Who was Jesus Praying to in the Bible?

ForthAngel · Jan 29, 2015

One being, 3 different "parts". Calling the Trinity three separate beings is polytheistic. We know our God is One in being and in essence. Same Mind, same Spirit, same Word. This is my issue with the Trinity doctrine. It fails to define itself properly and comes off as polytheism.

I believe Christ to be the literal Word of God. God the Father is the Mind. The Holy Spirit is like His Arm. The Mind thinks, the Word speaks, and the Arm acts. All the same God, 3 distinct and separate (yet unified) parts.

newbirth · Jan 29, 2015

ForthAngel said:

One being, 3 different "parts". Calling the Trinity three separate beings is polytheistic. We know our God is One in being and in essence. Same Mind, same Spirit, same Word. This is my issue with the Trinity doctrine. It fails to define itself properly and comes off as polytheism.

I believe Christ to be the literal Word of God. God the Father is the Mind. The Holy Spirit is like His Arm. The Mind thinks, the Word speaks, and the Arm acts. All the same God, 3 distinct and separate (yet unified) parts.

the only problem with that is ..there is One God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ....

ForthAngel · Jan 29, 2015

newbirth said:

Totally agree. What I propose doesn't undermine this truth.

Jeff_56 · Jan 29, 2015

as you said 'you mind is fried'... and believe it or not, that is better than not fried ! or, in other words,
it's
better
to
not accept what people say, (be fried instead !!!!!!!)

when
what
people
say is contrary to what yahweh says, when what people say is contrary to his word/ torah/ scripture.....

Elijah19 said:

Your first response to this question is going to be, "He was praying to God, obviously, who else?" So I know this sounds like an odd question, but I mean it from a completely different angle than you might have thought.

Consider this for a second here... really...

We as Christians believe (by majority, and myself included) that Jesus is God.

Yet Jesus prayed to God, and even asked God for His will instead of his own in Luke 22:42!

"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." ---Luke 22:42

So basically, according to this verse, Jesus is praying to his God, and asking for his separate and higher will. Yet Jesus is supposed to be God in my book! If Jesus is God, then why is He praying to God? Is He praying to Himself? And why is he asking God for His separate and higher will, yet not his own, if he is God?

If one thing is made painfully clear from this verse, it is that Jesus believed the person he was talking to to be greater, higher, and wiser than Himself - as well as possessing a separate and higher will altogether. But I believe that Jesus is God, so how can I reconcile my belief with the verse which seems to refute it.

Is Jesus talking to himself? The more I read it the verse, the more my belief in the Trinity seems to look less and less Biblical. Note that I am not trying to refute the belief in the Trinity here, but this is the one verse in the Bible that shakes my faith in it's scriptural authenticity. Either Jesus was talking to Himself and experiencing a split personality, or He was talking to Someone else. What's going on in this verse? Who was He talking to? It's obviously not Himself because the Entity has a separate opinion (according to Jesus), yet it has to be Himself because Jesus is God and there's no one else to pray to.

Now my mind is fried...

prove-all · Jan 29, 2015

and the Word was with God

The same was in the beginning with God.

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

-the Holy Spirit Is the Power of God , given to who he wants.

15He hath made the earth (by his power), he hath established the world by (his wisdom),
and hath stretched out the heaven by (his understanding).

5I have made the earth, the man and the beast that are upon the ground, (by my great power)
and by my outstretched arm, (and have given it) (unto whom it seemed meet unto me).

-Jesus had Gods power with no measure, given from conception.

15For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord,
and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink;
and he shall be (filled with) the Holy Ghost, (even from his mother's womb).

34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God:
(for God giveth) (not the Spirit by measure unto him).

14And Jesus returned in (the power) of the Spirit into Galilee (Luk 4:14)
Behold my servant, whom I uphold; (mine elect), in whom my soul delighteth;

I have put (my spirit) upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

- Jesus called the Son of God, not the son of the holy spirit.

35And the angel answered and said unto her, (The Holy Ghost) shall come upon thee,

and (the power of the Highest) shall overshadow thee: therefore also
that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called (the Son of God).

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, - God is greater then Jesus, .

And the Child grew and became strong in spirit, filled with wisdom;
and the grace of God was upon Him

"My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28).

