Tired of the Big LIE

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#1
For the record....I am tired of the fact that people who teach you can loose your salvation continually spread concerning people who believe in the security of the believer....

We believe that once a person trusts into the saving faith of Christ they are saved, sealed and justified forever.

It is the spirit that is born of God, does not sin, is eternally secure in the perfect faith of JESUS

WE do not teach that this is license to sin beyond degree or live anyway we want<--this is the LIE that is spread by those who teach you can loose your salvation.

The bible teaches clearly that EVERYONE sins and that is why JOHN writes....IF WE CONFESS our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins<--NO WHERE does he say that you are reborn because you lost it.

The bible teaches that if we say that we have NO SIN (PRESENT TENSE) the truth is NOT IN US AND WE ARE DECIEVED.

I AM TIRED of PEOPLE MISREPRESENTING the TRUTH and APPLYING THINGS AND SAYINGS to US that we do not teach and or PROMOTE.....



 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
24,799
8,103
113
#2
We have many threads debating once-saved-always-saved. Is this another?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#3
We have many threads debating once-saved-always-saved. Is this another?
No offence, but it is self explanatory........declaration does not equate debate!
 
3

3Scoreand10

Guest
#5
For the record....I am tired of the fact that people who teach you can loose your salvation continually spread concerning people who believe in the security of the believer....

We believe that once a person trusts into the saving faith of Christ they are saved, sealed and justified forever.

It is the spirit that is born of God, does not sin, is eternally secure in the perfect faith of JESUS

WE do not teach that this is license to sin beyond degree or live anyway we want<--this is the LIE that is spread by those who teach you can loose your salvation.

The bible teaches clearly that EVERYONE sins and that is why JOHN writes....IF WE CONFESS our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins<--NO WHERE does he say that you are reborn because you lost it.

The bible teaches that if we say that we have NO SIN (PRESENT TENSE) the truth is NOT IN US AND WE ARE DECIEVED.

I AM TIRED of PEOPLE MISREPRESENTING the TRUTH and APPLYING THINGS AND SAYINGS to US that we do not teach and or PROMOTE.....



.

You are 100% right.
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#6
The following statement were made by Baptist preachers, and other proponents, of the false teaching sometimes called "Eternal Security":

All true believers endure to the end. Those whom God has accepted in Christ, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never fall away from the State of grace, but shall persevere to the end. Believers may fall into sin through neglect and temptation, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, bring reproach on the cause of Christ, and temporal judgments on themselves, yet they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation” [V. God’s Power of Grace—from a statement adopted by the Southern Baptist Convention May 9, 1963].

“We take the position that a Christian's sins do not damn his soul. The way a Christian lives, what he says, his character, his conduct, or his attitude toward other people have nothing whatever to do with the salvation of his soul... All the prayers a man may pray, all the Bibles he may read, all the churches he may belong to, all the services he may attend, all the sermons he may practice, all the debts he may pay, all the ordinances he may observe, all the laws he may keep, all the benevolent acts he may per-form will not make his soul one whit safer; and all the sins he may commit from idolatry to murder will not make his soul in any more danger... The way a man lives has nothing whatever to do with the salvation of his soul... The way I live has nothing whatsoever to do with the salvation of my soul" [Do a Christian’s Sins Damn His Soul?]. Sam Morris, Baptist preacher, Stamford, TX

Hoyt Chastain was a Missionary Baptist preacher who defended, in public debate, the idea that a child of God cannot fall from grace. In one debate Chastain affirmed that he could abandon his wife and children, move in with a sixteen-year-old girl, and the Lord would take the situation and “work it out for his good.”


Baptist preacher, 54-year-old J. L. Pettit, seduced a fourteen-year-old girl. He was arrested and brought to trial. The girl swore on the witness stand that the minister told her their sexual activity was merely a “matter of the flesh,” and it would not “bother the soul.

Bill Foster, Baptist preacher in Louisville, KY commented: "If I killed my wife and mother and debauched a thousand women, I couldn't go to hell -- in fact, I couldn't go to hell if I wanted to. If on the judgment day, I should find that my loved ones are lost and should lose all desire to be saved, and should beg God to send me to hell with them, He couldn't do it" (The Weekly Worker, March 12, 1959).


Sources:
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/25-the-president-adultery-and-baptist-rules
Is "Once Saved -- Always Saved?" a Bible Doctrine?



Simple question: are the above statement all in accord with the teaching known as "Eternal Security"?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#7
Ignorant statements made by men in haste does not disprove eternal security, nor does it prove the heretical doctrine that one can loose salvation and or the eternal security that is found in the perfect faith of Christ!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#8
The following statement were made by Baptist preachers, and other proponents, of the false teaching sometimes called "Eternal Security":

All true believers endure to the end. Those whom God has accepted in Christ, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never fall away from the State of grace, but shall persevere to the end. Believers may fall into sin through neglect and temptation, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, bring reproach on the cause of Christ, and temporal judgments on themselves, yet they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation” [V. God’s Power of Grace—from a statement adopted by the Southern Baptist Convention May 9, 1963].

