British Actor's Attack On God

[ColinCat]

Thanks, mate. Yes, that's my stance. I believe in Christ and that He is the one Truth. I believe I know my identity and purpose rests in Him etc. but I most definitely struggle to comprehend/understand many things in life. The difficult questions are just that, difficult for anyone - Christian or non. I have faith. Some parts don't make sense and some things can be well-reasoned.

That's fair enough, thats a stance that cannot be argued against.

Being an atheist its very easy for me to ask these questions without some sort of internal conflict etc.

I don't know if that's the right wording for what you might experience when these difficult questions arise... But its very easy for me to dismiss how a believer would feel about these difficult issues because I don't believe what you do.

I should take that into consideration from now on and think a bit more before I speak.

 

[ColinCat]

Yes it is safe to say that. But it is also safe to say that an atheist only refuses God because there is something they don't like that God allows or something they don't understand.

The difference is all in faith.

I'll repsectfully disagree that an atheist only refuses god because of how he may operate, but that's a topic for another thread lol.

 

[elf3]

That's fair enough, thats a stance that cannot be argued against.

Being an atheist its very easy for me to ask these questions without some sort of internal conflict etc.

I don't know if that's the right wording for what you might experience when these difficult questions arise... But its very easy for me to dismiss how a believer would feel about these difficult issues because I don't believe what you do.

I should take that into consideration from now on and think a bit more before I speak.

Actually we need to be a bit more loving, respectful and humble in answering.

 

[Ukorin]

Assuming the bible is true:

We were made with the capacity for sin, and were destined to become sinful (as per God having the ability to see the future and still making us with the capacity for sin regardless), and to be trapped in a sinful nature which is in God's eyes inadequate and can only be overcome by belief that he send himself to appease himself for our sakes. It was never our choice to become immersed in sinfulness, we were determined to it.

If we are determined to death and pain and anguish (since God decided to make us with the capacity for sin knowing that in the future we would succumb to it), then God and his constraints are responsible for our sinful nature.

We did not create ourselves with the capacity for sin. God created us with the capacity for it.

So, the question still remains. How can that be synonymous with love?

Then complain to God about it.
Job did, and God viewed Job as a righteous man.

Complaining about it is fine, but solves nothing. Submission on the other hand, solves everything.
Job brought a lawsuit against God, and never exactly took back his lawsuit... but Job did submit to God.

What was God's defense of Himself when accused by Job of wrongdoing?
God did not get into philosophy or make excuses or explain His actions,
but displayed His power and authority to Job!

If the most powerful and authoritative being in the universe (even this description is finite compared to who God really is) tells you that He is good and loving, and that by submitting to Him you will be rewarded, and that by rebelling against Him you will face judgement and punishment... I wouldn't be worrying about what I perceive as "contradictions". I'd be worried about obeying Him, and quickly. Maybe after I get my reward I will ask the question... or maybe I'll be given understanding along with the reward.

Does God deserve to be worshipped because He lines up with our views of morality?
God deserves to be worshipped because of His power and authority. Anything He describes Himself as, other than powerful and authoritative, are to help us relate to and submit to God willingly. If you think He's a liar, then call Him out on it... but do submit to Him also. When faced with such power and authority, do our perceived notions and definitions really matter?

It would be wise to listen to the One who judges spirits, and who also makes judgements over all the mathematical structure of the universe.

 

[VioletReigns]

There is no answer to refuse as of yet.

All I've had so far is people telling me IVE given them bone cancer, or what am I doing to prevent this bone cancer, or telling me I'm ignoring gods message and touching a hot stove... These are not answers.

The closest I've got to an answer is it happens because other people have sinned... Which brings us full circle, why would a loving, just god allow a child to have bone cancer? Your happy with the explanation that god does nothing to help the innocent child because other people have sinned?

If you don't know why, then please tell me you don't know why, Rather than avoiding the question all together.

