What the Early Church believed about salvation

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B

Bazman

Guest
#1
Hi All,

Found this on the You tube always worth finding out what the Early Church believed.....

[video=youtube;jIL77EaJad4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIL77EaJad4[/video]
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#2
How about a synopsis? No one is going to take an hour and four minutes to view that video. Sorry.
 
B

Bazman

Guest
#3
How about a synopsis? No one is going to take an hour and four minutes to view that video. Sorry.
Hi,

The guy who presents it produces what a number of early church fathers professed to be the gospel. These people like Clement, Polycarp etc were followers of the actual apostles.

Salvation to them was essentially a two part thing. We are saved by grace as the Bible states but we must hold onto this to the end which the Bible also shows. Which sadly some today would reject those people who are of Easy Believism...

The preacher who shows what the Early Church believe then compares with scripture to show this.

Having said all this I really recommend listening to it because the guy preaching this reads out these letters these early christians wrote and also compares it with the Bible and as you can imagine it lines up very well.

I am not as good as saying it as they would so please it is only 1 hour well worth listening to.

God Bless.
 
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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#4
Clement of Rome: "We also, being called through God's will in Christ Jesus, are not justified through ourselves, neither through our own wisdom or understanding, or piety, or works which we have done in holiness or heart, but through faith" (Epistle to Corinthians).

Polycarp: "I know that through grace you are saved, not of works, but by the will of God, through Jesus Christ (Epistle of Philippians).

Saving faith in Christ is faith that endures to the end and is not some shallow temporary belief that has no root.
 
B

Bazman

Guest
#5
Anyway, I am going to investigate further what the Early Church believers believed on salvation and maybe some other things as well which as you can imagine the preacher on the video says to see if he is really speaking their words ie that he isn't taking anything out of context.

God Bless.
 
U

Ukorin

Guest
#6
Clement of Rome: "We also, being called through God's will in Christ Jesus, are not justified through ourselves, neither through our own wisdom or understanding, or piety, or works which we have done in holiness or heart, but through faith" (Epistle to Corinthians).

Polycarp: "I know that through grace you are saved, not of works, but by the will of God, through Jesus Christ (Epistle of Philippians).

Saving faith in Christ is faith that endures to the end and is not some shallow temporary belief that has no root.
I'm almost halfway through the message.
For now, my comment would be that the speaker has built a very weak straw-man of "Faith-Alone doctrine in evangelical circles".
I will not be surprised when he knocks it over, but I also won't be convinced.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
#7
Anyway, I am going to investigate further what the Early Church believers believed on salvation and maybe some other things as well which as you can imagine the preacher on the video says to see if he is really speaking their words ie that he isn't taking anything out of context.

God Bless.
What's wrong with Peter, Paul, John, Jude and James, etc.? They were actually there!
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#8
So it's not a first hand account? That places it into the realm of more speculation than fact.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
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#9
So it's not a first hand account? That places it into the realm of more speculation than fact.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
or at least 'he said/she said' as we find much differences amongst the Church Fathers.
 
P

PWE

Guest
#10

Things early church leaders believed about salvation:

Justin Martyr (110-165 A.D.)
"And for this rite we have learned from the apostles this reason...obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins."

Tertullian (145-220 A.D.) "The act of baptism is carnal, in that we are plunged in water, but the effect is spiritual, in that we a freed from our sins."

Cyril of Jerusalem (315-386 A.D) "Great is the baptism that lies before you: a ransom to captives: a remission of offenses; a death of sin; a new-birth of the soul;...a chariot to Heaven;...a welcome into the Kingdom; the gift of adoption!"

Augustine (354-430 A.D.) Augustine is one of the most revered theologians in Church history. Augustine wrote that Baptism is "the sacrament of redemption." It "brings salvation." We are "saved by baptism." "The salvation of man is effected in baptism." He also refers to the "Apostolic tradition, by which the churches of Christ maintain it to be an inherent principle, that without baptism it is impossible for any man to attain to salvation and everlasting life." He confirms that it is impossible to receive salvation without baptism!