“We take the position that a Christian's sins do not damn his soul. The way a Christian lives, what he says, his character, his conduct, or his attitude toward other people have nothing whatever to do with the salvation of his soul... All the prayers a man may pray, all the Bibles he may read, all the churches he may belong to, all the services he may attend, all the sermons he may practice, all the debts he may pay, all the ordinances he may observe, all the laws he may keep, all the benevolent acts he may per-form will not make his soul one whit safer; and all the sins he may commit from idolatry to murder will not make his soul in any more danger... The way a man lives has nothing whatever to do with the salvation of his soul... The way I live has nothing whatsoever to do with the salvation of my soul" [Do a Christian’s Sins Damn His Soul?]. Sam Morris, Baptist preacher, Stamford, TX

Hoyt Chastain was a Missionary Baptist preacher who defended, in public debate, the idea that a child of God cannot fall from grace. In one debate Chastain affirmed that he could abandon his wife and children, move in with a sixteen-year-old girl, and the Lord would take the situation and “work it out for his good.”


Baptist preacher, 54-year-old J. L. Pettit, seduced a fourteen-year-old girl. He was arrested and brought to trial. The girl swore on the witness stand that the minister told her their sexual activity was merely a “matter of the flesh,” and it would not “bother the soul.

Bill Foster, Baptist preacher in Louisville, KY commented: "If I killed my wife and mother and debauched a thousand women, I couldn't go to hell -- in fact, I couldn't go to hell if I wanted to. If on the judgment day, I should find that my loved ones are lost and should lose all desire to be saved, and should beg God to send me to hell with them, He couldn't do it" (The Weekly Worker, March 12, 1959).


Sources:
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/25-the-president-adultery-and-baptist-rules
Is "Once Saved -- Always Saved?" a Bible Doctrine?



Simple question: are the above statement all in accord with the teaching known as "Eternal Security"?
Ignorant statements made by men in haste does not disprove eternal security, nor does it prove the heretical doctrine that one can loose salvation and or the eternal security that is found in the perfect faith of Christ!
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#9
For the record....I am tired of the fact that people who teach you can loose your salvation continually spread concerning people who believe in the security of the believer....

We believe that once a person trusts into the saving faith of Christ they are saved, sealed and justified forever.

It is the spirit that is born of God, does not sin, is eternally secure in the perfect faith of JESUS

WE do not teach that this is license to sin beyond degree or live anyway we want<--this is the LIE that is spread by those who teach you can loose your salvation.

The bible teaches clearly that EVERYONE sins and that is why JOHN writes....IF WE CONFESS our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins<--NO WHERE does he say that you are reborn because you lost it.

The bible teaches that if we say that we have NO SIN (PRESENT TENSE) the truth is NOT IN US AND WE ARE DECIEVED.

I AM TIRED of PEOPLE MISREPRESENTING the TRUTH and APPLYING THINGS AND SAYINGS to US that we do not teach and or PROMOTE.....





I get that this is not an osas thread, but one lamenting that many (some?) of those who say one can give away their salvation claim that osas'ers are presenting a license to sin. DCon says that's not true and I agree with that. Whether osas or not, either way we will be judged according to our works and in that guise, either way we do not have license to sin.

Osas'ers may be wrong :) but they do not promote license to sin.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#10
This is what it comes down to...for some you must have a acceptable amount of doubt to have saving faith....doubt is not faith!
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#11
Ignorant statements made by men in haste does not disprove eternal security, nor does it prove the heretical doctrine that one can loose salvation and or the eternal security that is found in the perfect faith of Christ!

You did not prove their statements to be wrong/ignorant. The fact is, if eternal security is true then those statements are 100% correct and you are the one wrong.
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,991
337
83
#12

I don't think a believer can lose their salvation, God is true to His promise and He does not forsake us.. God is unchanging, but we aren't.. I personally know people who were once Christian, but are now agnostic.. So in that respect, I believe that a "one time" Christian can lose their salvation.. OSAS presumes a person can never have a change of heart, but I've witnessed some Christians who have completely lost faith and now reject Christ as their savior. Just because a person temporarily professes Christ, does not guarantee they'll keep the faith or finish the race. For this reason, I believe its misleading to tell a person that its impossible to lose salvation. "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 10:32-33).
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,612
274
83
#13