“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. (mark10:18)

Jesus Christ came to Earth to declare the Father (John 1:18)

Jesus Christ said He came specifically to “reveal” the Father(Matthew 11:27; Luke 10:22).

“I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him” (John 8:26).

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,

he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.(John 12:49)

the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me" (John 14:24).

Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,

The Son can (do nothing of himself), but what he (seeth the Father do):
for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise (John 5:19)

- Christ Jesus calls God his God, and our God and father.
but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto (my Father), and your Father;
and to (my God), and (your God). (John 20:17 KJV)

- church changed nature of the Son of God and his relationship to God the Father
First Council of Nicaea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and establishing uniform observance of the date of Easter,

(John 7:29) I (Jesus) know him (GOD), because I am a representative
from him, and that One (GOD) sent me.”

(Matthew 3:17) Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said:
“This is (my Son), the beloved, whom (I have approved).

(1 Timothy 2:5) For there is (one God), and (one mediator)
between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him,
it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall (the Son)
also himself be subject unto (him) that put all things under him,
that God may be all in all.

we know the thrones God and the Lamb have now and in the future,
where is the Holy spirits throne if it is a third person?

and why didn't any of the N.T. episetles greet the spirit ?

like they address the father and the Son in there letters,
that would be rude not to give mention to a third god.

fredjames · Jan 30, 2015

newbirth said:

Why are we then baptized in the name of the FATHER, SON and the HOLY SPIRIT?

Why not just one name 'GOD'?

This proves the term, 'Trinity', who reigns in all believer's lives as 'GOD' upon baptism and they are 'one' in our testimony.

Even one of HIS disciples ask HIM to show GOD to them and what was HIS answer in correction revelation?

And that disciple worshiped HIM, saying;

"My LORD my GOD."

Separate three, but only in person, but in manifestation to all creation only as 'one' and is 'GOD'.

As it is written;

"Everything must be said and done in the name of 'JESUS'."

In Prophecy, HIS actual name was, 'IMMANUEL'

JESUS will sit in the judgement Throne as 'GOD' to judge everyone soon.

Jeff_56 · Jan 30, 2015

who is "we" ??? the ekklesia NEVER immersed in the name of father, son and holly spirit.... they ALWAYS immersed in the name above every name - yahshua (jesus).

the false church, the harlot of the world described in revelation of yahshua to john in the bible - they do what they do contrary to yahweh's word, contrary to yahshua, contrary to and opposed to yahweh and oppressing and murdering yahweh's people.

fredjames · Jan 30, 2015

Elijah19 said:

Example, your body and it's members/body parts, are they not fixed together and function as 'one'. Is any one of them function on their own, without the other one knowing or feeling?

When you knock your right hand against something, do you instruct your left to nurse. Or naturally it acts without instructing because they are 'united' as 'one' and 'a body', with many parts. Even you separate the least important one from the rest, it will never be 'one' and 'whole'.

Blessings of discernment of Spiritual knowledge in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

Reformed_Baptist · Jan 30, 2015

Why are trying to reinvent the wheel here?

The church has had a pretty good explanation of the trinity from early days, it can be summed up in this way - God is one being, but there are one person who is this God. The father is God, the son is God and the Spirit is God. So, when Jesus prayed he prayed to the father. He did not pray to a being that greater, wiser or higher then he though as the OP suggests because he is co-equal to the Father in every way.

Reformed_Baptist · Jan 30, 2015

Jeff_56 said:

Didn't Jesus tell us to baptise in "name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" MAtt 28:19

The Didache, an early Christian writing demonstrates that at least some early Christians took this text as there example, ch 7 para 1 reads:

Concerning baptism, baptize in this way. After you have spoken all these things, "baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit," in running water.

Are you suggesting that those who baptise in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit are a false church?

Elijah19 · Jan 30, 2015

How is Jesus co-equal to God when Jesus prays and submits to God? By definition, praying to someone and asking their will over your own sets you below them by default. Also, why would Jesus say "thy will be done, not mine" and submit to God if they were of equal status and the same person... doesn't make logical sense.

fredjames · Jan 30, 2015

Jeff_56 said:

'We' is referring to those who believe to what is written and taught by the HOLY SPIRIT in 'whole', especially the New Covenant and act in faith according to them and bear much fruits and your fruits must 'abide'.

