55 Year Old Man Impregnates His 11 Year Old Granddaughter

[Colorful]

Man, 55, sentenced to 200 years for impregnating his 11-year-old granddaughter | Daily Mail Online

I was reading the article above about a 55 year old grandfather who impregnated his 11 year old granddaughter. I thought to myself, “which is the greater evil: giving this little girl an abortion or making her give birth to her grandfather’s child?” Which do you think is the lesser evil? Do the unborn have equal right/value as the already born? What would you do if you were the mother/father of this little girl? What does it mean when the bible says “the breath of life”?

I immediately recalled Exodus 21:22-25. “If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”

Back then, when women gave birth “prematurely” it was almost always certain death for the fetus/child and many times for the mother as well (but the survival was obviously higher for the mother). If the fetus/baby dies (but the mother lives), the guy who hit her is to pay a fine. If the unborn are truly 100% equivalent to the already born, why then is it a capital offense only when the mother dies but NOT when the fetus/child dies? If all abortions are murder, why is one murder treated astronomically differently (a simple monetary fine) and the other is a capital offense? Would it be fair to say there is a HUGE distinction between the mother’s life and the fetus/child’s? Why or why not? If the unborn is not considered a living human being (but a potential human being), would it be appropriate to abort the fetus in a case where a grandfather fathers a child with his granddaughter?

 

[p_rehbein]

whole lotta questions there............a whole lot.........mayhaps you should start off with just a few? it would take an Epic work of Literature to fully answer all the questions you asked............

As a starter, you could share with us your thoughts to each of the questions you asked............

 

[SoulWeaver]

Regarding the verses you have mentioned, the version of events with no mischief seems to imply that there was no injury intended to the woman, aka that it was accidental hurt, but I will look more into those Scriptures.
I have a question for you too. How do you believe the husband felt in that case, and did the fine really mean anything to him, could it satisfy the justice in his eyes because his child died - is a month or a few before birth or after the baby is born really that remote regarding the status of that child?

 

[notuptome]

There are no accidents with God. Sin has consequences. Innocence lost and more innocence in danger.

As horrific as this is God will use it to glorify Himself.

Don't like to dwell on these things but the sins we sin are no less repulsive to our God. Perhaps if Gods people were more sensitive to the vile nature of sin we would not be supplied with so many examples that offend even our dulled senses.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Colorful]

whole lotta questions there............a whole lot.........mayhaps you should start off with just a few? it would take an Epic work of Literature to fully answer all the questions you asked............

As a starter, you could share with us your thoughts to each of the questions you asked............

lol Sorry for all the questions. I think they are important and relevant though. Most people only answer like one (if that) when they respond, so if you could/would answer any/all, I'd be incredibly appreciative.

My thoughts are this: I grew up thinking life begins in the womb and that it is murder for any type of abortion. Being an adult and now fully responsible for obtaining salvation from Jesus Christ and having a personal relationship with Him, I feel it is important to question everything I was taught. I understand parents are suppose to teach their children, but as an adult, I no longer rely on my parents for biblical truths. The older I get, the more I question what was once taught. In this case... I am compelled to believe differently... that life DOES NOT begin at conception. As to WHEN exactly? I would assume at the first "breath of life" as many bible passages indicate. I'm not fully confident either, and so I like to use the forum as a place to here diverse ideas and beliefs.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

The situation in the OP is indeed horrible but this one always convinced me that life starts even before the womb. Hope this helped any?

 

[Colorful]

Regarding the verses you have mentioned, the version of events with no mischief seems to imply that there was no injury intended to the woman, aka that it was accidental hurt, but I will look more into those Scriptures.
I have a question for you too. How do you believe the husband felt in that case, and did the fine really mean anything to him, could it satisfy the justice in his eyes because his child died - is a month or a few before birth or after the baby is born really that remote regarding the status of that child?

Accidental/purposely is irrelevant in that passage. The "mischief" is complications to the mother as a result of the miscarriage. She may have hemorrhaged to death, or perhaps she eventually made a full recovery. Essentially, it's if she lives or dies.

 

[Colorful]

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

The situation in the OP is indeed horrible but this one always convinced me that life starts even before the womb. Hope this helped any?

I'm very familiar with that scripture. I, however, feel that scripture is misused.

The scripture itself states "before I formed thee in the belly", which means this was before the conception (not at conception). This passage shows the omnipotence of God in his ability to see things past, present, and future and the fore-ordination of the prophet... not life beginning at conception.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Accidental/purposely is irrelevant in that passage.

Got it about "mischief" as I went on to look up deeper on biblehub, no doubt. I guess you're offended with all that though - so I'll leave you alone. Praying that God will answer your questions...

 

[Colorful]

Got it about "mischief" as I went on to look up deeper on biblehub, no doubt. I guess you're offended with all that though - so I'll leave you alone. Praying that God will answer your questions...

Nooo! I am not offended nor would I ever be offended!! Please don't stop posting.

 

[Colorful]

There are no accidents with God. Sin has consequences. Innocence lost and more innocence in danger.

As horrific as this is God will use it to glorify Himself.

Don't like to dwell on these things but the sins we sin are no less repulsive to our God. Perhaps if Gods people were more sensitive to the vile nature of sin we would not be supplied with so many examples that offend even our dulled senses.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

What do you mean exactly by "there are no accidents with God"? That God purposely/deliberately (opposite of accident) wanted the granddaughter to get pregnant by her grandfather?

