2 Thessalonians 2:11

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A

AlexG

Guest
#1
I am someone who is constantly living in sin and trying to find my way out. What makes it worse is that I grew up in a christian family and I attend church at least once a week ever since childhood. I can probably count on my fingers the morning services I missed and still have fingers left. Anyway, I believe I know the true God, I fear God and I have felt the power of the Holy Ghost, I have witnessed miracles in my life, I have been blessed on numerous occasions, yet I still continue to sin. I cannot call myself a true Christian, because I repented and asked for forgiveness but eventually start to live in sin again. I read the Bible and some days I get inspirations but some days I get discouraged and I start to feel so awful that I feel like I don't deserve to live. I feel like God gave me this life as a gift, and I dishonor Him in my ways.

2nd Thessalonians 2:11 I read this and I weep because I truly am confused and paranoid. Lately I have been dwelling into different sects of Christianity and Judaism, listening to different preachers and priests and rabbis. From Catholocism to Orthodoxy to Baptists to Messianic Jews to actual Jews. I even read about non Christian religions out of curiosity. I am not worried about being swayed by anyone because I have witnessed the power of Jesus, and I know that only through Him are you saved. But at the same time, I feel like I have chosen to be wicked and only appear Christian when it suits me. This is my darkest secret, that I never truly repented in my life, I have been baptized unlawfully, I have doubts in my faith (I was raised Protestant Pentacostal, but I feel like a Baptist because I have never spoke in tongues even once) and I feel like I've wandered off too far this time. What bothers me is that the burden of Knowing and continuing to sin. I sin without thinking I sin instinctively, I know Jesus but I continue to dishonor Him in my life. As soon as I get right with Jesus, I always ALWAYS manage to walk away, I feel like He is harder and harder to reach. After reading this passage, about a strong delusion, I start to question everything and I get paranoid and overwhelmed. I apologize for getting off topic but can someone please explain to me what you guys think about this passage.

Thank you
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#2
Tip. If you're going to center a post around a scripture, type out the scripture.
Another tip. Read things in context, meaning don't just take a line or two and apply it, but try to read the before and after verses as well, or even the whole chapter, to get the full context, not just the isolated scripture.

So go back and read all of 2 Thessalonians 2.
And if you can show me in scripture where it says, while still in our carnal, fleshly, sinful bodies that we will stop sinning completely, please post this. There is a minority that believe this, but i've yet to see either scripture or evidence, of this.
As Christians we are to resist sin as best we can. Work towards weeding it out of our lives. But we will not become sinless in our carnal life time. Long as, in your heart, you feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit towards you sin, and you strive to live your life for God the best you can, that is what God looks for in a Christians heart.
 
A

AlexG

Guest
#3
Apologies,
2 Thessalonians 2:11

"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:"
KJV

Thank you for your comforting words
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,991
337
83
#4

That verse (subject) is about those who willfully follow the anti-Christ, it is a future prophecy yet to happen. It just means that for those who chase after the anti-Christ, God will send them strong delusion and let them believe him.

Remember that God is not the author of confusion. You wrote; "I sin without thinking I sin instinctively". Imo, Christians don't sin instinctively, they know exactly what they're doing because they are convicted by the Holy Spirit. If your aware that your sinning, there's nothing instinctive about it.

You also wrote; "I never truly repented in my life, I have been baptized unlawfully". The remedy for that is to start repenting whenever you sin. This doesn't mean you won't sin again, it just means that we all need to repent of our sins on a regular basis. I also wouldn't blame your baptism as being unlawful, it just sounds like you've lost your way or lost your conscience. Don't give up and don't listen to so many religious ways, it sounds like its just confusing you. jmo
 
Jan 21, 2015
14
0
1
#5
I have doubts in my faith (I was raised Protestant Pentacostal, but I feel like a Baptist because I have never spoke in tongues even once) and I feel like I've wandered off too far this time.
Umm...lol. That could possibly be taken offensively from Christians who are Baptist. Being Baptist doesn't exclude the charismatic expression of tongues.
 
Feb 7, 2013
1,276
21
0
#6
I am someone who is constantly living in sin and trying to find my way out. What makes it worse is that I grew up in a christian family and I attend church at least once a week ever since childhood. I can probably count on my fingers the morning services I missed and still have fingers left. Anyway, I believe I know the true God, I fear God and I have felt the power of the Holy Ghost, I have witnessed miracles in my life, I have been blessed on numerous occasions, yet I still continue to sin. I cannot call myself a true Christian, because I repented and asked for forgiveness but eventually start to live in sin again. I read the Bible and some days I get inspirations but some days I get discouraged and I start to feel so awful that I feel like I don't deserve to live. I feel like God gave me this life as a gift, and I dishonor Him in my ways.

