salvation and the kingdom of God

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S

Sanashankar

Guest
#1
I just learned that "salvation" and entering "the kingdom of God" are two different things. Dr Ernest.L.Martin explains:

"There are many verses that explains that all men will be saved in Christ, but there are equally many verses that say pee will perish,be destroyed (Gk: appollmi also means lose ) and not enter the kingdom of God.
Thieves, liars, idolaters, fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God - eph 5:3-5

But let not mix apples with oranges. receiving salvation in christ and inheriting the kingdom are two different things and most people fail to distinguish them. the "kingdom" is destined to be introduced to the world at the 2nd coming of christ and will last 1000 years.

Rev 20:4 says those who do not worship the beast live and reign with Christ a 1000 years.these are the righteous dead who takes part in FIRST RESURRECTION. they are saved and inherit the kingdom of God.
the rest of the humanity will loose this 1000 years and will not obtain their salvation "until" the 1000 years have past. (rev 20:5-6)

all the verse given by Christ and apostles abt people missing out happiness, or they will perish, not getting rewards etc. all deals with the kingdom phase of God's inheritance.
but this does not in any way means thqt they will miss out the ultimate SALVATION that CHRIST has provided for all the human race by his death on the cross.


Paul says " work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire " 1cor 3:15

Paul even said to deliver such ad one unto satan "for the destruction of the flesh " that the spirit MAY BE SAVED (1cor 5:5)

these verses simply means that he would not inherit the kingdom of God (1000 years) but in final hour (final resurrection) the man would still be given salvation which is totally secure in Christ through grace and not by our works. "
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
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#2
Well, I will say it seems you did learn something.... one more man's opinion. ;)
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,186
6,530
113
#3
....man, it is so very hard to try and refrain from unfruitful debates.......goodness..... sigh :(

here's an idea though......folks can Google "Scriptures referring to the Kingdom of God" and read them........that way I won't have to do it.

saves on blood pressure medicine :)
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#4
The kingdom of God can refer to the eternal abode called heaven and the kingdom of God also refers to the church. In Matt 16:18,19 Jesus used the terms 'church' and 'kingdom' interchangeably. In Acts 2, those that obey the gospel, v38 are added to the church/kingdom verse 47. Paul and those Colossian Christians were in the kingdom Col 1:13. John was in the kingdom, Rev 1:9. Therefore being in the kingdom, in the church, in the body of Christ is salvation for there is no salvation outside of it, Eph 5:23. Nor does the bible teach Universalism, that all mankind will be in this kingdom/church or that all men will be in Christ, in His body.
 
F

forsha

Guest
#5
I just learned that "salvation" and entering "the kingdom of God" are two different things. Dr Ernest.L.Martin explains:

"There are many verses that explains that all men will be saved in Christ, but there are equally many verses that say pee will perish,be destroyed (Gk: appollmi also means lose ) and not enter the kingdom of God.
Thieves, liars, idolaters, fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God - eph 5:3-5

But let not mix apples with oranges. receiving salvation in christ and inheriting the kingdom are two different things and most people fail to distinguish them. the "kingdom" is destined to be introduced to the world at the 2nd coming of christ and will last 1000 years.

Rev 20:4 says those who do not worship the beast live and reign with Christ a 1000 years.these are the righteous dead who takes part in FIRST RESURRECTION. they are saved and inherit the kingdom of God.
the rest of the humanity will loose this 1000 years and will not obtain their salvation "until" the 1000 years have past. (rev 20:5-6)

all the verse given by Christ and apostles abt people missing out happiness, or they will perish, not getting rewards etc. all deals with the kingdom phase of God's inheritance.
but this does not in any way means thqt they will miss out the ultimate SALVATION that CHRIST has provided for all the human race by his death on the cross.


Paul says " work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire " 1cor 3:15

Paul even said to deliver such ad one unto satan "for the destruction of the flesh " that the spirit MAY BE SAVED (1cor 5:5)

these verses simply means that he would not inherit the kingdom of God (1000 years) but in final hour (final resurrection) the man would still be given salvation which is totally secure in Christ through grace and not by our works. "
Eph 5:5, After Jesus set up his church it has been referred to by many different names, such as, The kingdom of Christ, the kingdom of God, the church of Christ, the kingdom of heaven, the church of the first born, the new Jerusalem, the church in the wilderness, the bride(of which he is the husband), and more. Christ has been reigning over his kingdom(the church) ever sense he set it up. There will be no reigning as king after Jesus comes again to gather up his elect and presents his church to God.(1 Cor 15:24). Rev 20 is telling what will happen after Christ gathers his elect when he returns. God's elect are not judged at the final judgment day, only the non-elect will be judged by their works out of the books(plural). The elect are judged as they live here in this world and will never experience the second death. The non-elect are not judged(chastened) by God as they live here on earth, because God chastens those that he loves, and he does not love the non-elect(Ps 73), verse 5, They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they plagued(chastened) like other men. The non-elect will taste the second death at the judgment day.
 
F

forsha

Guest
#6
The kingdom of God can refer to the eternal abode called heaven and the kingdom of God also refers to the church. In Matt 16:18,19 Jesus used the terms 'church' and 'kingdom' interchangeably. In Acts 2, those that obey the gospel, v38 are added to the church/kingdom verse 47. Paul and those Colossian Christians were in the kingdom Col 1:13. John was in the kingdom, Rev 1:9. Therefore being in the kingdom, in the church, in the body of Christ is salvation for there is no salvation outside of it, Eph 5:23. Nor does the bible teach Universalism, that all mankind will be in this kingdom/church or that all men will be in Christ, in His body.
Wow! I believed everything you said in this post.
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#7
I just learned that "salvation" and entering "the kingdom of God" are two different things. Dr Ernest.L.Martin explains:
Two pieces of advice:

1. 86 Dr. Martin. If he's the one who "taught" you that, he's clueless.
2. Go read the Scriptures for yourself.

