Who was Jesus Praying to in the Bible?

VCO · Jan 31, 2015

☝t<><

It helps if you make sure that you are born again, before you try to understand deep spiritual Truths about GOD.

1 Corinthians 2:10-14 (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

That is the only way you will ever gain a deep spiritual understanding of the Holy Trinity.

However, I will try to simplify it for you, to where you can begin to understand; and after you break down mourning over your sinfulness, and willingly surrender complete control of your life to Jesus Christ as LORD, meaning MASTER; you will understand a LOT MORE.

Most people who bring this question up, have either forgotten or have never been taught that Jesus Christ is both HUMAN and GOD in the Flesh.

John 1:1 (NIV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 (NIV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

2 Corinthians 5:19 (NKJV) [SUP]19 [/SUP] that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

The HUMAN part of Jesus was purely HUMAN, while at the same time the Spirit in Christ was purely GOD HIMSELF; however GOD is OMNIPRESENT, therefore at no time could the totality of GOD cease to be Omnipresent and squeeze into the body of Christ.

In a nut shell, the Human part of Jesus (primarily as an example for us) prayed to the Spiritual part of Himself, especially the Part of Himself that functioned as the Father or Shotcaller of the GODhead. Trinity is NOT three Gods, but rather ONLY ONE GOD with a three fold nature of Father and Son and Holy Spirit:

Isaiah 43:3 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For I Yahweh your God, the Holy One of Israel, and your Savior, give Egypt as a ransom for you, Cush and Seba in your place.

Isaiah 43:10-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Meand understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.

Luke 2:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] But the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

CHRIST THEN is part of GOD, and the ONLY reason that I say part of GOD, is that I am counting only SPIRIT WHO is within the physical human body of Jesus Christ. When I consider that the SPIRIT in CHRIST is the OMNIPRESENT GOD of the Universe and Heaven, THEN I have to admit that when I do not stop at the skin of Jesus, then HE CERTAINLY IS THE TOTALITY OF GOD. REMEMBER, there are NOT three SPIRITS that make up GOD, but rather ONE SPIRIT Who has a THREE-FOLD NATURE.

Colossians 2:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

I mentioned that the FATHER was the part of GOD who's primary function is to be the Shotcaller of the GODhead, therefore I must also mention:

The SON is the part of GOD who's primary function has always been to physically carry out the will of the FATHER.

The Holy Spirit then is the part of GOD who's primary function is to enable us to do the will of the FATHER, starting with, BELIEVING IN HIM.

Elijah19 · Jan 31, 2015

I am born again, dude. Romans 10:9 says "That if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God rose him from the dead, you will be saved."

I have fulfilled both requirements of the verse, and the Bible does not lie. So by definition I am born again. It's not my salvation I'm worried about here. No need for concern. It's just that Luke 22:42 poses a significant problem for the doctrine of the Trinity. All I ask is that people show me how it actually doesn't, if they can.

gotime · Jan 31, 2015

Elijah19 said:

It helps to realize that Jesus while He is God took on humanity and thus lowered himself in order to save us. In His human state He needed wisdom from His Father and was weaker than His Father.

Php 2:5 Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;
Php 2:8 and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross.

Most people get stuck on that one, they forget that Jesus made himself one of us in order to save us.

VCO · Jan 31, 2015

Elijah19 said:

☝t<><

It is NOT a Confession if you did not Submit to HIM totally in your heart as LORD, which means MASTER, prior to saying it as a Confession. No genuine surrender to HIM, only makes it a Profession and not a Confession. Nor do I believe there is genuine Salvation apart from a broken, contrite heart that mourns over one's own utter sinfulness.

Matthew 5:4 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Those who mourn are blessed, for they will be comforted.

Psalm 51:17 (ASV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: A broken and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Revelation 2:5-6 (ISV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Therefore, remember how far you have fallen. Repent, and do the works you did at first. If you don't, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But this is to your credit: You hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

Psalm 34:18 (HCSB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] The LORD is near the brokenhearted; He saves those crushed in spirit.

Isaiah 66:2 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] My hand made all these things, and so they all came into being. ⌊This is⌋ the LORD’s declaration. I will look favorably on this kind of person: one who is humble, submissive in spirit, and trembles at My word.

Isaiah 57:15 (ESV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For thus says the One who is high and lifted up, who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: “I dwell in the high and holy place, and also with him who is of a contrite and lowly spirit, to revive the spirit of the lowly, and to revive the heart of the contrite.

con·trite

Click to expand...

No, I do not believe there is genuine Salvation apart from a genuine sense of guilt over one's own sinfulness. When the LORD broke me, there was a tremendous sense of GUILT that washed over me, because of my utter sinfulness, after a third attempt at suicide. I was weeping like a baby, and begging for HIS FORGIVENESS.