2nd Thessalonians 2:11 I read this and I weep because I truly am confused and paranoid. Lately I have been dwelling into different sects of Christianity and Judaism, listening to different preachers and priests and rabbis. From Catholocism to Orthodoxy to Baptists to Messianic Jews to actual Jews. I even read about non Christian religions out of curiosity. I am not worried about being swayed by anyone because I have witnessed the power of Jesus, and I know that only through Him are you saved. But at the same time, I feel like I have chosen to be wicked and only appear Christian when it suits me. This is my darkest secret, that I never truly repented in my life, I have been baptized unlawfully, I have doubts in my faith (I was raised Protestant Pentacostal, but I feel like a Baptist because I have never spoke in tongues even once) and I feel like I've wandered off too far this time. What bothers me is that the burden of Knowing and continuing to sin. I sin without thinking I sin instinctively, I know Jesus but I continue to dishonor Him in my life. As soon as I get right with Jesus, I always ALWAYS manage to walk away, I feel like He is harder and harder to reach. After reading this passage, about a strong delusion, I start to question everything and I get paranoid and overwhelmed. I apologize for getting off topic but can someone please explain to me what you guys think about this passage.

Thank you
Peace be with you, and you are not alone and there are many believers hiding many sins in them. The LORD sees and knows all of them from the beginning.

Where is it then that is all going wrong?

It starts with our 'flesh', and evidence of it's 'passions' and 'desires', written in Galatians chapter 5. We also have to know it's fruits and forsake them, even by the Help of CHRIST, if one is 'weak'. We cannot ignorantly move forward, while the SPIRIT and flesh warring each other and stop us from what we want to do.

Another thing is going back to the four Gospels and listen to JESUS words/teachings and practice them, in order to become as a wise builder. These teachings and practices are the Law of the SPIRIT in CHRIST, in order to bear the fruits of the SPIRIT.

In the Gospel of John (8; 31,32), JESUS said to those who believe in HIM, how to be 'set free', saying;

"If you 'abide' in My word, you are truly My disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

Please note that JESUS said; "If/Unless we 'abide/keep/continue/conform to/etc' in HIS word, ........................."

In Matthew 7; 24-27, HE said;

"Everyone then who hears these words of Mine and does them will be like, ......................................................."

And in 2 John, verse 9, GOD's Word say;

"Everyone who goes on ahead and does not 'abide/keep/continue/conform to/etc.' in the teaching of CHRIST, does not have GOD. Whoever 'abide' in the teaching , has both the FATHER and the SON."

If you have realized then where you have failed, do not be discouraged when the FATHER corrects you, for;

"HE corrects the ones HE love."

(Being HIS disciples also, one must evaluate the cost of building GOD's house, whether they are able to build.)

HE today calls you, according to Hebrews 4; 14-16, saying;

"Since then we have a Great High Priest who has passed through the Heavens , JESUS, the SON of GOD, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a High Priest who is uable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us then with confidence draw near to the Throne of Grace, that we may receive mercy and find Grace to Help in time of need."

It is also written that;

"Be gloomy and sad, if you are unable to do what GOD wants you to do."

Christians have nothing to be proud of nor to brag about, other than only CHRIST.

We are all called to grow in the spirit by the guidance of the HOLY SPIRIT, according to the sound doctrine knowledge of the Holy Bible, taught by HIM.

In You Tube, please watch 'Pail Washer's' ministry. He speaks other parts of the Scriptures, like given to me that the churches withholds to GOD's lambs and sheep's obedient growth according to the written truth.

Thank you and be blessed in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST,
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#7
5This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all[SUP]b[/SUP] sin.
8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,095
6,479
113
#8
but I feel like a Baptist because I have never spoke in tongues even once)


Speaking in tongues doesn't make you a Christian.............tongues is just ONE of the Gifts of the Spirit.......and if you are looking for an OUTWARD sign that you are a Christian, then you are not a Christian.

Rebirth occurs WITHIN the believer............To me only I suppose, it sounds as if you never REALLY dedicated yourself to God, surrendered ALL...........just kinda went through the motions you may have learned in Sunday School or something.