Thomas Aquinos (1225-1274 A.D.)
A leading theologian wrote, "but for this end is baptism conferred on a man, that being regenerated thereby, he may be incorporated in Christ," and "without Baptism there is no salvation for men."


Martin Luther (1483-1546 A.D.) "What gifts or benefits does baptism bestow?," Luther says,"It effects forgiveness of sins." Also: "Through baptism (the sinner) is bathed in the blood of Christ and is cleansed from sins." So Luther, the champion of Justification by Faith, states firmly that baptism effects forgiveness of sins and cleanses us from sins! Again, he wrote: "To put it most simply, the power, effect, benefit, fruit, and purpose of Baptism is to save." In response to those who would call this a kind of works-salvation, he said "Yes, it is true that our works are of no use for salvation. Baptism, however, is not our work but God's."
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
2,987
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New Zealand
#11
Yeah.. again depends what the OP means by 'church'

If you are talking about the universal catholic church-well that didn't establish itself till about AD 200 +

If you are talking about the independent christian churches that have direct links to the likes of Phillipi, Antioch,etc.. well.. they didn't really write a lot about what they believed about eternal life. They relied completely on the Word of God.

Word of God in context..will give you what the earliest christians believed.

'Church' fathers? There are leaders in the Catholic universal church back then and then later the reformed church leaders..

but there have always been seperate, independent christian churches that didn't need to reform, nor were catholic.

So it's the bible in context that defines what eternal salvation is.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,612
274
83
#12
Yeah.. again depends what the OP means by 'church'

If you are talking about the universal catholic church-well that didn't establish itself till about AD 200 +

If you are talking about the independent christian churches that have direct links to the likes of Phillipi, Antioch,etc.. well.. they didn't really write a lot about what they believed about eternal life. They relied completely on the Word of God.

Word of God in context..will give you what the earliest christians believed.

'Church' fathers? There are leaders in the Catholic universal church back then and then later the reformed church leaders..

but there have always been seperate, independent christian churches that didn't need to reform, nor were catholic.

So it's the bible in context that defines what eternal salvation is.
Just wondering about this statement of yours:
but there have always been seperate, independent christian churches that didn't need to reform, nor were catholic.
Can you show any kind of succession of these various groups? If you identify with this loose set of very different kind of beliefs (not seldom infighting and splintering) then ultimately you would identify with groups who believed very far from what you believe today.

This is the problem I see with this, mainly baptist, loose talk about "small persecuted groups of believers outside all church systems". Because when you actually study up carefully on these groups (for example the waldensians) you'll soon find how far they are from various baptist churches of our day in regards to practices and beliefs. The reformation, rightly so, never had the intention of starting up a new church or sect of some sort. While enthusiasts or "radicals", before and after the anabaptists, always set for the adventurous.
 
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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#13

Things early church leaders believed about salvation:

Martin Luther (1483-1546 A.D.) "What gifts or benefits does baptism bestow?," Luther says,"It effects forgiveness of sins." Also: "Through baptism (the sinner) is bathed in the blood of Christ and is cleansed from sins." So Luther, the champion of Justification by Faith, states firmly that baptism effects forgiveness of sins and cleanses us from sins! Again, he wrote: "To put it most simply, the power, effect, benefit, fruit, and purpose of Baptism is to save." In response to those who would call this a kind of works-salvation, he said "Yes, it is true that our works are of no use for salvation. Baptism, however, is not our work but God's."
That is not salvation through FAITH ALONE but salvation through faith AND BAPTISM. Martin Luther said, "We are saved by FAITH ALONE, but the faith that saves is never alone." Saved by baptism/saved by faith alone is a contradiction. How is water baptism God's work? Man performs the work of water baptism and God performs the work of Spirit baptism (Matthew 3:11; Acts 1:5; 11:16). By Jesus getting water baptized, it was a part of Him "fulfilling all righteousness" (Matthew 3:13-15). Water baptism is a work of righteousness and we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done (Titus 3:5). Faith is not baptism and faith precedes baptism and we are saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8). It's just that simple. The forgiveness of sins is signified, yet not procured in the waters of baptism (Acts 10:43-47).
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#14

Things early church leaders believed about salvation:

Justin Martyr (110-165 A.D.)
"And for this rite we have learned from the apostles this reason...obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins."

