin, which is His Son who shed his blood as the Lamb of God who took away the sin of the world. They will receive this judgment not because they did not repent of sin but because they rejected God's Son who bore their sins on his body and became workers of iniquity. They will die in their sin because they were not cleansed but God has never laid a single sin to their charge because He was in Christ reconciling the world (kosmos - not church) unto Himself not imputing trespasses or sins unto them (2 Cor 5:18,19). God committed unto us that WORD of reconciliation to be preached in all the world. This is the gospel and the word of reconciliation we have been given Jason, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved. God made His Son to be sin for us, who knew no sin that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him, a once and for all completed act that happens the moment we believe upon the Son with no if, ands or buts about it.

 

[Elin]

You don't understand the definition of free will.
Review and think on it.

It's not about choosing to prefer, it's about actually preferring naturally because of your disposition.

I don't choose to prefer comfort to misery, it is what I actually prefer naturally because of who I am.

When God causes you to prefer something, you don't choose to prefer it,
you actually prefer it naturally.

You don't see that you have jumped the rail and are into another discussion
where God does not act to cause one to naturally prefer his will for them?

This discussion is about God acting to cause one to naturally prefer his will.

You are the one who assumes an absolutely free will.
The Bible denies such--Jesus says we are all slaves to sin (Jn 8:34). Slaves are not free.

We are all God's condemned (Jn 3:18) enemies,
under his wrath which remains on us (Jn 3:36) if we do not believe in Jesus Christ.

You have no freedom to choose the outcome of unbelief.

It's you who does not understand freewill for you keep associating "causing", "forcing" with freewill.

Freewill has nothing to do with what someone else causes/forces upon you.

Choosing what you actually prefer is not being forced to do anything.

Your personal erroneous definition keeps you from understanding.

And your definition is neither the philosophical nor the Biblical meaning of free will.

You are at a self-created impasse.

 

[SeaBass]

Choosing what you actually prefer is not being forced to do anything.

Your personal erroneous definition keeps you from understanding.

And your definition is neither the philosophical nor the Biblical meaning of free will.

You are at a self-created impasse.

You posted earlier "When God causes you to prefer something, "

So who chooses what I prefer, God or me? Freewill is me choosing what I prefer not what someone else forces upon me.
If God preferred that I be lost is that something I will also prefer too?

 

[Richie_2uk]

How much "free will" do men actually have?

Did the LORD violate Rebekah's "free will" in grantingEliezer's prayer?

10 And the servant took ten camels, of the camels of his master, and departed, 1having all goodly things of his master’s in his hand: and he arose, and went to 2Mesopotamia, unto the city of Nahor. 11 And he made the camels to kneel down without the city by the well of water at the time of evening, the time that women go out to draw water. 12 And he said, O Jehovah, the God of my master Abraham, send me, I pray thee, good speed this day, and show kindness unto my master Abraham. 13 Behold, I am standing by the fountain of water; and the daughters of the men of the city are coming out to draw water: 14 and let it come to pass, that the damsel to whom I shall say, Let down thy pitcher, I pray thee, that I may drink; and
she shall say, Drink, and I will give thy camels drink also: let the same be she that thou hast appointed for thy servant Isaac; and thereby shall I know that thou hast showed kindness unto my master. 15 And it came to pass, before he had done speaking, that, behold, Rebekah came out, who was born to Bethuel the son of Milcah, the wife of Nahor, Abraham’s brother, with her pitcher upon her shoulder. 16 And the damsel was very fair to look upon, a virgin, neither had any man known her: and she went down to the fountain, and filled her pitcher, and came up. 17 And the servant ran to meet her, and said, Give me to drink, I pray thee, a little water from thy pitcher. 18 And she said, Drink, my lord: and she hasted, and let down her pitcher upon her hand, and gave him drink. 19 And when she had done giving him drink, she said, I will draw for thy camels also, until they have done drinking.

Did the LORD violate the prophet's will every time a prophet prophesied?

