Eternal salvation vs daily service

[wattie]

I have noticed in the forums, a whole lot of people are mixing these two together. I have heard people say along the lines of walking in the Spirit is getting eternal life.. or saying along the lines of not having eternal salvation until the day the die-- so the person's whole life is working toward gaining it or not. There are also a lot of other variations.

Biblically speaking, these are seperate. Justification is seperate from a believers walk with Jesus. Of course someone has to be justified first, saved eternally first, but the way someone lives out their faith does not affect the status of the justification in the first place.

Eternal salvation- it's from Jesus-- who keeps it by His power. It is His faith in the believer that keeps the believer secure. It's not the believer's own faith that keeps them or gives them eternal life.. because that goes up and down through their life.

So let's talk about the difference between eternal salvation and daily service.

Always bear in mind no verse stands by itself. So for eg 'faith without works is dead'.. context of this ISN'T about how someone is given eternal life.. but how someone is living out their faith.

Abraham being 'justified by faith' when he offered his son Isaac up.. this is not an example of someone being given eternal life.. but how he lived out his faith at a stage in his life. There is another verse of when he was mostly likely given eternal life.. and it wasn't when he offered up his son Issac.

'he who endureth to the end shall be saved' .. surrounding context is again about a group's walk with Jesus.. not about them being given eternal salvation. A group being 'saved' from persecution and trials.

There is a difference between being saved from trouble, hard times and persecution.. and being saved from hell, given eternal life.

Bible verses to come.

 

[Galatians2-20]

For starters, man can do absolutely nothing to save himself so you can toss that "daily service" stuff out of the window. Salvation is purely relational. It's not about what you know or what you do but, rather, who you know and where you make your residence. Christ is our salvation, period. Coincidentally, Christ is also our sanctification, period.

Here's a little something I wrote earlier in the week that applies here:

A parent can love their child, protect their child, feed their child, clothe their child, and provide shelter for their child but unless that child decides to reside with his or her parent, they can not reap the benefits of living with that parent. Salvation in Jesus Christ works exactly the same way.

The Bible teaches that everything necessary to live a Godly life can be found in Jesus Christ, however, in order to access the gifts of righteousness and holiness, both Justification & Sanctification, a believer must decide to make Christ's presence their dwelling place. The believer has access to these wonderful gifts so long as they abide in His Spirit.

However, they can not take these gifts with them if they choose to exit the presence of Christ by indulging in their own selfish & sinful desires. Such gifts are a part of Christ's very nature, that a human being does not have the ability to grasp, possess, or comprehend apart from His present company.

Just as the father eagerly awaits his son with open arms in the parable of the prodigal, grace is Christ's invitation to abide in Him. The Chistian life is an impossibility without Him.

 

[Galatians2-20]

Here is another post from earlier in the week that explains, through symbolism, the perspetive that I wish to express:

Salvation places us IN CHRIST. However, it is a matter of choice to abide there.

For example, let's say you were drowning in rough seas. A captain of a nearby boat sees you struggling, rushes over, and pulls you out of the water. He then gives you a change of clothes and allows you stay in his personal quarters, eating from his own table, for the remainder of the voyage. He then tells you to stay off the deck because it possible that the waves could pull you back into the water where you might drown.

You are now faced with three options:

#1. trust the Captain and stay inside the boat, no self effort involved
#2. ignore the Captain, and jump back into dangerous waters
#3. flirt with disaster by going on deck on hoping that, if you do fall in, the captain will be there to rescue you once again

Now, common sense tells you that the easiest and safest option is to stay inside the boat. Biblical faith works similarly. Jesus saves us and accepts us into His Presence. He then warns us to avoid temptation because to indulge in sin is to venture outside of His Presence:

"But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin." ~ 1 John 3:5

However, in regards to salvation, most believers choose the equivalent of option three. They go about living their lives with little regard to what the Bible says, hoping God will bail them out in times of trouble. To them, God is nothing more than a life preserver, only needed in an emergency.

True, biblical faith not only saves us but also sanctifies us. One need not do anything to remain saved and sanctified but rest in Him by placing all trust in Him and what He teaches. It's when we take our fate into our own hands and follow the desires of our flesh that we stumble into sin.

 

[Galatians2-20]

I realize that most are taught that salvation and santification are seperate. Many are taught and believe that sanctification is a life long process involving works. Neither are true. Look no further than your own walk with the Lord and your own personal failures to testify of this fact.