Tertullian (145-220 A.D.) "The act of baptism is carnal, in that we are plunged in water, but the effect is spiritual, in that we a freed from our sins."

Cyril of Jerusalem (315-386 A.D) "Great is the baptism that lies before you: a ransom to captives: a remission of offenses; a death of sin; a new-birth of the soul;...a chariot to Heaven;...a welcome into the Kingdom; the gift of adoption!"

Augustine (354-430 A.D.) Augustine is one of the most revered theologians in Church history. Augustine wrote that Baptism is "the sacrament of redemption." It "brings salvation." We are "saved by baptism." "The salvation of man is effected in baptism." He also refers to the "Apostolic tradition, by which the churches of Christ maintain it to be an inherent principle, that without baptism it is impossible for any man to attain to salvation and everlasting life." He confirms that it is impossible to receive salvation without baptism!

Thomas Aquinos (1225-1274 A.D.)
A leading theologian wrote, "but for this end is baptism conferred on a man, that being regenerated thereby, he may be incorporated in Christ," and "without Baptism there is no salvation for men."


Martin Luther (1483-1546 A.D.) "What gifts or benefits does baptism bestow?," Luther says,"It effects forgiveness of sins." Also: "Through baptism (the sinner) is bathed in the blood of Christ and is cleansed from sins." So Luther, the champion of Justification by Faith, states firmly that baptism effects forgiveness of sins and cleanses us from sins! Again, he wrote: "To put it most simply, the power, effect, benefit, fruit, and purpose of Baptism is to save." In response to those who would call this a kind of works-salvation, he said "Yes, it is true that our works are of no use for salvation. Baptism, however, is not our work but God's."

I wouldnt quote Luther on anything.He was very anti-semitic unfortunately.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#15
Christian author, C. S. Lewis, compared grace and works to the blades of a pair of scissors. Both are necessary. To ask “Are you saved by grace or works?” is like asking “Do you cut with this blade or that one?” excerpt from Tough Topics,Are You Saved by Grace...

James says...
[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.[/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] We are saved by grace but because of that or works show show through if we truly are saved.[/FONT]

 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,001
13,008
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#16

Things early church leaders believed about salvation:

Tertullian (145-220 A.D.) "The act of baptism is carnal, in that we are plunged in water, but the effect is spiritual, in that we a freed from our sins."
Roman Catholics love to quote the church fathers in there effort to support baptismal regeneration. That settles the question for the Roman Catholic, who is amazed that Evangelical Christians have the audacity to disagree with these fathers on this matter. It may come as a surprise that Roman Catholics too do not follow their practice. For example it was common practice that the candidate was immersed three times, whereas the modern Catholic rite consists of pouring water on the head. Before baptism, the candidate was anointed with "oil of exorcism" while the presbyter prayed, "Let all spirits flee far away from you." Apart from the fact that there is no scriptural warrant for this anointing, they were also mistaken in their belief that this oil served for the remission of sins even before baptism:

Now this is blessed by the high priest for the remission of sins, and the first preparation for baptism. For he calls thus upon the unbegotten God, the Father of Christ, the King of all sensible and intelligible natures, that He would sanctify the oil in the name of the Lord Jesus, and impart to it spiritual grace and efficacious strength, the remission of sins, and the first preparation for the confession of baptism, that so the candidate for baptism, when he is anointed may be freed from all ungodliness, and may become worthy of initiation, according to the command of the Only-begotten (Apostolic Constitutions, XLII)

During baptism, the candidates had to remove their clothing and stand naked in the water. The newly baptized was not allowed to take a bath for a whole week. We do not feel obliged to follow these fathers in their unscriptural inventions, changing the simple ordinance of Christ into a superstition, not to mention their disregard for public decency. (See Tertullian, The Crown; St Hippolytus of Rome, The Apostolic Tradition). These are the same people who insisted on baptismal regeneration.