NO, I do not believe in Easy Believism's false gospel of just saying Jesus is Lord and acknowledging who He is. EVEN THE DEMONS believe that much.

Mark 5:6-13 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Seeing Jesus from a distance, he ran up and bowed down before Him;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] and shouting with a loud voice, he said, "What business do we have with each other, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God, do not torment me!"
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For He had been saying to him, "Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!"
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And He was asking him, "What is your name?" And he said to Him, "My name is Legion; for we are many."
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And he began to implore Him earnestly not to send them out of the country.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now there was a large herd of swine feeding nearby on the mountain.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] The demons implored Him, saying, "Send us into the swine so that we may enter them."
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Jesus gave them permission. And coming out, the unclean spirits entered the swine; and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea, about two thousand of them; and they were drowned in the sea.

Easy Believism's FALSE GOSPEL, would make those 2000 demons saved.

You asked to be shown that Luke 22:42 does not contradict the Doctrine of the Trinity.

Luke 22:41-42 (NASB)
[SUP]41 [/SUP] And He withdrew from them about a stone's throw, and He knelt down and began to pray,
[SUP]42 [/SUP] saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."

I already answered that, but I will repeat what I already explained:\

YOUR ASSUMPTION, ignores that FACT that Jesus really was ALSO HUMAN, as well as GOD in the flesh.

THAT WAS ON PURPOSE, because HE being GOD in the flesh, KNEW EXACTLY THE KIND OF PAIN AND SUFFERING HE REQUIRED TO PAY FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD. (The ONLY sin ANYONE will go to Hell for, is rejecting Jesus as LORD and Master of your life, choosing instead remain lord of your own life. That is blaspheming the work of the Holy Spirit, who tries to get everyone to Believe and Receive JESUS as LORD.) Therefore, HE created in the womb of Mary, a body that part of HIMSELF could enter and THEREBY PAY THAT PRICE HIMSELF. During that time HE set aside HIS rightful place as DEITY, so that HE could feel all of that pain that was NEEDED TO PAY THE PRICE FOR OUR SINS. All verse 42 proves is that JESUS was ALSO human. IT also proves that the SON is NOT the Shotcaller, and that the Son always submits to the will of the FATHER. For example: The Father willed CREATION, and it was the SON who physically Created everything, visible and invisible.

Hebrews 2:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

John 17:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with that glory I had with You before the world existed.

Reformed_Baptist · Jan 31, 2015

Elijah19 said:

My wife is instructed in scripture to submit to me - does that mean she is not my equal? No, of course not, she is comparable to me! The submission of the Son is something he willing did for our sakes, as Phil 1:6-9 makes very clear, it is a submission of economy not ontology.

And here we see at least part of the problem - trinitarians are not allowed to define the terms they use, God is one being and three persons - and until you dig into the ontological distinction between 'being' and 'person' you are not qualified to make statements like 'doesn't make logical sense' because the reason it makes no sense to you is that you have not grasped what is being said.

The reality is clear. Scripture identifies the Father, the son, and the Spirit as each being God and the bible teaches that there is only one God!

newbirth · Jan 31, 2015

Reformed_Baptist said:

but scripture is clear there is one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ....Jesus is the only way to the Father and the only one who came out from the Father...Jesus created all things...the Word created all things....the Spirit created all things....we can conclude there are more than one ways to God and that Jesus ,the Word,the Spirit are all different entities...or that they are one and the same

Eva1218 · Jan 31, 2015

JESUS is Praying to the FATHER. Keep in mind the GODHEAD BODY FATHER SON HOLY SPIRIT.

Blessings!!!!!!!

Reformed_Baptist · Jan 31, 2015

newbirth said:

I am sorry but there are just too many nonsequiturs in that post to follow and meaningfully comment on! So, I will just say that John 14:6 makes it clear that there is only one way to God as Father - if you try any other way you will only meet him as your judge!

Titus 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ

Have you ever heard of Granville Sharpe? If you have you will understand the significance of these two nouns being used to describe the person of Jesus! That are both speaking about Jesus Christ!

VCO · Jan 31, 2015

newbirth said:

ONE LORD, YES, but you will not like WHO it says that one LORD is:

Exodus 34:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] The LORD came down in a cloud, stood with him there, and proclaimed ⌊His⌋ name Yahweh.

Exodus 15:3 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] The LORD is a warrior; Yahweh is His name.

Deuteronomy 14:24 (HCSB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] But if the distance is too great for you to carry it, since the place where Yahweh your God chooses to put His name is too far away from you and since the LORD your God has blessed you,

Isaiah 43:10-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.

Luke 2:11 (NKJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Please REPENT!