Salvation is not a decision for Christ. Rather, salvation is life in Christ. Faith is not a belief in Christ. Rather, faith is actually knowing Christ and the assurance that He is true to his word. Sanctification is not a process where we learn to imitate Christ. Rather, sanctifiation is when we allow Christ to be Christ in and through us.

You can not be saved or sanctified apart from Christ. We, as humans, simply do not have the capacity to facilitate either gift apart from the presence of Christ in our lives.

 

[tribesman]

A parent can love their child, protect their child, feed their child, clothe their child, and provide shelter for their child but unless that child decides to reside with his or her parent, they can not reap the benefits of living with that parent. Salvation in Jesus Christ works exactly the same way.

The Bible teaches that everything necessary to live a Godly life can be found in Jesus Christ, however, in order to access the gifts of righteousness and holiness, both Justification & Sanctification, a believer must decide to make Christ's presence their dwelling place. The believer has access to these wonderful gifts so long as they abide in His Spirit.

However, they can not take these gifts with them if they choose to exit the presence of Christ by indulging in their own selfish & sinful desires. Such gifts are a part of Christ's very nature, that a human being does not have the ability to grasp, possess, or comprehend apart from His present company.

Just as the father eagerly awaits his son with open arms in the parable of the prodigal, grace is Christ's invitation to abide in Him. The Chistian life is an impossibility without Him.

Salvation places us IN CHRIST. However, it is a matter of choice to abide there.

For example, let's say you were drowning in rough seas. A captain of a nearby boat sees you struggling, rushes over, and pulls you out of the water. He then gives you a change of clothes and allows you stay in his personal quarters, eating from his own table, for the remainder of the voyage. He then tells you to stay off the deck because it possible that the waves could pull you back into the water where you might drown.

You are now faced with three options:

#1. trust the Captain and stay inside the boat, no self effort involved
#2. ignore the Captain, and jump back into dangerous waters
#3. flirt with disaster by going on deck on hoping that, if you do fall in, the captain will be there to rescue you once again

Now, common sense tells you that the easiest and safest option is to stay inside the boat. Biblical faith works similarly. Jesus saves us and accepts us into His Presence. He then warns us to avoid temptation because to indulge in sin is to venture outside of His Presence:

"But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin." ~ 1 John 3:5

However, in regards to salvation, most believers choose the equivalent of option three. They go about living their lives with little regard to what the Bible says, hoping God will bail them out in times of trouble. To them, God is nothing more than a life preserver, only needed in an emergency.

True, biblical faith not only saves us but also sanctifies us. One need not do anything to remain saved and sanctified but rest in Him by placing all trust in Him and what He teaches. It's when we take our fate into our own hands and follow the desires of our flesh that we stumble into sin.

Since you very hard press on the contention that saved souls can lose their salvation. Inform us all how you can be sure that you are saved, being saved and will end up saved. Where do you look for assurance for salvation other than to your own efforts and performance? I asked you a similar question before. No answer yet.

 

[tribesman]

Basically, all who believe that a truly saved soul can lose his salvation consequently believes that salvation is something that is merited, is conditioned on the work of the sinner and not on the person and work of Christ alone. Whatever they say to confuse anyone about this, this is the fact - in every case.

 

[Galatians2-20]

Since you very hard press on the contention that saved souls can lose their salvation. Inform us all how you can be sure that you are saved, being saved and will end up saved. Where do you look for assurance for salvation other than to your own efforts and performance? I asked you a similar question before. No answer yet.

Tribesman: Where do you look for assurance for salvation other than to your own efforts and performance?

Who said anything about performance? Read again.... and again if need be. Christ is my salvation. I can do nothing to save myself. I never answered your question because if you actually ready my posts instead of making assumptions, you would already have your answer.

Tribesman, I have always been under the assumption that you are a Calvinist or at least familiar. I find it rather peculiar that you don't recognize "Perserverance Of the Saints" when you see it.

 

[tribesman]

Tribesman: Where do you look for assurance for salvation other than to your own efforts and performance?

Who said anything about performance? Read again.... and again if need be. Christ is my salvation. I can do nothing to save myself.

Tribesman, I have always been under the assumption that you are a Calvinist or at least familiar. I find it rather peculiar that you don't recognize "Perserverance Of the Saints" when you see it.

You still do not answer my question and want to sidetrack discussion into other topics. You obviously believe you can lose your salvation. Tell us now how you are sure you can keep your salvation. I won't get you going on the "P" of TULIP, cause that's not what you are advocating.

 

[tribesman]

Btw Galatians2-20, I see that you are crossfire. So I can already tell where all attempts to discuss with you will end.