Do you agree with this statement from the Catholic Answers website? - "As we will see, there is no doubt that the early Church practiced infant baptism; and no Christian objections to this practice were ever voiced until the Reformation." Do you believe that iNFANT baptism is scriptural? The Roman Catholic church even quotes the church fathers to back up their claim:

120-205 AD IRENAEUS "As we are lepers in sin, we are made clean from our old transgressions by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord. We are thus spiritually regenerated as newborn infants, even as the Lord has declared: 'Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.'" (Irenaeus, "Fragments From Lost Writings", no. 34, Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 1, pg. 574). *Question: Do NEWBORN INFANTS repent and believe the gospel? Are they candidates for water baptism? Answer: NO and NO. Do you agree or disagree?

Origen - "Every soul that is born into flesh is soiled by the filth of wickedness and sin. . . . In the Church, baptism is given for the remission of sins, and, according to the usage of the Church, baptism is given even to infants. If there were nothing in infants which required the remission of sins and nothing in them pertinent to forgiveness, the grace of baptism would seem superfluous" (Homilies on Leviticus 8:3 [A.D. 248]). *Do you agree with Origen about infant baptism?

John Chrysostom - "You see how many are the benefits of baptism, and some think its heavenly grace consists only in the remission of sins, but we have enumerated ten honors [it bestows]! For this reason we baptize even infants, though they are not defiled by [personal] sins, so that there may be given to them holiness, righteousness, adoption, inheritance, brotherhood with Christ, and that they may be his [Christ’s] members" (Baptismal Catecheses in Augustine, Against Julian 1:6:21 [A.D. 388]).

Augustine - "The custom of Mother Church in baptizing infants is certainly not to be scorned, nor is it to be regarded in any way as superfluous, nor is it to be believed that its tradition is anything except apostolic" (The Literal Interpretation of Genesis 10:23:39 [A.D. 408]). *Does that sound apostolic to you or does that sound Roman Catholic?

"Cyprian was not issuing a new decree but was keeping to the most solid belief of the Church in order to correct some who thought that infants ought not be baptized before the eighth day after their birth. . . . He agreed with certain of his fellow bishops that a child is able to be duly baptized as soon as he is born" (Letters 166:8:23 [A.D. 412]).

"By this grace baptized infants too are ingrafted into his [Christ’s] body, infants who certainly are not yet able to imitate anyone. Christ, in whom all are made alive . . . gives also the most hidden grace of his Spirit to believers, grace which he secretly infuses even into infants. . . . It is an excellent thing that the Punic [North African] Christians call baptism salvation and the sacrament of Christ’s Body nothing else than life. Whence does this derive, except from an ancient and, as I suppose, apostolic tradition, by which the churches of Christ hold inherently that without baptism and participation at the table of the Lord it is impossible for any man to attain either to the kingdom of God or to salvation and life eternal? This is the witness of Scripture, too. . . . If anyone wonders why children born of the baptized should themselves be baptized, let him attend briefly to this. . . . The sacrament of baptism is most assuredly the sacrament of regeneration" (Forgiveness and the Just Deserts of Sin, and the Baptism of Infants 1:9:10; 1:24:34; 2:27:43 [A.D. 412].