Why then your attention deviates to the teachings/doctrine of 'men', regarding the already established and written and taught Gospel?

Then boldly because of love, go and tell them to 'repent' from their 'heresy', rather than like cowards 'gossiping' about it behind their backs.

First of all, are you a murderer like them, neglecting the Gospel to the lost and hate your brother?

fredjames · Jan 30, 2015

Elijah19 said:

Sadly you are acting like Nicodemus, asking JESUS about being born again. JESUS said to him, in order for someone to understand the Kingdom of GOD, one need to be born from above and on and on. JESUS did not sit there and persuade him to try to understand.

If you do not get it for now, you do not get it, for the FATHER have not revealed them to you. Please do not read the HOLY BIBLE and stop at one passage and contemplate using your carnal wisdom of logic and make sense. Pray to GOD in the name of JESUS for understanding, and patiently continue reading the other passages as well and allow the HOLY SPIRIT to compile them together for your understanding about the whole written story, in sound doctrine knowledge of the Kingdom of GOD believer's faith.

Faith is about believing by the Help of the 'Trinity' manifestation in a believer, as in the names required in faith action, they were baptized and not doubt at all.

As it is written, 'Those who doubt are like ocean waves, being tossed here and there by the wind'.

JESUS is talking to you as how HE would have spoke to Nicodemus.

JESUS said to those who came after HIM and also to you that;

"You cannot come onto me unless the FATHER makes you come."

Others who witness this, first examine yourselves whether you doubt in other things of the LORD. Do not use this message to Elijah19 as a 'platform' to further 'run him down' nor others.

As it is written and now again as a reminder and a stir up of memory to all individual believers that;

"Workout your own Salvation in fear and trembling."

Tintin · Jan 30, 2015

Elijah19 said:

Your first response to this question is going to be, "He was praying to God, obviously, who else?" So I know this sounds like an odd question, but I mean it from a completely different angle than you might have thought.

Consider this for a second here... really...

We as Christians believe (by majority, and myself included) that Jesus is God.

Yet Jesus prayed to God, and even asked God for His will instead of his own in Luke 22:42!

"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." ---Luke 22:42

So basically, according to this verse, Jesus is praying to his God, and asking for his separate and higher will. Yet Jesus is supposed to be God in my book! If Jesus is God, then why is He praying to God? Is He praying to Himself? And why is he asking God for His separate and higher will, yet not his own, if he is God?

If one thing is made painfully clear from this verse, it is that Jesus believed the person he was talking to to be greater, higher, and wiser than Himself - as well as possessing a separate and higher will altogether. But I believe that Jesus is God, so how can I reconcile my belief with the verse which seems to refute it.

Is Jesus talking to himself? The more I read it the verse, the more my belief in the Trinity seems to look less and less Biblical. Note that I am not trying to refute the belief in the Trinity here, but this is the one verse in the Bible that shakes my faith in it's scriptural authenticity. Either Jesus was talking to Himself and experiencing a split personality, or He was talking to Someone else. What's going on in this verse? Who was He talking to? It's obviously not Himself because the Entity has a separate opinion (according to Jesus), yet it has to be Himself because Jesus is God and there's no one else to pray to.

Now my mind is fried...

I don't know why something like this would shake your faith. For me, it makes our Triune God all that more reasonable and tangible.

Elin · Jan 30, 2015

Elijah19 said:

Your first response to this question is going to be, "He was praying to God, obviously, who else?" So I know this sounds like an odd question, but I mean it from a completely different angle than you might have thought.

Consider this for a second here... really...

We as Christians believe (by majority, and myself included) that Jesus is God.

Yet Jesus prayed to God, and even asked God for His will instead of his own in Luke 22:42!

"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." ---Luke 22:42

So basically, according to this verse, Jesus is praying to his God, and asking for his separate and higher will. Yet Jesus is supposed to be God in my book! If Jesus is God, then why is He praying to God? Is He praying to Himself? And why is he asking God for His separate and higher will, yet not his own, if he is God?

If one thing is made painfully clear from this verse, it is that Jesus believed the person he was talking to to be greater, higher, and wiser than Himself - as well as possessing a separate and higher will altogether. But I believe that Jesus is God, so how can I reconcile my belief with the verse which seems to refute it.