 

[Galatians2-20]

Tribesman, whether you want to believe it or not, I am a monergist. I have been for quite a while now. It's a shame that you are unwilling to recognize any form of monergism outside of your own particular brand.

 

[wattie]

I realize that most are taught that salvation and santification are seperate. Many are taught and believe that sanctification is a life long process involving works. Neither are true. Look no further than your own walk with the Lord and your own personal failures to testify of this fact.

Salvation is not a decision for Christ. Rather, salvation is life in Christ. Faith is not a belief in Christ. Rather, faith is actually knowing Christ and the assurance that He is true to his word. Sanctification is not a process where we learn to imitate Christ. Rather, sanctifiation is when we allow Christ to be Christ in and through us.

You can not be saved or sanctified apart from Christ. We, as humans, simply do not have the capacity to facilitate either gift apart from the presence of Christ in our lives.

What about Christ's indwelling our spirit.. our soul when we are given eternal life?

Does this count for nothing?

How do you 'leave' this kind of presence? It's inside your very body if you have been given eternal life!

Like trying to 'leave' something that has been put inside you.

How is sanctification not a life long process? Are you sanctified instantly? Remember-- this is being set apart.. conformed to Jesus..

How does that not occur over a life time?

 

[Kaycie]

Basically, all who believe that a truly saved soul can lose his salvation consequently believes that salvation is something that is merited, is conditioned on the work of the sinner and not on the person and work of Christ alone. Whatever they say to confuse anyone about this, this is the fact - in every case.

Grace is God's gift to those who actively obey Him. Nothing we could ever do or say can earn it, but God does not give this to those who will not take up their cross daily and follow Christ.

 

[Kerry]

It is the cross that saves us and it is the cross that delivers us and it is the cross that sets us free. Free from what? the power of sin.

 

[Galatians2-20]

Man can not or need not do anything to "secure" His salvation other than rest in the loving arms of our heavenly Father. My salvation is indeed eternally secure IN HIM. It is only when a believer attempts to take matters into their own hands, believing that their faith can somehow exist apart from Christ that they are in serious danger.

It is sad that some here seem to think that they have the power to possess salvation apart from Jesus Christ. Apparently, they believe that they can spit in our heavenly Father's face and trample all over salvation by doing whatever their flesh desires. Such "doctrine" is not new and has been around for many centuries:

"Hoodwinking therefore multitudes, he [Marcus, the Gnostic heretic] led on (into enormities) many (dupes) of this description who had become his disciples, by teaching them that they were prone, no doubt, to sin, but beyond the reach of danger, from the fact of their belonging to the perfect power."

(Hyppolytus of Rome, 170 – 235 AD, Refutation of all Heresies, Ante Nicene Fathers, Volume 5, Chapter 36)

Hyppolytus refuted a Gnostic heretic named Marcus, saying that not only did Marcus wrongly teach his disciples that they were "prone to sin" but he taught them that, even though they were prone to sin, they were "beyond the reach of danger" because they somehow belonged to God apart from exercising faith IN CHRIST. Sound familiar?

 

[Galatians2-20]

What about Christ's indwelling our spirit.. our soul when we are given eternal life?

Does this count for nothing?

How do you 'leave' this kind of presence? It's inside your very body if you have been given eternal life!

Like trying to 'leave' something that has been put inside you.

How is sanctification not a life long process? Are you sanctified instantly? Remember-- this is being set apart.. conformed to Jesus..

How does that not occur over a life time?

Salvation places me in Christ. I need not to do anything to secure my salvation but believe IN HIM. Everything needed to live the Christian life is found IN HIM. I need not do anything to secure my sanctification but exercise the faith that He has given me by trusting He will do what His word says He will do.

Yes, he lives in me and I in Him. Apart from Him I can do nothing. The more I bask in His glorious presence, the more he works in me and through me.

 

[Galatians2-20]

In and of myself I can do nothing. I do not have the ability to live or love like Christ. My only hope to do is to dwell in His glorious Presence, allowing His love to work in me and through me. He is my firm foundation, my rock, my shelter, my refuge.

I need not do anything. However, scripture plainly teaches that sin is separation from God. It is when I attempt to take FAITH into my own hands through disobedience, believing that I can somehow maintain my salvation apart from Him, that I am in jepardy.

I ask you all this: Since when is faith a work of man? All one need to do is trust in Christ, believing in every word He spoke. I need not do anything else! Nothing!

 

[tribesman]

Grace is God's gift to those who actively obey Him. Nothing we could ever do or say can earn it, but God does not give this to those who will not take up their cross daily and follow Christ.