Council of Mileum II - "Whoever says that infants fresh from their mothers’ wombs ought not to be baptized, or say that they are indeed baptized unto the remission of sins, but that they draw nothing of the original sin of Adam, which is expiated in the bath of regeneration . . . let him be anathema. Since what the apostle [Paul] says, ‘Through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so passed to all men, in whom all have sinned’ [Rom. 5:12], must not be understood otherwise than the Catholic Church spread everywhere has always understood it. For on account of this rule of faith even infants, who in themselves thus far have not been able to commit any sin, are therefore truly baptized unto the remission of sins, so that that which they have contracted from generation may be cleansed in them by regeneration" (Canon 3 [A.D. 416]). *Fresh infants from their mothers' wombs should be baptized? Yeah right! Do you believe this nonsense? *So much for these fallible writings of fallible men!

I was reading an article in "The Ex-Catholic Journal" that says some of the writings attributed to the church fathers have been found to be forgeries, while others have been taken out of context. Doctrines such as the Immaculate Conception, the Assumption, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the papacy, purgatory and transubstantiation are alleged to be supported in these early writings. I hear Roman Catholics quote the church fathers a lot to support their doctrines. The article went on to say that most of the copies of copies of copies of the church fathers that we possess today were copied during the time that the Roman Catholic church controlled the flow of literature in Europe. That would explain a lot! We do not have any original copies of their writings, only copies of copies of copies. God promised to preserve HIS WORD, the Bible, but not the fallible writings of these fallible men.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,001
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#17

Things early church leaders believed about salvation:

Justin Martyr (110-165 A.D.)
"And for this rite we have learned from the apostles this reason...obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins."

Tertullian (145-220 A.D.) "The act of baptism is carnal, in that we are plunged in water, but the effect is spiritual, in that we a freed from our sins."

Cyril of Jerusalem (315-386 A.D) "Great is the baptism that lies before you: a ransom to captives: a remission of offenses; a death of sin; a new-birth of the soul;...a chariot to Heaven;...a welcome into the Kingdom; the gift of adoption!"

Augustine (354-430 A.D.) Augustine is one of the most revered theologians in Church history. Augustine wrote that Baptism is "the sacrament of redemption." It "brings salvation." We are "saved by baptism." "The salvation of man is effected in baptism." He also refers to the "Apostolic tradition, by which the churches of Christ maintain it to be an inherent principle, that without baptism it is impossible for any man to attain to salvation and everlasting life." He confirms that it is impossible to receive salvation without baptism!

Thomas Aquinos (1225-1274 A.D.)
A leading theologian wrote, "but for this end is baptism conferred on a man, that being regenerated thereby, he may be incorporated in Christ," and "without Baptism there is no salvation for men."


Martin Luther (1483-1546 A.D.) "What gifts or benefits does baptism bestow?," Luther says,"It effects forgiveness of sins." Also: "Through baptism (the sinner) is bathed in the blood of Christ and is cleansed from sins." So Luther, the champion of Justification by Faith, states firmly that baptism effects forgiveness of sins and cleanses us from sins! Again, he wrote: "To put it most simply, the power, effect, benefit, fruit, and purpose of Baptism is to save." In response to those who would call this a kind of works-salvation, he said "Yes, it is true that our works are of no use for salvation. Baptism, however, is not our work but God's."
How do these quotes from the church fathers above harmonize with these quotes from the church fathers below? They don't. That's why I ultimately trust in "THUS SAITH THE LORD" and not "thus saith the church fathers."

Clement of Rome: "We also, being called through God's will in Christ Jesus, are not justified through ourselves, neither through our own wisdom or understanding, or piety, or works which we have done in holiness or heart, but through faith" (Epistle to Corinthians).

Polycarp: "I know that through grace you are saved, not of works, but by the will of God, through Jesus Christ (Epistle of Philippians).

Justin Martyr: "No longer by the blood of goats and of sheep, or by the ashes of a heifer...are sins purged, but by faith, through the blood of Christ and his death, who died on this very account (Dialogue with Trypho). "God gave his own Son the ransom for us...for what, save his righteousness, could cover our sins. In whom was it possible that we, transgressors and ungodly as we were, could be justified, save in the Son of God alone? ...O unexpected benefit, that the transgression of many should be hidden in one righteous Person and that the righteousness of One should justify many transgressors" (Letter to Diognetus).