You didn't answer my question, ColinCat. Nevertheless, I will answer yours.

God created us for His own pleasure. He created us in His image, says He is our Father and we are His children. Jesus said treat others the way you want to be treated (the Golden Rule) and said that all of our needs would be provided for and that He gave us this world to live and prosper in joy and peace.

In order for God to find pleasure in us, and for us to delight in Him as well, He created us living beings with a free will. Because of course, you cannot have a loving relationship with an enslaved being who fears being destroyed if they disobey.

Because we are free-willed people, some choose to reject God and to rebel against the concept of the Golden Rule. They live for themselves, for greed, for lust, for pleasure, for pride, and their hearts are cold toward the Lord. Some are with such reprobate mind, they do unspeakable evil and seem to have no conscience at all.

Does this surprise God? No, it does not. He took that into consideration when He created us. That’s why Jesus came and died on the Cross. The Lord showed how much He loved us by taking the blame for us, by paying the price of our sin on the Cross of Redemption. Nobody in this world is good enough to deserve that. Not one person. Because unless we grow and mature in Jesus, our free will keeps us like King David said, “ignorant and senseless, like a beast” before God.

Now, on the other hand, if we all submitted to one another, considering one another in the Spirit of Jesus Christ, what a world we’d live in! There would not be greedy, deranged, hateful, lusting, animalistic, barbaric, sick-minded people in this world. We would have available housing for all, bartering instead of money, health foods and clean water and clean air that sickness would be rare or obsolete, family-centered lifestyles, fidelity in marriages, joyful & mentally healthy children, strong men, sweet women, etc., etc. We would have paradise.

Why are there horrible things happening in the world? Because of people, not God. His children screw up and some refuse to repent to Him and listen to His Voice of reason. My adult children can blame me when things go wrong in their lives. What good would it do? I did the best I could to make a way for them to live productive and happy lives. Yes, I screwed up many times as a parent. Nevertheless, what good does it do them to complain and harp about me, their mother? They need to remember whose children they really are: God’s. And that my instruction was just helping them to hear their Father’s Voice.

So, why is there children with bone cancer? I can give you a million reasons. Every single person who does not live as God instructs us to, every single person who refuses to surrender to Jesus that the Lord can work through us to show love and mercy in this world, every single soul who thinks they have a better plan than God’s perfect plan, they are to blame.

Perhaps it's time you tried God. Reason with Him in private, surrender to Jesus Christ and receive His Holy Spirit, abandon doubting for once and ask Him to reveal Himself to you in a magnificent way. Once you have tried God, see if He is not who He says He is and what you are to Him.

 

[elf3]

I'll repsectfully disagree that an atheist only refuses god because of how he may operate, but that's a topic for another thread lol.

Haha yeah you are correct. From both sides it's hard to understand the others point sometimes. For me because of everything I am going through and the complete peace I have from God I see it as a cut and dry because of my faith. But from your side it's not so easy to answer.

I want to apologize if any of my responses seemed rude or disrespectful.

 

[ColinCat]

Haha yeah you are correct. From both sides it's hard to understand the others point sometimes. For me because of everything I am going through and the complete peace I have from God I see it as a cut and dry because of my faith. But from your side it's not so easy to answer.

I want to apologize if any of my responses seemed rude or disrespectful.

No please don't apologise, you've done nothing wrong my friend.

 

[elf3]

No please don't apologise, you've done nothing wrong my friend.