Conditionalism again. God does not bestow such grace because of some merit in fallen man. God gives as He sees fit, as to whomsoever He wills it. Not the will of the sinner! The will of almighty God alone at work. Then obedience follows as a fruit - not a condition or prerequisite. All conditions for our salvation have been fulfilled in the person and work of Christ alone. Those who are yet ignorant about this saving truth are still going about to establish their own righteousness and are yet lost!

 

[forsha]

I have noticed in the forums, a whole lot of people are mixing these two together. I have heard people say along the lines of walking in the Spirit is getting eternal life.. or saying along the lines of not having eternal salvation until the day the die-- so the person's whole life is working toward gaining it or not. There are also a lot of other variations.

Biblically speaking, these are seperate. Justification is seperate from a believers walk with Jesus. Of course someone has to be justified first, saved eternally first, but the way someone lives out their faith does not affect the status of the justification in the first place.

Eternal salvation- it's from Jesus-- who keeps it by His power. It is His faith in the believer that keeps the believer secure. It's not the believer's own faith that keeps them or gives them eternal life.. because that goes up and down through their life.

So let's talk about the difference between eternal salvation and daily service.

Always bear in mind no verse stands by itself. So for eg 'faith without works is dead'.. context of this ISN'T about how someone is given eternal life.. but how someone is living out their faith.

Abraham being 'justified by faith' when he offered his son Isaac up.. this is not an example of someone being given eternal life.. but how he lived out his faith at a stage in his life. There is another verse of when he was mostly likely given eternal life.. and it wasn't when he offered up his son Issac.

'he who endureth to the end shall be saved' .. surrounding context is again about a group's walk with Jesus.. not about them being given eternal salvation. A group being 'saved' from persecution and trials.

There is a difference between being saved from trouble, hard times and persecution.. and being saved from hell, given eternal life.

Bible verses to come.

I am pleased to see that you do separate the salvation scriptures, understanding that there are salvations (deliverances) we receive here in this world. I think that you are a little confused as to when a person is eternally saved. John 6:37-41, Jesus died upon the cross for all of the sins of THOSE THAT GOD GAVE HIM to redeem them back to God and Jesus said he would not lose even one of them but would raise them up at the last day. On the cross was where and when they were saved eternally. I believe the scriptures to teach that all of his elect, when they are born a natural birth are born depraved and separated from God until they are born again. His elect as they live out their lives here ion earth, do continue to sin, but none of the sins will keep them out of heaven because they were all washed away at the cross, but I believe that when the elect sin that they do separate themselves from a fellowship with God until they confess and repent of that sin bringing about a deliverance or salvation.

 

[forsha]

For starters, man can do absolutely nothing to save himself so you can toss that "daily service" stuff out of the window. Salvation is purely relational. It's not about what you know or what you do but, rather, who you know and where you make your residence. Christ is our salvation, period. Coincidentally, Christ is also our sanctification, period.

Here's a little something I wrote earlier in the week that applies here:

A parent can love their child, protect their child, feed their child, clothe their child, and provide shelter for their child but unless that child decides to reside with his or her parent, they can not reap the benefits of living with that parent. Salvation in Jesus Christ works exactly the same way.

The Bible teaches that everything necessary to live a Godly life can be found in Jesus Christ, however, in order to access the gifts of righteousness and holiness, both Justification & Sanctification, a believer must decide to make Christ's presence their dwelling place. The believer has access to these wonderful gifts so long as they abide in His Spirit.

However, they can not take these gifts with them if they choose to exit the presence of Christ by indulging in their own selfish & sinful desires. Such gifts are a part of Christ's very nature, that a human being does not have the ability to grasp, possess, or comprehend apart from His present company.

Just as the father eagerly awaits his son with open arms in the parable of the prodigal, grace is Christ's invitation to abide in Him. The Chistian life is an impossibility without Him.

Even though we are saved eternally by what Christ did for us on the cross, we still do sin as we live out our lives here on earth. these sins, because they are forgiven on the cross, will never take away our eternal salvation, but they will cause us to lose our fellowship with God, until we repent.

 

[forsha]

Since you very hard press on the contention that saved souls can lose their salvation. Inform us all how you can be sure that you are saved, being saved and will end up saved. Where do you look for assurance for salvation other than to your own efforts and performance? I asked you a similar question before. No answer yet.

I would like to try and show how and when you were saved eternally. If you have a desire, and can discern spiritual things is evidence that you have been saved eternally, When you were saved was by Christ's death upon the cross, John 6:37-40, Jesus said that he would not lose even one of those that his Father gave him. That's eternal security!