IF you truly want to be a Christian, you HAVE to be serious about it...................
 
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
#9
I am someone who is constantly living in sin and trying to find my way out. What makes it worse is that I grew up in a christian family and I attend church at least once a week ever since childhood. I can probably count on my fingers the morning services I missed and still have fingers left. Anyway, I believe I know the true God, I fear God and I have felt the power of the Holy Ghost, I have witnessed miracles in my life, I have been blessed on numerous occasions, yet I still continue to sin. I cannot call myself a true Christian, because I repented and asked for forgiveness but eventually start to live in sin again. I read the Bible and some days I get inspirations but some days I get discouraged and I start to feel so awful that I feel like I don't deserve to live. I feel like God gave me this life as a gift, and I dishonor Him in my ways.

2nd Thessalonians 2:11 I read this and I weep because I truly am confused and paranoid. Lately I have been dwelling into different sects of Christianity and Judaism, listening to different preachers and priests and rabbis. From Catholocism to Orthodoxy to Baptists to Messianic Jews to actual Jews. I even read about non Christian religions out of curiosity. I am not worried about being swayed by anyone because I have witnessed the power of Jesus, and I know that only through Him are you saved. But at the same time, I feel like I have chosen to be wicked and only appear Christian when it suits me. This is my darkest secret, that I never truly repented in my life, I have been baptized unlawfully, I have doubts in my faith (I was raised Protestant Pentacostal, but I feel like a Baptist because I have never spoke in tongues even once) and I feel like I've wandered off too far this time. What bothers me is that the burden of Knowing and continuing to sin. I sin without thinking I sin instinctively, I know Jesus but I continue to dishonor Him in my life. As soon as I get right with Jesus, I always ALWAYS manage to walk away, I feel like He is harder and harder to reach. After reading this passage, about a strong delusion, I start to question everything and I get paranoid and overwhelmed. I apologize for getting off topic but can someone please explain to me what you guys think about this passage.

Thank you
Alex,

This is a tough subject. Many times it is hard to avoid sin. However, we have to continue the battle. If we really believe that there is eternal life to be had and that this is the most important thing that there is we should do whatever it takes if we want that life. It's not easy, the world does look good at times. It's at those times we should seek the Lord for assistance in avoiding those temptations. The problem is that we get distracted by the glittering things of the world. If someone put 10 million dollars in a bank account in your name and said if you don't do this and this and that for one year the money is yours. You'd probably go to great extremes to avoid doing those things so that you can obtain that money. The key here is that you see the money, it's real, it in the account. Eternal life on the other sometimes seems like a dream of a fantasy, sometimes we don't see it as a real thing. It may be something off in the distant future. We may not see it like that 10 millions sitting the bank that we can tough. My point here is that it's a lot easier to strive for that thing that is tangible, that we can see and touch. It's more difficult to do it by faith. From what you said in your post I think this is what you are struggling with. What I would do is look at what I believe, strengthen it and make it a central focus of my life.

I don't what to assume what you believe or challenge that in any way. I do want to suggest though that a person lives what they believe. That can be seen in all people Christian or not. So, how you live should give you some insight into what you really believe.
 
S

sveinen

Guest
#10
you apologize "getting off subject" in your own starting of thread.. :p
-Him harder and harder to reach? ..there's verse informing He rebukes those He Loves :p :)
there's more to the verse, also. or "like so, like." High One...
please read 2 Th. 2:12 :)
 
F

forsha

Guest
#11
Tip. If you're going to center a post around a scripture, type out the scripture.
Another tip. Read things in context, meaning don't just take a line or two and apply it, but try to read the before and after verses as well, or even the whole chapter, to get the full context, not just the isolated scripture.