 

[Nautilus]

I guess I'll be the badguy.

 

[psychomom]

In this case... I am compelled to believe differently... that life DOES NOT begin at conception. As to WHEN exactly? I would assume at the first "breath of life" as many bible passages indicate. I'm not fully confident either, and so I like to use the forum as a place to here diverse ideas and beliefs.

if the Lord chooses to bless you with a wife, and the two of you with a child...

if you're there to hear that child's heart beating inutero, and see it beating on a sonogram...

if you feel and see that child moving within its mother...

you may change your mind.

 

[Colorful]

if the Lord chooses to bless you with a wife, and the two of you with a child...

if you're there to hear that child's heart beating inutero, and see it beating on a sonogram...

if you feel and see that child moving within its mother...

you may change your mind.

I very well may change my mind... however, whatever I "feel" when I see the sonogram of my future child inside my future wife wouldn't change the passages of the bible and the perpetual use of "breath of life" indicating a living human being. I very well might "feel" like it is a human being, but in reference to Exodus 21:22-25, I think it would be prudent to value my future wife's life over my future child's life (in a scenario where I had to pick between the two), as there appears to be a huge distinction between the two.

 

[psychomom]

I very well may change my mind... however, whatever I "feel" when I see the sonogram of my future child inside my future wife wouldn't change the passages of the bible and the perpetual use of "breath of life" indicating a living human being. I very well might "feel" like it is a human being, but in reference to Exodus 21:22-25, I think it would be prudent to value my future wife's life over my future child's life (in a scenario where I had to pick between the two), as there appears to be a huge distinction between the two.

the life of the flesh is in the blood.

heartbeat...circulatory system....these things imply blood.

it isn't a baby's first breath that makes it alive.

 

[Colorful]

the life of the flesh is in the blood.

heartbeat...circulatory system....these things imply blood.

it isn't a baby's first breath that makes it alive.

Gen. 2:7 "Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."

Acts 17:25 "And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else."

Gen. 6:17 "I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish."

Job 27:3 "as long as I have life within me, the breath of God in my nostrils"

There are about 12 or more other verses about this. If I have the wrong understanding, what exactly is "the breath of life" then? Furthermore, why is there a different penalty for "murdering a living human being" in the womb?

 

[psychomom]

you can think what you like. (most of us do... )

i dislike your premise, as i dislike all those which seek to take a horrible or hypothetical
situation and create a reason for ignoring something (at least) equally horrible.

it seems to me you're trying to find basis in the terrible deed done to that little girl to prop up a pro-abortion pov. and then looking to justify it with whatever scripture you can find.

now, that may be completely off base, and if it is i apologize.

don't you find it interesting that God says (in Acts) life and breath?

 

[Colorful]

you can think what you like. (most of us do... )

i dislike your premise, as i dislike all those which seek to take a horrible or hypothetical
situation and create a reason for ignoring something (at least) equally horrible.

it seems to me you're trying to find basis in the terrible deed done to that little girl to prop up a pro-abortion pov. and then looking to justify it with whatever scripture you can find.

now, that may be completely off base, and if it is i apologize.

don't you find it interesting that God says (in Acts) life and breath?

It is a bit off base, but I don't typically take offense (especially to people who don't know me or my heart).

Rather than say everything you just said, why couldn't you just continue to engage in healthy conversation with me as I was with you? I responded to you, replied with biblical reasoning as to why I think a certain way but when I did that you respond with my having an agenda to "prop up a pro-abortion pov". Why not answer?

About it being "interesting" that it says "life" and "breath", not at all. They are one and the same. "God and Jesus" are often used in sentences, but we know Jesus is God, the son of God, the Savior of the world. Out of curiosity, what was interesting about it for you? Did you find any of the other "breath of life" verses interesting? Btw, what does it mean to you?

 

[GuessWho]

I immediately recalled Exodus 21:22-25. “If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”

Back then, when women gave birth “prematurely” it was almost always certain death for the fetus/child and many times for the mother as well (but the survival was obviously higher for the mother). If the fetus/baby dies (but the mother lives), the guy who hit her is to pay a fine. If the unborn are truly 100% equivalent to the already born, why then is it a capital offense only when the mother dies but NOT when the fetus/child dies? If all abortions are murder, why is one murder treated astronomically differently (a simple monetary fine) and the other is a capital offense? Would it be fair to say there is a HUGE distinction between the mother’s life and the fetus/child’s? Why or why not? If the unborn is not considered a living human being (but a potential human being), would it be appropriate to abort the fetus in a case where a grandfather fathers a child with his granddaughter?

I think there is a big difference between the life of the mother and the life of the fetus. Both lives are valuable per se, but the death of the mother represent a bigger loss because more people (husband, children, family) are dependent on the life of the mother than on the life of the fetus.

 

[Colorful]

I think there is a big difference between the life of the mother and the life of the fetus. Both lives are valuable per se, but the death of the mother represent a bigger loss because more people (husband, children, family) are dependent on the life of the mother than on the life of the fetus.

For that reasoning, do you think that is why the penalty is different for killing/murdering the fetus as opposed to the mother or were you just throwing that out there?