Thank you

 

[breno785au]

Colin, Human, I don't know the answer to your questions, about why would God allow a child to have bone cancer and the answer is probably really simple, it's probably staring right at us, right in our faces but in our limited ability to understand it is not being seen or accepted. Perhaps we are looking for the answer in the completely wrong direction and missing it?
In my walk with God and the questions I have asked, i've found I had to learn other things first before I could comprehend the answer to my question, kind of like you have to learn elementary maths before moving onto more advanced equations, understanding builds upon understanding. Things unravel over time. Though I may not understand the why things happen, my faith and revelation of Gods sovereignty remains unshaken because that faith and revelation is not based logical knowledge but it is spiritual.
And I tell you this, if you had all those questions answered and you were satisfied with all answers given, you would still not believe in God in the way He requires (not that there's any wrong with questions) because He requires faith, He requires a desire for Truth, He requires a hunger and not required in a way where He is sitting lofty on His throne with a stick, though He is high and lofty, His heart is lowly and humble, filled with pity and He lifts us up as we throw up our arms knowing that we need Him to help us. Though He is all powerful, we have the ability to shut Him out (i know your going to have a problem with that statement ), just as we have the ability to shut anyone out of our lives if we don't want them near us. Look at what the world is doing, so many fundraisers for cancer research, so many awareness programs, so much striving to work out the answers for ourselves, driving ourselves to the bone meanwhile becoming more and more frustrated as a people trying to bring answers for ourselves and God says, "I have the answers, all you need to do is rest. Stop striving, its my battle not yours, I am able when you are not." And I think that us ambassadors of Christ could do a better job at showing the world God's love, but as each submits Himself to God, that's itself Gods work in us and not even our own work or righteousness. I think i'm done now Have fun with that.

 

[pug32]

[SUP]1 Cor. 15:52 [/SUP]In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[SUP]53 [/SUP]For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[SUP]54 [/SUP]So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
[SUP]55 [/SUP]O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
[SUP]56 [/SUP]The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
[SUP]57 [/SUP]But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]58 [/SUP]Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

Your friend in Christ
Jeremiah Howell

 

[Kaycie]

Scary and very sad!
P.S. About TITANIC... remember the Greek "titans" it means something big... this goes back to old language and the nephilim... teitan/titan is the same as seitan (satan).
That ship was kind of an opposite to the Ark of Noah.
Pride of man, the biggest and most "safe" ever, named even after the devil... and that's why it failed.

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

 

[prove-all]

Church of England Ordains First Female Bishop

 

[Kaycie]

No, am I asking why god would allow it to happen.

Why am I having so much trouble getting a straight answer?

You all know god apparently, so this should be easy for anyone here to answer.

I will give you an answer, but people like this Stephen Fry will not accept an answer because they are using it as an excuse to not obey God, and to take the focus off of their own sin by putting the blame on someone else, so that the spotlight is now on the other person, in an attempt to escape personal accountability.


Just as it rains on the just and the unjust, disease, which is a punishment for sin, can affect anyone at any age. But hardships can also give reason for people to pray when they wouldn't have, had it not been for the hardship. I have seen firsthand how an afflicted child brought the parents closer to God. As hard as it is to accept, sometimes it is a blessing in disguise. I allowed my child to have a vaccine shot. Not because I wanted to see her in pain, but because I wanted to protect her from something far worse.


Whether or not we see or understand the big picture that He sees, God is holy and has never done anything evil. His mind and reasoning is beyond our comprehension. He made this world with all its tiny complex parts. He created life, and therefore has the right to take life away. When David sinned God took his baby. Now as far as the baby is concerned, Ecclesiastes says, "Better yet is he who has not been born, who has not seen the evil done under the sun." The less you live in this world, the more you escape the hardships of this world. If I had to lose a child, I would rather it be bone cancer than a car accident, so that I could hold them again and be able to say goodbye.


What if All-knowing God knew that that baby would grow up to be a Hitler or a serial killer? What if He gave that person bone cancer as a child so that they would not grow up and murder YOU? Where we can only see a speck of sand, God can see everything. We cannot order Him to answer to us who do evil why He does the things that He does.