So go back and read all of 2 Thessalonians 2.
And if you can show me in scripture where it says, while still in our carnal, fleshly, sinful bodies that we will stop sinning completely, please post this. There is a minority that believe this, but i've yet to see either scripture or evidence, of this.
As Christians we are to resist sin as best we can. Work towards weeding it out of our lives. But we will not become sinless in our carnal life time. Long as, in your heart, you feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit towards you sin, and you strive to live your life for God the best you can, that is what God looks for in a Christians heart.
I have complete security and comfort in the doctrine that I believe in, which I believe is the doctrine of Christ. I know that every person on this forum believes that they are believing in the doctrine of Christ, but I don't think that the doctrine that they believe in gives the complete comfort and security as does the doctrine of Christ. Let me point out some scriptures that might show you what I mean, if the Holy Spirit will open your understanding of them, because you will never understand without the Holy Spirit that is within you revealing it to you. It is evident to me, if you are indeed hungry for spiritual discerning, that you are a born again child of God. John 6:37-41, All that the Father GIVETH me shall come to me(I believe that you were included in this number, and that you did not come to Jesus until after God gave you to Jesus, therefore eliminating your works to be worthy); and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38- For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39- And this is my Father's will which hath sent me, that of all (which includes you) which he has given me I should lose NOTHING, but should RAISE it up again at the last day. John 10:27-28, My sheep (that's you)hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me (not all of the time, only Jesus could do that). 28- And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall NEVER perish, neither shall any man (if you are a man or woman, this includes you and you cannot take yourself out of this security by the sins that you do) pluk them out of my hand. Once you have been given eternal life and you willfully sin you will lose your fellowship with God and your life will not be a happy one until you repent and have fellowship with God again. To some extent we all do what you are doing, and if anyone tells you that they don't they are not telling you the truth. Read the whole chapter of John 17. Jesus is talking about his apostles in the first few verses, but in verse 20 Neither pray I for these only, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word (and we know that, by 1 Cor 2:14, the carnal man cannot believe spiritual things until they are born of the Spirit, saved eternally). Heb 2:13 - And again, I will put my trust in him, And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. John 18:9, That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spoke, of them which thou gavest me have I lost none. I pray that the Holy Spirit within you may reveal to you the truths of these scriptures.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#12
I am someone who is constantly living in sin and trying to find my way out. What makes it worse is that I grew up in a christian family and I attend church at least once a week ever since childhood. I can probably count on my fingers the morning services I missed and still have fingers left. Anyway, I believe I know the true God, I fear God and I have felt the power of the Holy Ghost, I have witnessed miracles in my life, I have been blessed on numerous occasions, yet I still continue to sin. I cannot call myself a true Christian, because I repented and asked for forgiveness but eventually start to live in sin again. I read the Bible and some days I get inspirations but some days I get discouraged and I start to feel so awful that I feel like I don't deserve to live. I feel like God gave me this life as a gift, and I dishonor Him in my ways.

2nd Thessalonians 2:11 I read this and I weep because I truly am confused and paranoid. Lately I have been dwelling into different sects of Christianity and Judaism, listening to different preachers and priests and rabbis. From Catholocism to Orthodoxy to Baptists to Messianic Jews to actual Jews. I even read about non Christian religions out of curiosity. I am not worried about being swayed by anyone because I have witnessed the power of Jesus, and I know that only through Him are you saved. But at the same time, I feel like I have chosen to be wicked and only appear Christian when it suits me. This is my darkest secret, that I never truly repented in my life, I have been baptized unlawfully, I have doubts in my faith (I was raised Protestant Pentacostal, but I feel like a Baptist because I have never spoke in tongues even once) and I feel like I've wandered off too far this time. What bothers me is that the burden of Knowing and continuing to sin. I sin without thinking I sin instinctively, I know Jesus but I continue to dishonor Him in my life. As soon as I get right with Jesus, I always ALWAYS manage to walk away, I feel like He is harder and harder to reach. After reading this passage, about a strong delusion, I start to question everything and I get paranoid and overwhelmed. I apologize for getting off topic but can someone please explain to me what you guys think about this passage.

Thank you
Psalm 110:1, "Yahweh(#3068) said to my Ruler and King(#113): Sit at My right hand, until I make Your enemies Your footstool."

John 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd."
 
A

AlexG

Guest
#13
Haha I didn't mean to offend, but in my church we have several baptist members who attend regularly and speaking in tongues is one thing that they don't practice but they tolerate it. I tend to sit among them more often than not, we are all brothers and sisters it's not like that lol
 
A

AlexG

Guest
#14
That was a great analogy, thanks for your insight
 
A

AlexG

Guest
#15
I know what you mean, but I struggle with cursing a lot and its basically part of my everyday language. That's what I mean by instinctive sin. In the heat of the moment I sometimes say things that I later regret. I feel much better that people understand me here and your advice is very appreciated, thanks for taking the time to respond it's very encouraging
 
M

Marian29

Guest
#16
I guess this verse also means that everything, EVERYTHING, is under God's control and His eyes.