Athanasius: "Not by these (i.e. human efforts) but by faith, a man is justified as was Abraham."

Basil: "This is the true and perfect glorying in God, when a man is not lifted up on account of his own righteousness, but has known himself to be wanting in true righteousness and to be justified by FAITH ALONE in Christ."

Ambrose: "Without the works of the law, to an ungodly man, that is to say, a Gentile, believing in Christ, his "faith is imputed for righteousness" as also it was to Abraham."

Origen: "Through fai​th, without the works of the law, the dying thief was justified, because...the Lord inquired not what he had previously wrought, nor yet waited for his performance of some work after he should have believe; but...he took him unto himself for a companion, justified through his confession alone." *The thief was unable to get baptized.

Jerome: "When an ungodly man is converted, God justified him through FAITH ALONE, not on account of good works which he possessed not."

Chrysostom: "What then did God do? He made (says Paul) a righteous Person (Christ) to be a sinner, in order that he might make sinners righteous... it is the righteousness of God, when we are justified, not by works...but by grace, where all sin is made to vanish away."

Chrysostom: "Again, they said that he who adhered to FAITH ALONE was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to FAITH ALONE, is blessed."

Augustine: "Grace is give to you, not wages paid to you...it is called grace because it is given gratuitously. By no precedent merits did you buy what you have received. The sinner therefore received this grace first, that his sins should be forgiven him...good works follow after a justified person; they do not go before in order that he may be justified...good works, following after justification, show what a man has received."

Augustine: "Now, having duly considered and weighed all these circumstances and testimonies, we conclude that a man is not justified by the precepts of a holy life, but by faith in Jesus Christ,--in a word, not by the law of works, but by the law of faith; not by the letter, but by the spirit; not by the merits of deeds, but by free grace."

Anselm: "Do you believe that you cannot be saved but by the death of Christ? Go, then, and ...put all your confidence in this death alone. If God shall say to you, "You are a sinner", say to him, "I place the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between me and my sin."

Bernard of Clairvaux: "Shall not all our righteousness turn out to be mere unrighteousness and deficiency? What, then, shall it be concerning our sins, when not even our righteousness can answer for itself? Wherefore...let us flee, with all humility to Mercy which alone can save our souls...whoever hungers and thirsts after righteousness, let him believe in thee, who "justified the ungodly"; and thus, being justified by FAITH ALONE, he shall have peace with God."
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#18
Hi,

The guy who presents it produces what a number of early church fathers professed to be the gospel. These people like Clement, Polycarp etc were followers of the actual apostles.

Salvation to them was essentially a two part thing. We are saved by grace as the Bible states but we must hold onto this to the end which the Bible also shows. Which sadly some today would reject those people who are of Easy Believism...

The preacher who shows what the Early Church believe then compares with scripture to show this.

Having said all this I really recommend listening to it because the guy preaching this reads out these letters these early christians wrote and also compares it with the Bible and as you can imagine it lines up very well.

I am not as good as saying it as they would so please it is only 1 hour well worth listening to.

God Bless.

How bout we stick to the bible. no some called self professed early church fathers.

The bible states we are saved by grace through faith. If anything else must be added it is not of grace it is of works.

What ever happened to test each spirit to see if it is from God?

Easy believing is not saved by grave through faith alone, people prove how hard that is all the time, by adding some kind of work.

in fact the hardest thing our flesh can do is sit still, and allow someone else to save you (by you placing your faith in him) without trying to help him in some way.

easy believism in fact is getting saved by faith, then trying to endure.. because your faith is not real. it is based on what you see (in yourself) and you get to make up the standard.
 
Dec 26, 2014
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#19
I wouldnt quote Luther on anything.He was very anti-semitic unfortunately.
test everything. martin luther was an instrument/vessel God used to bring salvation by faith back to however many people , saving them from the utterly black history and darkness of the rdd(sic) abomination heresy.

if and when any of the so called 'church fathers' are used to promote heresy, that is a deadly error, and many of them were not saved as well.

martin luther and those who came after him were used to set people free from sin, including setting free from the heresy of all the history and doctrines of catholicism.

yes, some of what martin luther espoused, spoke or taught was antisemitic, so yes, test everything - remember that martin luther grew up at a time when the rdd(sic) doctrines were to murder everyone who would not be paying homage to the pope(who was hasatan's representative on earth, and still is) , jew and gentile alike. so the continuing freedom from the utter complete darkness of the practices of 'christendom' in catholicism took time, step by step, in God's Purpose and Plan in Jesus.


just like if and when a moslem or isalm or hindu or republican or capitilist (anyone trained to be or just naturally greedy or selfish) turns to learn the truth, their journey is often a long and arduous one, and may take a lifetime of continually being set free from their errors and learning to obey the truth in jesus.
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#20
Hi,

The guy who presents it produces what a number of early church fathers professed to be the gospel. These people like Clement, Polycarp etc were followers of the actual apostles.

Salvation to them was essentially a two part thing. We are saved by grace as the Bible states but we must hold onto this to the end which the Bible also shows.
As "followers" of the early apostles, they should have known better. For that, I don't need to watch an hour-long-plus video to understand that there were wrong.

Which sadly some today would reject those people who are of Easy Believism...
People toss around the term "easy believism" as though it is something bad, doctrinally imperfect, just plain wrong. I have a newsflash for those who disparage saving faith as "easy believism": That is the Gospel. The only thing necessary for salvation is faith. It is God-given, we are unable to even seek God on our own. What many fail to grasp is that, as people begin seeking Him, it is the draw of the Holy Spirit that gives them that impetus.

Their salvation is the sole work of Christ, the sole result of grace, the sole result of grace-generated faith, the sole glory belonging to God, with the sole source of our strength and peace coming from His word, the Scriptures. End of story. THe mistake the people who chuck around negative terms like "easy believism" make is thinking that everyone who professes Christ actually is a saved. That is not the case.

Emotional reaction to the initial contact a person has with the Gospel can cause them to cry out His name, but that doesn't mean there has been a spirit-change -- a heart-change, if you will -- within them.

Intellectual assent to the Gospel can occur. Upon hearing and understanding the simplicity of the Gospel, it suddenly makes sense, and they say, "Yes, I believe that." Again, that doesn't mean there has been a spirit-change within them.

Salvation comes only when a true impact on the human spirit is made by the truth of the Gospel -- that "piercing to the division of sole and spirit" as spoken of by the writer of Hebrews. Only when that piercing convicts, and only when a confession escapes from that suddenly-exposed spirit that cries out, "YES! I AM A SINNER IN NEED OF A SAVIOR!", and only when God acknowledges that cry as a true and faithful confession of the sinner's state and the desire for God to change it, does salvation occur.

Then, as the realization of how much love it took for Christ to die on the cross for every single person in the world -- knowing that many if not most of them would eventually accept that work as necessary for their lives -- the one now saved by grace, faith, the work of Christ, as evidence in the Scriptures, to the glory of God begins to grow in truth and knowledge, as did Christ. That one is led by the Holy Spirit within, to love God back, and in loving Him, to do His will.

People who make the mistake of throwing around the epithet "easy believism" make the mistake of thinking their work means anything. Isaiah told us 2,800 years ago they are as "filthy garments" -- menstrual rags. They are worthless, both before our salvation, and after. Our works are prepared beforehand by Christ Jesus, to be done to His glory and according to His will. They are not to keep a salvation we had nothing to do with, but to love God because He loves us.

Got that? God Bless.
 
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