God is loving, but He is also just and must punish sin. WE sinned- that's why there is cancer in the world. If we leave a loaded gun within a child's reach, and they accidentally kill themselves, is God to blame for creating metal and people who form guns and leave them in children's reach? If a pregnant mom has homosexual relations and gets aids and the baby is born with aids, is that God's fault or the mother's? The things that God put in place to punish sin on the earth are the fault of sinners. I have seen products in the store that say right on the warning label, "Scientifically proven to cause cancer." I showed the manager and asked them to take it off of store shelves, but greed for money won and they are still on the shelves. This is a physical world, if you jump off the roof and get hurt will you blame God for making gravity? Even though we can't live without gravity?


I will not be the one who stands before God and says, "It is all Your fault You evil Being!" I will be the one who says, "I may not have always understood Your reasonings, but , like Job or Joseph, I never lost my faith in You or Your righteous Will. I trusted you to lead me Home- which You did."

 

[Tintin]

Except for your Hitler comment, that was a very good post. Thank you.

 

[TheAristocat]

OK how about we answer Stephen Fry's first question. Why Bone cancer in children?

And I mean a real answer. Not god is mysterious, or its gods will etc. I mean a real answer.. Why?

If there is no God, then bone cancer in anyone would stem from environmental or genetic factors - not from a malevolent god cursing anyone. It's understandable then that if there is a God, then bone cancer doesn't have to originate from his spitefulness.

Beyond that, I couldn't tell you why children get bone cancer. In fact, I'm not even sure we've advanced technologically enough for anyone to answer your question. We can speculate and offer explanations, but that's not really what you're asking.

If we both ran into a child who was born blind, you'd ask, "Why did a loving God let this child be blind?" And I wouldn't be able to answer you. But there is one who would have.

John 9:1-3, 6-7 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" "Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. [...]" After saying this, he spit on the ground, made some mud with the saliva, and put it on the man's eyes. "Go," he told him, "wash in the Pool of Siloam" [...] So the man went and washed, and came home seeing.

Because he was born blind he helped to bring prophecy to completion (Isaiah 42:7), and he stood in the company of a King.

 

[Tintin]

If there is no God, then bone cancer in anyone would stem from environmental or genetic factors - not from a malevolent god cursing anyone. It's understandable then that if there is a God, then bone cancer doesn't have to originate from his spitefulness.

Beyond that, I couldn't tell you why children get bone cancer. In fact, I'm not even sure we've advanced technologically enough for anyone to answer your question. We can speculate and offer explanations, but that's not really what you're asking.

If we both ran into a child who was born blind, you'd ask, "Why did a loving God let this child be blind?" And I wouldn't be able to answer you. But there is one who would have.

John 9:1-3, 6-7 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" "Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. [...]" After saying this, he spit on the ground, made some mud with the saliva, and put it on the man's eyes. "Go," he told him, "wash in the Pool of Siloam" [...] So the man went and washed, and came home seeing.

Because he was born blind he helped to bring prophecy to completion (Isaiah 42:7), and he stood in the company of a King.

The bone cancer wouldn't stem from God's 'curse', yes, but if there was no God there would be nothing at all. There has to be a Creator for there to be Creation. Things don't make themselves without outside input.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

They asked "Why?" without showing any understanding of why evil isn't gratuitous, arguments for God's justification in allowing it temporarily to accomplish much greater eternal good [see Alvin Plantinga](especially with respect to both the logical and probabilistic philosophical arguments for actualization by God [see William Lane Craig]), the best possible world problem in which God simply exists with nothing else whatsoever or nothing possessing freewill [see Norman Geisler], the resolution of the angelic conflict [see R.B. Thieme], etc..., etc..., etc... I'm barely scratching the surface.

Few of these young atheists who immersed into a life of deep immorality and enmity toward God really want to look at the issue logically and evidentially with an eye toward understanding and knowing God. But they need to for as As Randy Alcorn states:

“Logical arguments won’t satisfy you... You need help with the emotional problem of evil... You will not find relief unless you gain [the right] perspective.”

They are reacting emotionally from a misinformed worldview with the emotional part being understandable, of course, for as moral beings made in Holy God's image they are rightly outraged at the evil that exists in this present world despite their own moral compasses negatively deviating from true north to the extent they habitually engage in it themselves.

Spiritually, they are in what the bible refers to as a "lost" "dead" spiritual state. Intellectually, despite whatever academic achievements they have earned, they are deceived and/or ignorant with respect to God's objective truth to the point that it's rare to find one of them logical enough to deduce that if God were to permanently destroy the problem of evil right now that He would have to destroy them too in their present state (as they wrongly lay the blame for it at His feet).

Furthermore, they often appear unaware that God turns both moral and natural evil in this world into something good in the lives of you and I, His beloved, and that we are constantly developing more and more godly character attributes in facing and learning to overcome the evil in the world until, rather quickly or slowly, our promotion into His presence (though it should be noted that most Christian philosophers state they find that a world in which courage is exemplified is not inherently morally preferable to a world in which no evil exists).

To use a metaphor friend, we are like deeply flawed diamonds being illuminated by God's objective holiness, love, and truth. Over time, we become less flawed as God works in us softening and reworking us. We don't live apart from an actual God or in a state of deception professing something not actually possessed like they falsely assert (because, in fact, they do).

Biblically, the situation is serious for “the whole world lies under the sway of the evil one” (1 John 5:19) groaning in travail for its redemption (Romans 8: 18-22).

And though Jesus warned all will experience tribulation because of the problem of evil, He also said, “But be of good cheer, I have overcome the world” (John 6.33). Having experienced the supernatural and come into relation with our creator we look forward to the resolution of the problem of evil and a resurrection where evil is permanently vanquished.

I could go on and on and on and on about the problem of evil but I have things to attend to. Peace.

The bone cancer wouldn't stem from God's 'curse'

 

[MadParrotWoman]

Wow it's been busy here whilst I've been sleeping lol.

Personally I don't think it's God who gives people sickness, sickness is an attack from the enemy. Yes God could stop it if it was His will but He didn't stop the horrible torture and ultimate death of His only son. I think one thing I haven't seen mentioned is this: God doesn't see death the way we see it, for Him death is just the beginning of eternity with Him. these suffering Children will one day be free of their pain and in Jesus' arms.

The reason I mentioned Stephen Fry being gay is very relevant. He knows that his lifestyle is against God's teachings and so to throw abuse at God is a way to justify what he knows in his heart is wrong. I know this because I was once living a life God wouldn't have approved of and underneath it all I knew I was doing wrong regardless of what society has deemed acceptable - so I know what I'm talking about. Stephen Fry has to justify his lifestyle to himself and so demonises God in order to acheive that.

 

[ColinCat]

Wow it's been busy here whilst I've been sleeping lol.

Personally I don't think it's God who gives people sickness, sickness is an attack from the enemy. Yes God could stop it if it was His will but He didn't stop the horrible torture and ultimate death of His only son. I think one thing I haven't seen mentioned is this: God doesn't see death the way we see it, for Him death is just the beginning of eternity with Him. these suffering Children will one day be free of their pain and in Jesus' arms.

The reason I mentioned Stephen Fry being gay is very relevant. He knows that his lifestyle is against God's teachings and so to throw abuse at God is a way to justify what he knows in his heart is wrong. I know this because I was once living a life God wouldn't have approved of and underneath it all I knew I was doing wrong regardless of what society has deemed acceptable - so I know what I'm talking about. Stephen Fry has to justify his lifestyle to himself and so demonises God in order to acheive that.

But that would suggest that Stephen Fry actually believes in god and is just trying to justify his lifestyle.. Is that what your saying?

 

[MadParrotWoman]

But that would suggest that Stephen Fry actually believes in god and is just trying to justify his lifestyle.. Is that what your saying?

Yes I think deep down we all know that God is real - even if we go around denying it. Why do atheists frequent this forum? Society largely talks us out of it, I know that this was the case with myself.