I don't think a believer can lose their salvation, God is true to His promise and He does not forsake us.. God is unchanging, but we aren't.. I personally know people who were once Christian, but are now agnostic.. So in that respect, I believe that a "one time" Christian can lose their salvation.. OSAS presumes a person can never have a change of heart, but I've witnessed some Christians who have completely lost faith and now reject Christ as their savior. Just because a person temporarily professes Christ, does not guarantee they'll keep the faith or finish the race. For this reason, I believe its misleading to tell a person that its impossible to lose salvation. "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 10:32-33).
This is the problem of the teaching of men like Charles Stanley, who teaches that a saved soul only may believe for "a moment in time" and then go out of the faith into unbelief and yet be saved. Like there is no lasting and enduring fruit of salvation.
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
#14
Ignorant statements made by men in haste does not disprove eternal security, nor does it prove the heretical doctrine that one can loose salvation and or the eternal security that is found in the perfect faith of Christ!
Although I have a decent amount of respect for you, I do not respect you more than either God or His Word. As such, I need to inform you that the "ignorant statements made in haste" and "the heretical doctrine" are at your end. OSAS is a potentially damnable heresy and I'd gladly debate anyone, one on one (to weed out all of the inevitable interference and distractions), on this topic.
 
Jun 30, 2011
2,521
35
0
#15
A lot of people want to be justified by what they do
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
#16
A lot of people want to be justified by what they do
Yea, like Abraham and Rahab...

James chapter 2

[14] What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[15] If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[16] And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
[19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[21] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[22] Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
[23] And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[24] Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[25] Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
[26] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


The scripture wasn't fulfilled which says that Abraham believed God UNTIL he had the corresponding works that lined up with his professed faith.

Somebody will get it...
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#17
Yea, like Abraham and Rahab...

James chapter 2

[14] What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[15] If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[16] And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
[19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[21] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[22] Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
[23] And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[24] Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[25] Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
[26] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


The scripture wasn't fulfilled which says that Abraham believed God UNTIL he had the corresponding works that lined up with his professed faith.

Somebody will get it...
Yeah and Romans teaches that Abraham was/is justified by faith without works...the problem is the inability by those who trust in themselves and their works...they fail to understand that JAMES speaks of our faith be evidenced BEFORE OTHER MEN by the things that we do while rejecting and IGNORING that it is our FAITH that JUSTIFIES us before GOD with the deeds of the law and or works......The bible does not contradict and to use JAMES to prove a works based salvation CONTRADICTS ROMANS and a FAITH BASED salvation and justification......

IT is the perfect faith of JESUS CHRIST that saves us and justifies us even while being SINNERS in the PRESENT TENSE....

GALATIANS teaches that FAITH+WORKS is a heretical, cursed gospel of a different kind, has no power to save and or keep saved and is double cursed by GOD dia PAUL to hell!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#18
A lot of people want to be justified by what they do
Galatians condemns this type of doctrine....

Having begun in the spirit are you now made complete by WORKS....Paul calls them bewitched and fools who have believed and propagate a cursed gospel of a different kind with no power to save.....they will all find out when they go before Jesus and get cast from his presence while claiming their right to enter based upon the MANY WONDERFUL WORKS that they have done in his name..........

LORD, LORD...we have done many wonderful works in YOUR NAME....DEPART from me ye workers of iniquity<---the destiny of those who trust in their works and abilities to save themselves and or keep themselves saved!
 
K

keeth

Guest
#19
For the record....I am tired of the fact that people who teach you can loose your salvation continually spread concerning people who believe in the security of the believer....

We believe that once a person trusts into the saving faith of Christ they are saved, sealed and justified forever.

It is the spirit that is born of God, does not sin, is eternally secure in the perfect faith of JESUS

WE do not teach that this is license to sin beyond degree or live anyway we want<--this is the LIE that is spread by those who teach you can loose your salvation.

The bible teaches clearly that EVERYONE sins and that is why JOHN writes....IF WE CONFESS our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins<--NO WHERE does he say that you are reborn because you lost it.

The bible teaches that if we say that we have NO SIN (PRESENT TENSE) the truth is NOT IN US AND WE ARE DECIEVED.

I AM TIRED of PEOPLE MISREPRESENTING the TRUTH and APPLYING THINGS AND SAYINGS to US that we do not teach and or PROMOTE.....



Freedom comes to us at an infinite cost, the life of the Son of God. Such an unfathomable and precious gift which cost more than we can ever know, will never be taken away from anyone. God who knows the end from the beginning gave the angels and humanity the freedom to choose. He did this knowing full well the eventual cost to Himself far above all others. He decided it was worth it. It is nonsensical to suggest that He would make the ultimate sacrifice required to uphold and maintain freedom, the very means of taking it away from all who would accept that very sacrifice.
 

Chopper

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
402
11
18
#20
Why not see what the Messiah, Yahushua Himself says?

Joh 6:35 And Yahushua said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Joh 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_8:42 Yahushua said unto them, If Elohim were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from Elohim; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Joh_12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Joh_14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Joh 10:25 Yahushua answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Gal_4:6 And because ye are sons, YHWH hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.