2 Pet 1

21 For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit.


18 Now David fled, and escaped, and came to Samuel to Ramah, and told him all that Saul had done to him. And he and Samuel went and dwelt in Naioth. 19 And it was told Saul, saying, Behold, David is at Naioth in Ramah. 20 And Saul sent messengers to take David: and when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as head over them, the Spirit of God came upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied. 21 And when it was told Saul, he sent other messengers, and they also prophesied. And Saul sent messengers again the third time, and they also prophesied. 22 Then went he also to Ramah, and came to the great 5well that is in Secu: and he asked and said, Where are Samuel and David? And one said, Behold, they are at Naioth in Ramah. 23 And he went thither to Naioth in Ramah: and the Spirit of God came upon him also, and he went on, and prophesied, until he came to Naioth in Ramah. 24 And he also stripped off his clothes, and he also prophesied before Samuel, and 6lay down naked all that day and all that night. Wherefore they say, Is Saul also among the prophets?


IMHO, "lightly dressed." "naked" עָרוּם "2. lightly dressed (in under-garments only)" -- Halot Lexicon

well if you think about it, God has given us free will the once, its up to us to choose whether to do or not to do, He dont give you multiple choises, he gives you the onc choice to make, you do or you dont,

 

[Elin]

You posted earlier "When God causes you to prefer something, "

So who chooses what I prefer, God or me? Freewill is me choosing what I prefer not what someone else forces upon me.
If God preferred that I be lost is that something I will also prefer too?

It's not about you choosing what you will prefer.

It's about what you actually do prefer and being free to do it without force.

Your personal erroneous definition keeps you from understanding.

And your definition is neither the philosophical nor the Biblical meaning of free will.

You are at a self-created impasse.

 

[SeaBass]

It's not about you choosing what you will prefer.

It's about what you actually do prefer and being free to do it without force.

Your personal erroneous definition keeps you from understanding.

And your definition is neither the philosophical nor the Biblical meaning of free will.

You are at a self-created impasse.

So if God choose for me that I will be lost then I will choose to prefer to be lost?

 

[royalscot]

Phil 2:7,8 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

Heb 2:17 "Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people."

If all men are born in sin and depraved so was Christ.

death could not hold him.(jesus) death being conquered. etc etc to why he is the saviour.
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned---13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.Romans 5

look what he fixed

 

[Elin]

So if God choose for me that I will be lost then I will choose to prefer to be lost?

If God causes you to prefer to be lost, then you will naturally choose to be lost because you actually prefer to be lost.

Have you not read:

"God, who put it into the heart of Titus. . ." (2Co 8:16)

"For it was the LORD himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel." (Jos 11:20)

"God changed Saul's heart. . ." (1Sa 10:9)

"I will make the Egyptians favorably disposed toward his people. . ." (Ex 4:21)

"For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose. . ." (Rev 17:17)

"the LORD moved the heart of Cyrus king of Persia to make a proclamation throughout his realm. . .
--everyone whose heart God had moved--prepared to go up. . .
the God of our fathers, who has put it into the king's heart to bring honor. . ."(Ezra 1:1, 5, 7:27)

"I had not told anyone what God had put in my heart. . .
My God put it into my heart. . ." (Ne 2:12, 7:5)

". . .whose hearts he turned to hate his people," (Ps 105:25)
"He caused them to be pitied by all who held them captive." (Ps 106:46)

God can work in the heart (disposition) causing us to actually prefer a course of action,
which course we then freely choose without force.

Your personal erroneous definition keeps you from understanding.

And your definition is neither the philosophical nor the Biblical meaning of free will.

You are at a self-created impasse.

 

[forsha]

I've noticed how you try to read Calvinism into many contexts in your posts.

Mt 11:25 is not saying God hid the gospel from some just so they would be lost. God did not trust the gospel to the 'wise and prudent" as the scribes and Pharisees for they were so locked into their traditions and false teachings and could not be trusted in keeping the gospel. Therefore God gave it to 'babes', the apostles and those that followed them for they had not been indoctrinated in vain philosophies, false teachings and traditions of men but would, without bias, accept and preach that gospel as they received it.

You seem to be getting farther away from the truth if you are now saying that the apostles are "babes" in Christ. Heb 5:13, For every one that useth milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe.