I'm Worried About a Friend and Church of Christ

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Leadfoot5311

Leadfoot5311

Senior Member
#1
Apr 7, 2011
370
3
18
#1
Hey guys. I just wanted to get some advice. One of my close friends is getting "courted" by the Church of Christ for the past few months, and she's looking to really get involved in it.

However, looking into what the Church of Christ believes, I'm noticing some things are WAY off-base, and that the church manipulates scriptures to make their points. I'm concerned for my friend, that she may be being lead astray, and that she will end up spiritually hurt. It's tough, because I know she's eager in wanting to learn more about faith, and I'm worried that this group of people are preying on that eagerness, to hunt her down.

Some of the things the Church of Christ believe:

  • You are not saved until you are baptized, in the way that the Church of Christ requires you to
  • The Rapture is false, and that there's no evidence of it being true
  • Satan was not an angel named Lucifer, who was cast down from Heaven
  • You are not allowed to use instruments in worship of the Lord.
  • The Holy Spirit is not endowed on the current generations of Christians, and it requires an "Apostle's Touch" to be granted with it.

Looking at these, this is flawed doctrine off the bat. There is evidence for everything that counteracts what the Church of Christ is teaching. At first impression, it appears to be legalism. However, upon closer inspection, it is way off base in scripture. I sat in on my friend's "Teacher" talking, and I will say, he is a smooth talker. He will twist the scriptures without a hiccup in his talking. In the Skype chat, he made me look like a fool, because I'm not the "Smooth fast talkin'" type.

However, I brought up points that would (arguably) disarm the entire Church of Christ doctrine, and he brings out twisted meaning to scriptures to justify his points, then attacks me. This is a very dangerous thing, because spiritual lives are at stake!

Please pray for my friend, and that she will find the spiritual support she needs, and will have her eyes opened.

Does anyone here have experience with the Church of Christ? There any advice for trying to help someone break free?
 
J

JustinFromTwinCities

Guest
#2
#2
Ya, they have atleast a few unbiblical doctrines. I remember going to one and everyone was super friendly and welcoming. I was invited to all these dinners with families there and really enjoyed the fellowship. I mean I guess what I am saying is this (and people feel free to criticize me), you know there are alot of churches which are in error in many ways. It's actually quite difficult (atleast for me) to find a good one, where you are a part of a family/the body of Christ. As long as your friend knows what is true and what is false, than it may be alright. I don't think you have to agree with everything every other Christian believes in order to both belong to Christ. And I certainly wouldn't consider myself a member of a denomination just because I went to a church which was a part of a denomination.

If your friend is mature in their knowledge and understanding of the scriptures, than I think it is ok for them if they find a really great place in the Body of Christ where they can contribute and share and love and be valued.

That said, in theory/on paper, it would always be preferable to attend a "church" which is Biblically flawless.

I want to start meeting outside of these church buildings. Im just tired of all this church building stuff.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
J

JustinFromTwinCities

Guest
#3
#3
I think what drove me away from that Church of Christ was just how much they loved their tradtions, like singing without instruments and just the whole boring sermon nonsense that always takes up the entire time at church which should be used for fellowship and sharing and loving each other and all the good parts of the Body of Christ
 
Leadfoot5311

Leadfoot5311

Senior Member
#4
Apr 7, 2011
370
3
18
#4
The part that makes me quite nervous about the Church of Christ is that they are proclaiming you need to do the work of Baptism to "acquire" your salvation. Here's a practical situation where I feel this philosophy is flawed.

My grandmother passed away May 28th 2013. She grew up with her parents being Catholic, but she professed as an atheist for the majority of her life. The day before she passed away, she finally accepted Christ into her heart. She was not baptized.

Under the Word of God, it says she would be saved. Under Church of Christ teaching, she's in Hell. I'll take the Word of God, please!
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#5
#5
1 Peter 3:21 says that baptism saves. If you are saved before baptism, that would mean that baptism does not save. And if that were so, God is made out to be a liar when He says it does save.

The word rapture is not found in the bible, but we believe we will be caught up with the Lord in the air. You would have to be more specific about what the disagreement is on this subject.

We do believe Satan was an angel that was cast down from heaven, but that the name Lucifer was being sarcastic. Like saying, "Oh yes oh great one, you are so important." and then putting the person in their place by stating where they really stand. Satan wanted to be more important than God, but God would never seriously call him great. This was a misinterpretation that got passed down.

God was very specific what kind of instruments were to be used in both the old and new testaments. If you notice, things were done physically in the old testament but are now done spiritually in the new testament. One example is how David fought many physical battles, but Ephesians 6 says we now fight a spiritual battle and tells us to put on spiritual armor. Jesus has all authority over Gods people today (Matthew 28:18) and we cannot do anything without His permission. He says we are to make melody in our hearts to God, use the fruit of our lips, and sing to one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs (very specific). Every time Christ sang with Gods people there were no instruments, and there was no choir when He preached His sermon on the mount. Worship service is service. God is the only audience, we must do things His way cause it's His church. We are not there to please ourselves but to service Him, His way.

Certain gifts given to the apostles by the Holy Spirit no longer are active today. No one walks on water, survives deadly snake poison, or makes paralyzed legs walk. If you find such people, please send them to all the hospitals and free the people instantly.

If anyone has questions about the church of Christ, why we believe what we believe, please pm me.
 
J

JustinFromTwinCities

Guest
#6
#6
Leadfoot5311 said:
Under Church of Christ teaching, she's in Hell. I'll take the Word of God, please!
Click to expand...
Well, even if you believe in hell (which I do not according to my Biblical understanding), nobody would be there until after judgement day.

-Ok, some people probably notice me posting about this alot. Sorry I can't help it-
 
E

elf3

Guest
#7
#7
Are there any other churches nearby that might be a better church?
 
Leadfoot5311

Leadfoot5311

Senior Member
#8
Apr 7, 2011
370
3
18
#8
I've gone through all the churches near her, and her and I saw some potentially good ones. However, the people who are "Teaching" her seem to be trying to keep her away from them, telling her she can only go to a Church of Christ or something
 
J

JustinFromTwinCities

Guest
#9
#9
Leadfoot5311 said:
She grew up with her parents being Catholic, but she professed as an atheist for the majority of her life.
Click to expand...
I'd probably reject the idea of God too if I was force fed all that Catholic heresy growing up
 
Hizikyah

Hizikyah

Senior Member
#10
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#10
Phillipians 3:20, "But our citizenship is in heaven, out from which we also eagerly wait for our Ruler, Yahshua Messiah the King."
 
U

Ukorin

Guest
#11
#11
Leadfoot5311 said:
I've gone through all the churches near her, and her and I saw some potentially good ones. However, the people who are "Teaching" her seem to be trying to keep her away from them, telling her she can only go to a Church of Christ or something
Click to expand...
That there is the ONLY reason I see to avoid that specific congregation.
I have qualms about the CoC, but not enough to tells someone to stay away entirely,
however if the specific teachers are using that type of exclusivism... what you have is a group who rejects the rest of the Body.
The CoC are, generally, brethren alongside us is Christ. Like all denominations, there are some fringe congregations that are overtaken by pride. Look at the Westboro Baptist congregation as an example of pride taking over.
When a congregation is taken over by pride, they become more of a cult than an active member of the Body,
like a detached limb, they no longer take from the Vine and the Spirit-led mind, but from their own source... the physical mind. (Hence the legalism)

Baptism is a debatable topic. Instruments is a debatable topic. Satan/Lucifer is a debatable topic.
But the availability of the Holy Spirit and His sealing and indwelling of Believers is NOT debatable.

I debate CoC members on this forum a lot, but I generally see them as saved. Their faith in the baptism of John to save is a bit disconcerting (they will disagree with the label, but it is what it is), but I feel it's better for a Believer to be actively in fellowship than to be alone, so I wouldn't normally dissuade someone from joining... however the excusivism is more than disconcerting, but actually rings clear as cult mentality.

The congregation will likely not have a formal statement of beliefs,
and each CoC congregation has their own spin on things so looking up CoC in Google likely won't help much,
so your options on properly refuting their doctrines are slim to none. Your best option is prayer and reading the Word, and keeping in contact with your sister regardless.
 
C

clittle

Guest
#12
#12
Leadfoot5311 said:
The part that makes me quite nervous about the Church of Christ is that they are proclaiming you need to do the work of Baptism to "acquire" your salvation. Here's a practical situation where I feel this philosophy is flawed.

My grandmother passed away May 28th 2013. She grew up with her parents being Catholic, but she professed as an atheist for the majority of her life. The day before she passed away, she finally accepted Christ into her heart. She was not baptized.

Under the Word of God, it says she would be saved. Under Church of Christ teaching, she's in Hell. I'll take the Word of God, please!
Click to expand...
if your grandmother was raised as a catholic, she would have been baptized.
 
E

Eva1218

Guest
#13
#13
You are definitely a great friend. One who truly cares for another cares about their spiritual state. The best and wisest thing to do is first pray to GOD regarding her Salvation. Do not try to prove what she believes in as wrong it will only back fire but just speak life to her. If she is truly hungry and thirsty GOD will glady quinch that desire. Put it in GOD's Hands. And remember JESUS said to the FATHER I have not lost one, we serve an Awesome GOD so fear not for her spiritual state stand on faith that GOD hears and will answer your prayer of intercession for her soul.

Blessings!!!!!!!
 
Leadfoot5311

Leadfoot5311

Senior Member
#14
Apr 7, 2011
370
3
18
#14
I just wanted to put up a clarification post... I feel that I may have been somewhat "Blinded by anger" when I posted the initial post. After a couple days, I've tried to settle down, and I'm going to try to clear some things up.

When I was in the 3-way conversation with my friend and her "Teacher", I said that he was a smooth talker. I felt overwhelmed and intimidated by how fast he was talking, how many subjects he would go over, and where I would try to call him out on doctrine, he would glaze over or "sidestep" subject so quickly, you lose track of the conversation. So I'd say I felt like a fool because I couldn't "keep up with him".

And then in regards to the "attacking me", thinking back about it, I don't really feel like it was an attack. He may have had good intentions, but it seemed to come off a little antagonistic. It was tough, because some things the guy was saying was very tough to hear, like saying my pastor (who is one of the most knowledgeable people I know in regards to scripture) "Should read the bible and actually LEARN something", I felt it was tough...

So, just saying, there is more to the story than I let on, but the point of this doesn't change. I am still very concerned for my friend's salvation, and what I've noticed is that the teachings of Church of Christ are quite difficult. I've cross referenced the teachings with pastors, my mother and my stepfather, and they are very concerned for my friend as well.

So prayers are definitely appreciated. Thank you!
 
J

JustinFromTwinCities

Guest
#15
#15
Well your humility and passion for truth and your friends is certainly praiseworthy. I think its obvious that Christ is at work in you. Don't stop weighing everything against Scripture.

I can't really know the entire situation so its hard to accurately judge the situation. My gut tells me that any man who goes around trying to be a personal teacher to young women may have ungodly motivations, but that isn't always true. They could be becoming friends, they could even get married someday and love each other and have a great life together. My gut also tells me that any man so concerned with a young lady could have romantic feelings towards her as well.

Either way, in my experience, I think this is good to keep in mind: The path people walk to God and spiritual maturity will not be a straight shot. We will become decieved numerous times and have to seek truth to find our way out. We have to experience hardship, we have to make bad choices. We have to hurt and hurt others. I don't think spiritual maturity comes any other way. Just keep having faith friend, God is good. Keep praying and I will pray for the situation also.
 
U

Ukorin

Guest
#16
#16
Leadfoot5311 said:
I just wanted to put up a clarification post... I feel that I may have been somewhat "Blinded by anger" when I posted the initial post. After a couple days, I've tried to settle down, and I'm going to try to clear some things up.

When I was in the 3-way conversation with my friend and her "Teacher", I said that he was a smooth talker. I felt overwhelmed and intimidated by how fast he was talking, how many subjects he would go over, and where I would try to call him out on doctrine, he would glaze over or "sidestep" subject so quickly, you lose track of the conversation. So I'd say I felt like a fool because I couldn't "keep up with him".

And then in regards to the "attacking me", thinking back about it, I don't really feel like it was an attack. He may have had good intentions, but it seemed to come off a little antagonistic. It was tough, because some things the guy was saying was very tough to hear, like saying my pastor (who is one of the most knowledgeable people I know in regards to scripture) "Should read the bible and actually LEARN something", I felt it was tough...

So, just saying, there is more to the story than I let on, but the point of this doesn't change. I am still very concerned for my friend's salvation, and what I've noticed is that the teachings of Church of Christ are quite difficult. I've cross referenced the teachings with pastors, my mother and my stepfather, and they are very concerned for my friend as well.

So prayers are definitely appreciated. Thank you!
Click to expand...
Remember this when dealing with a fast talker: slow down.
Let them talk,
and try to think while they talk, responding with "mhm" at most.
Focus on the general pull of the (one-sided) conversation, rather than individual points.
Once you have a grasp of something very clear to respond with, say it briefly, and then allow them to continue talking.

Wait for them to spill their real intent (or heresy) before making any major defense or offense argument.
 
J

JustinFromTwinCities

Guest
#17
#17
And I would consider this to be a type of "trial" for you as well. All trials can teach us to be like and conform us to Christ. Its important to thank God for our trials and our "enemies". Without them, we would not mature. Love is our goal, without love we have nothing. (Real love, as defined in 1 Corinthians 13 ). Always be mindful of how the trials we are facing are forcing us to grow. Thank God for hardship of all sorts. They are blessings and the hand of our Father raising us. Love even conquers doctrinal errors. If your friend seeks, she will find. If she doesn't seek, she won't find.

I know I'm going all over the place so ill just stop there
 
ThomistColin

ThomistColin

Banned
#18
Nov 30, 2012
2,396
26
0
#18
Leadfoot5311 said:
The part that makes me quite nervous about the Church of Christ is that they are proclaiming you need to do the work of Baptism to "acquire" your salvation. Here's a practical situation where I feel this philosophy is flawed.

My grandmother passed away May 28th 2013. She grew up with her parents being Catholic, but she professed as an atheist for the majority of her life. The day before she passed away, she finally accepted Christ into her heart. She was not baptized.

Under the Word of God, it says she would be saved. Under Church of Christ teaching, she's in Hell. I'll take the Word of God, please!
Click to expand...
Do remember the difference though between desire/intention and circumstance. By circumstance she was not baptized. But had she lived, she would have obeyed Christ and been baptized. God knows our desires and our intentions, and they will be judged as much as our actions.
 
N

newlife7

Guest
#19
#19
i would tell her straight up how different there doctrine is from the word of God. I do not know all their beliefs myself.
 
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newlife7

Guest
#20
#20
Christians preform miracles everyday!
 
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