Elijah19 · Jan 31, 2015

Look, I understand what you are saying about repentance and guilt, and I agree with you 100%, VCO. My faith is not "Believism" though, but genuine repentance and remission of sin. I have not only professed Jesus, but made Him master of my life as you said. Who are you to determine my Salvation? How could you know, without ever even meeting me, say that I have not been truly saved? Do you mean to say that I am not saved, VCO? Who set you as Heavenly Judge?

Unless what you are saying that all True Christians who find the Trinity a suspicious topic are just fakers, I though my question about Trinity was quite a smart one. I just want to believe the right thing, nothing more.

Elin · Jan 31, 2015

Elijah19 said:

How so?

Jesus is equal with God (Php 2:6; Jn 1:1, 5:18),
something he did not cling to, but emptied himself (laid aside his glory),
became man, and humbled himself, in obedience to his Father, to die as a criminal (Php 1:6-8),
for the sins of men.

That the humanity of Jesus, which is where pain and sentient feeling take place,
should dread abandonment by God (Mt 27:46; as in Dt 31:17) in reproach (Heb 13:13),
as well as the power of Satan being unleashed against him (Lk 22:53b)
as he bore the sins of men in his own body on the cross (1Pe 2:24),
that in sheer anguish he should be overwhelmed with sorrow
to the point of dying (Mt 26:38; Ps 88:3)) and even sweating blood (Lk 22:44),
so that an angel had to strengthen him (Lk 22:43) for the task,
poses no problem to the Trinity.

It is all plain and understandable in the word of God.

P.S.: I think "dude" should be in the NT.

Elin · Jan 31, 2015

Elijah19 said:

Scripture declares that he is (Php 2:6-8).
That settles the matter.

The Trinity is not about human logic.

It's about divine wisdom.

A divine wisdom in which God empties himself of his glory and becomes a man (Php 2:6-8),
possessing two natures, a divine nature and a human nature,
making Jesus fully God and fully man (Jn 1:1, 13) at the same time.

As the divine Son of God, he is submissive to the Father,
and as the human Jesus of Nazareth, he is likewise submissive to the Father.

It's not complicated.

dcontroversal · Jan 31, 2015

To his Father...the Heavenly Father.......!

Elin · Jan 31, 2015

newbirth said:

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit also comes out from the Father (Jn 15:26).
The NT states that the Holy Spirit likewise comes out from Jesus (Gal 4:6).

Jesus is the Word (Jn 1:1, 13).

Jesus is the Spirit (2Co 3: 17, 18).

Not according to Jesus and Peter (Jn 14:6; Ac 4:12).

There is only one entity (being), God, in three separate persons.

Yep. . .the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one entity (being), composed of three separate persons.

Joidevivre · Jan 31, 2015

I just always understood it as when God came to earth in human form as Jesus, Jesus at the time was 100% man (having given up His divinity). As Joseph said, God split Himself. But when Jesus was on earth, he was only man and there was a separation just as you could separate an egg yolk from the white (yet still an egg).

God came to earth participating completely in our nature for many reasons. One was to show us what is possible with humans when the Holy Spirit indwells them as He did fully in Jesus after His baptism. Even Jesus said that someday we, who believe, would do the same works (through the same Holy Spirit who indwelt Him). Another reason was to become our High Priest, having suffered through the same temptations and completely knows our nature.

Jesus said many things referring to the fact that He was God. He prayed that we would all be one as He and the Father were one. Yet, He also said that everything He did while on earth, He was only following what the Father was showing Him. (Separation while still one entity). The father abandoned Him for a time when He carried our sins to the cross as our sacrificial lamb.

This has been stated differently and better throughout this thread - but it never had to fit into my understanding. I like the mystery.

Butch5 · Jan 31, 2015

Elijah19 said:

Hi Elijah19,

Don't fret and don't let your faith be shaken. The answer lies in clearing up a logical contradiction that is taught today as the Trinity. Typically the Trinity is taught as there is one God and He consists of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. That is not what the Trinity is in the Scriptures, that is a logical fallacy. One being cannot be composed of three beings. The Apostle Paul said,

5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. (1Co 8:5-6 NKJ)

He said, 'for us there is one God, the Father.' This is what the church believed for at least the until the fourth century. It wasn't until the fourth century that the idea of one God consisting of three co-equal, co-eternal beings came into the church. The apostles creed and the Nicene creed both say I believe in one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Son of God, begotten before time began. He is not equal to the Father, the Father is the ultimate authority.