Is Jesus talking to himself? The more I read it the verse, the more my belief in the Trinity seems to look less and less Biblical. Note that I am not trying to refute the belief in the Trinity here, but this is the one verse in the Bible that shakes my faith in it's scriptural authenticity. Either Jesus was talking to Himself and experiencing a split personality, or He was talking to Someone else. What's going on in this verse? Who was He talking to? It's obviously not Himself because the Entity has a separate opinion (according to Jesus), yet it has to be Himself because Jesus is God and there's no one else to pray to.

Now my mind is fried...

Jesus was human, as well as divine.

He was praying to his Father, who is Father of the Son, who Jesus is.

The Son is not the Father, the Father is not the Son.
And the Holy Spirit is the spirit of both of them.

Marian29 · Jan 30, 2015

The Bible says clearly the characteristics of each one of the Trinity. The Son is the verb that became flesh. The Father is the alfa and omega. The Holy Spirit testifyes the creation and the Holy Scriptures are inspired by him. All of them are connected. The Bible also says Jesus would come back to the Father and sit by His side. The Bible explains itself.

krow · Jan 31, 2015

Elijah19 said:

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are of the same one essence, but are different persons. They all can claim the names of God and speak as God. I'm thinking this webpage might explain it better, I had come across a better one but couldn't find it again, but read this.

What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?

Another perhaps better explanation can be found in C.S Lewis book Mere Christianity if i remember right. I have it on my book shelf I may go find the part of it that discusses the Trinity in a bit and summarize it in a nut shell as well, if that page doesn't really help you. I highly recommend you read that book by C.S Lewis, it is a very good book for a Christian to read.

krow · Jan 31, 2015

Elijah19 said:

I found full text online!

http://christiangrads.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Mere-Christianity-The-Book.pdf

read the part book IV or first steps in the doctrine of the Trinity, it should help bro.

krow · Jan 31, 2015

Elijah19 said:

Jesus was coequal defnitely before He became a man, but had to lower Himself for awhile but He never stopped being God, but He had to show humanity what it means to be the ultimate servant and live a sinless life. What the first Adam could not do, which started all the problems with the world. This is why Christ is also called the Second Adam. To be both fully God and fully man would require some sort of servitude to the Father would it not? Yet, He is God Himself which is why He also told the Jews "Before Abraham was born I am...". Now Jesus is back where He was before the world began, sitting at the right hand of God the Father in Heaven till He returns. I posted a link to Mere Christianity in the earlier posts for you it talks about the Trinity some, maybe it will help a tad, along with the other webpage.

After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. [SUP]4 [/SUP]I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

GaryA · Jan 31, 2015

Food for thought:

GRA said:

... "as I see it" ...

( Disclaimer: What follows is merely an attempt to describe my conceptualization, reasoning, and understanding of the true nature of God - according to the scriptures - with specific regard to 'identity'. )

Genesis 1:

[SUP]1[/SUP] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

The phrase 'In the beginning' is referring to our beginning - 'time and space', as we know it.

It is talking about the beginning of the heaven and the earth - when God created the heaven and the earth.

How did He create it?

He created it "by the Word of His mouth" -- He 'spoke' it into existence.

God said - and it was...

Now -- understand that - because of the true nature of God - the very Word that He speaks is literally 'alive'.

This is because God is 'life'. All life comes from God. All that comes from God is alive.

It is impossible for anything to "come out" from God and not be 'alive'.

This is the true nature of the existence of God.

This 'Word' - that "comes out" from God - that is 'alive' -- is an "extension" of Himself -- the "outward expression" of Himself to His creation.

John 1:

[SUP]1[/SUP] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [SUP]2[/SUP] The same was in the beginning with God.

This "outward expression" of God to His creation -- which "was with God" - which "was God" - which "was in the beginning with God" -- was fully alive, and was fully God.

The Word did not "come into existence" - but, rather - "always was" - because of what is being said in verse 2 -- the Word already "was" at the beginning...

What these verses do not say is - that the 'Word' was 'Almighty God [ the Father ]' - in the "full personification" sense.

The Word was God; however, the Word was not [ "the actual", full, complete, "all-that-He-is" ] 'God the Father' Himself.