So, how can Jesus be God then and how can there be a Trinity? Jesus is God in the sense that He is of the same nature or essence as the Father. Consider an example, a father has a son. The son is of the same essence or nature as his father. The son is more nor no less human than that father is. Likewise, Jesus, being the Son of God, came out of God, therefore He is of the same essence as God. Whatever God is Jesus is. If there is substance that is God, Jesus is of this substance.
The word "theos" God, means deity or divinity. The Father is deity, therefore the Son is deity. We do the sane thing as humans, we say the king is royalty. Well, a son born to the king is also royalty. So, can you how Jesus can be separate and subordinate to the Father and yet still be God in substance? Lets look at John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (Joh 1:1 NKJ)

Now let's replace the word God with it's definition and see if the passage is clearer.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Deity and the Word was Deity.

I think in this it is relatively easy to understand how Jesus can be God (Deity) and yet be with God (the Father Deity)

One thing that confuses many is that the word God is used two different ways in the Scriptures. It used as a name for the Father and it is used show the Deity of the Father and the Son.

I hope this helps. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

Elin · Jan 31, 2015

Butch5 said:

Only one being, in whom are three persons.

The Son is submissive to the Father, and the Holy Spirit is the spirit of both of them.

Butch5 · Jan 31, 2015

Elin said:

That's the logical contradiction I explained. There is no such thing.

Tintin · Jan 31, 2015

Joidevivre said:

I just always understood it as when God came to earth in human form as Jesus, Jesus at the time was 100% man (having given up His divinity). As Joseph said, God split Himself. But when Jesus was on earth, he was only man and there was a separation just as you could separate an egg yolk from the white (yet still an egg).

God came to earth participating completely in our nature for many reasons. One was to show us what is possible with humans when the Holy Spirit indwells them as He did fully in Jesus after His baptism. Even Jesus said that someday we, who believe, would do the same works (through the same Holy Spirit who indwelt Him). Another reason was to become our High Priest, having suffered through the same temptations and completely knows our nature.

Jesus said many things referring to the fact that He was God. He prayed that we would all be one as He and the Father were one. Yet, He also said that everything He did while on earth, He was only following what the Father was showing Him. (Separation while still one entity). The father abandoned Him for a time when He carried our sins to the cross as our sacrificial lamb.

This has been stated differently and better throughout this thread - but it never had to fit into my understanding. I like the mystery.

Jesus didn't give up His Godhood when He came to earth as a man. He was 100% man and 100% God but He limited Himself for our sake and became just like a human with high-quality access to God.

Elin · Jan 31, 2015

Butch5 said:

It's not about human logic.
It's about divine wisdom. . .and it disagrees with you.

1) Redemption is a function of divinity.
The NT shows three separate divine agents, Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the work of redemption/salvation:

a) Father, Son and Holy Spirit at its beginning (Lk 1:35), the inauguration of Jesus' public ministry
(Mt 3:16-17),

b) the Holy Spirit completing the Father's work of redemption through the son [Ac 2:38-39; Ro 8 (v.26); 1Co 12:4-13 (vv.4-6); Eph 1:3-14 (v.14), 2:13-22 (v.18), 2Th 2:13; 1Pe 1:2];

c) the only way to enter the kingdom of the Father is through faith in the Son and regeneration by the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:1-15 (vv.5,14-15).

2) The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are bracketed together as the triune name of God.
a) Note in Mt 28:13 that Jesus said this was the name (singular) of the God with whom we enter into relationship.

b) Paul used all three interchangeably in 1Co 12:4-6,
they are linked together in prayer for divine blessing in 2Co 13:14, and
they are linked in pronouncement of divine blessing in Rev 1:4-5.

3) The close connection in the NT between Father, Son and Holy Spirit show a co-equal relationship:
Paul says "the Lord (Jesus) is the Spirit" (2Co 3:16-18), meaning the Spirit is one with Jesus in the unity of the Godhead.
Jesus not only works in men through the Spirit, but the Son and Spirit are co-equal divine beings.
To express that Christ worked through Paul, he would never say, "The Lord is Paul."
So Paul bears witness to the Spirit's place in the Godhead.

4) The NT shows the Holy Spirit to be a person.
It refers to him with the personal pronouns he, him, his, with personal titles and with personal functions.
The NT shows him acting as a person: speaking (Ac 8:29), deciding (Ac 15:28), forbidding (Ac 16:7), testifying (Ac 5:32), sending out missionaries (Ac 13:14), interceding (Ro 8:26-27).

5) To believe God is Three-In-One is not to violate the word of the OT.
The OT forbid worship of false gods--gods other than, apart from or outside YHWH.
The Son and Holy Spirit are not other than, apart from or outside YHWH any more than his Word (Jn 1:1, 14, 18) or his breath are other than, part from or outside YHWH (Ge 1:2; Job 26:13, 32:8, 33:4, 34:14-15; Ps 33:6).

That YHWH is Three-In-One is the overwhelming testimony of the gospel and the NT.

Who was Jesus Praying to in the Bible?

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