In the "full Godship" sense - yes.
In the "full personification" sense - no.

In terms of 'identity', this allows for a separate 'entity' that is [ fully ] God without being [ "the exacting original" ] 'God the Father'.

( "This is vitally important to the plan of salvation, as well as some other things involving the 'eternality' of God. And, not to mention, how He can have a Son without being His own Father..." )

In other words - there IS a separation - such that they are not "exactly identically" the same.

The separation exists in the difference between "God Himself" and "the outward expression of Himself" to His creation. Both are actually God. The difference is a matter of finite identity. The former is the Almighty 'personage' ( 'God the Father' ) - who has never been seen by man. ( Please understand the context -- in the "full personification" sense - not in the "effectual sense" of "the back parts" in Exodus 33:23 -- see John 1:18 below... ) The latter is the Almighty 'manifest' ( 'God the Word' ) - revealed to be seen by man.

God 'unseen' and God 'manifest' -- same God.

God the Father maintains His "rightful just 'private' dignified solemn sacred majestic holy existence"...
God the Word manifests His "rightful just 'public' dignified solemn sacred majestic holy existence"...

Also, the scope of the Word in this context goes beyond the text of the Bible ( which is called "the Word of God" ) - and includes "all things ever shown forth" in the "outward expression" of God to all of His creation.

So then - the Word is "the complete total-sum full living manifestation of the outward expression of God to His creation"...

The phrase 'In the beginning' means the exact same thing as it does in Genesis 1:1 -- and, does not represent the "beginning" of God, the Word, or Jesus.

John 1:

[SUP]3[/SUP] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

God the Word was the "means" or the "mechanism" - through which and by which - God the Father, "by the Word of His mouth", made everything.

It is perfectly legitimate and acceptable to say that God the Father created everything.

It is perfectly legitimate and acceptable to say that God the Word created everything.

Both of these statements are true and in perfect harmony.

John 1:

[SUP]4[/SUP] In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

[SUP]10[/SUP] He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

[SUP]14[/SUP] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

[SUP]18[/SUP] No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Jesus was born into the world as a person - body, soul, and spirit. His 'body' was human flesh. His 'soul' was the Word. His 'spirit' was the Holy Spirit.

At His conception, His body was "new"; however, His soul and spirit already existed together before that time - as the Word.

The Word does not have a beginning, and has always been with the Father. ( John 1:1 )

Jesus the person -- the Godhead bodily ( Colossians 2:9 ) -- had a beginning ( through human conception by the Holy Spirit ); however, the Word ( "Jesus the person, minus His body" ) always was...

From verse 14:

The Word ( already existing ) was made ( took on the form of ) flesh ( human conception and birth ).

The sonship of Jesus rests totally in the virgin birth. There is no such thing as 'the Son of God' outside of the bodily existence of Jesus. The Word was not 'the Son of God' before, or outside of, the birth of Jesus --- 'Almighty God' is the Father, 'Jesus Christ' is the Son.

Now -- understand that - after Jesus was raised from the dead, with His 'glorified' body, He ( being God ) could ( I believe ) appear to Abraham, for example, in that very same resurrected body -- because, He could "step inside and outside of time" and "make appearances" whenever He wished.

As for the 'Trinity'...

I believe in "the 'triune' nature" of God. I do not tend to think of Him in the full sense of "three persons" -- because -- a 'person' ( in the full sense ) is generally thought of as having body, soul, and spirit. Of course, God the Father - Who is 'Soul and Spirit' - and has no body - is thought of as a person ( in the full sense ). However, the Holy Spirit is never thought of as having any "part" of a person ( in the full sense ) except 'spirit'. So - while all three might be considered a "person" - strictly by virtue of their 'spirit' ( which happens to be the Holy Spirit for all three ) - each of the three is not a "person" ( in the full sense ) - having body, soul, and spirit.

So then -- whether you want to use the word "person" or not -- there are three, which are the same God:

[TABLE="width: 500, align: left"]
[TR]
[TD]God the Word / Jesus[/TD]
[TD]body, soul, and spirit[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]God the Father[/TD]
[TD]soul and spirit[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]God the Holy Spirit[/TD]
[TD]spirit[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Confusing, isn't it?

Who was Jesus Praying to in the Bible?

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