Amen and God bless.
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#8
I just learned that "salvation" and entering "the kingdom of God" are two different things. Dr Ernest.L.Martin explains:

"There are many verses that explains that all men will be saved in Christ, but there are equally many verses that say pee will perish,be destroyed (Gk: appollmi also means lose ) and not enter the kingdom of God.
Thieves, liars, idolaters, fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God - eph 5:3-5

But let not mix apples with oranges. receiving salvation in christ and inheriting the kingdom are two different things and most people fail to distinguish them. the "kingdom" is destined to be introduced to the world at the 2nd coming of christ and will last 1000 years.

Rev 20:4 says those who do not worship the beast live and reign with Christ a 1000 years.these are the righteous dead who takes part in FIRST RESURRECTION. they are saved and inherit the kingdom of God.
the rest of the humanity will loose this 1000 years and will not obtain their salvation "until" the 1000 years have past. (rev 20:5-6)
Luke 17:20-21[SUP] [/SUP]And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. :)
 
S

Sanashankar

Guest
#9
Well, I will say it seems you did learn something.... one more man's opinion. ;)
i don't know willie, but it makes sense to me. since we don't find a verse in the bible that says " you will not be SAVED" but there are verse which says "thou shalt not enter the kingdom of God".

Apostle Paul explains "for as in adam all die, even so in Christ ALL be made alive. but every man in his own ORDER: 1. Christ the firstfruits, afterward 2. they that are christ's at his coming (the first resurrection ) then 3. cometh the end (rest), when he SHALL HAVE DELIVERED UP THE KINGDOM TO GOD, even the Father. " 1 cor15:22-23

so this verse tell before the second resurrection mentioned in revelation Jesus Christ deliver the kingdom to God. (the 1000 years).

what is ur understanding about this topic?

sana
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
216
63
#10
...."thou shalt not enter the kingdom of God".
Shhhhh...it's a secret.:eek:

Each man has to find out how to "enter into the Kingdom" for themselves. (on what it exactly means, and how it is done.)

No piggyback rides into the Kingdom.
Hint: the Bible does explain what the Kingdom of God is, brother.:)
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#11
I just learned that "salvation" and entering "the kingdom of God" are two different things. Dr Ernest.L.Martin explains:

"There are many verses that explains that all men will be saved in Christ, but there are equally many verses that say pee will perish,be destroyed (Gk: appollmi also means lose ) and not enter the kingdom of God.
Thieves, liars, idolaters, fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God - eph 5:3-5

But let not mix apples with oranges. receiving salvation in christ and inheriting the kingdom are two different things and most people fail to distinguish them. the "kingdom" is destined to be introduced to the world at the 2nd coming of christ and will last 1000 years.

Rev 20:4 says those who do not worship the beast live and reign with Christ a 1000 years.these are the righteous dead who takes part in FIRST RESURRECTION. they are saved and inherit the kingdom of God.
the rest of the humanity will loose this 1000 years and will not obtain their salvation "until" the 1000 years have past. (rev 20:5-6)

all the verse given by Christ and apostles abt people missing out happiness, or they will perish, not getting rewards etc. all deals with the kingdom phase of God's inheritance.
but this does not in any way means thqt they will miss out the ultimate SALVATION that CHRIST has provided for all the human race by his death on the cross.


Paul says " work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire " 1cor 3:15

Paul even said to deliver such ad one unto satan "for the destruction of the flesh " that the spirit MAY BE SAVED (1cor 5:5)

these verses simply means that he would not inherit the kingdom of God (1000 years) but in final hour (final resurrection) the man would still be given salvation which is totally secure in Christ through grace and not by our works. "
John (Yahchanan) 15:4-6, "Abide in Me, and I in you. Just as the branch cannot produce fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."

As long as we focus on Him, know His Instruction, confess our sin to our High Priest Yahshua/Jesus YHWH's mercy will support us, for He is the Rock of our Salvation! I love you in Messiah sister!


1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

1 Yahchanan 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

Mattithyah 14:10-14, "Beware that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I say to you: In heaven their malakim always see the face of My Father Who is in heaven. The Son of Man has come to save that which was lost; So what do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, but one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine to go search the mountains for the one that has gone astray? And if it should be that he finds it, truly I say to you that he rejoices more over that one, than over the ninety-nine which never strayed. In the same way, it is not the will of your Father Who is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish."

We are grafted in to HIS FAMILY!

Psalm 40:16, "May all those who seek You rejoice and be glad in You! May those who love Your Salvation always say: May YHWH be magnified!"
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,021
1,020
113
New Zealand
#12
There is a need to distinguish between kingdom in heaven and kingdom on earth. Also to separate church from kingdom. Salvation is a free gift not by works saved by grace they faith in christ. A saved person becomes a member of the kingdom straight away. They don't become a member to a body of believers, a local church till later.I'll put on some scripture soon
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#13
Mattithyah 24:29-31, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other."

1 Corinthians 15:50-54, "Now I say this brothers: that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.Behold, I show you a secret truth: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible will have put on incorruption, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will be brought to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory."

Revelation 19:13-15:, "And He was wrapped in a tallit dipped in blood, and the Name of Him is called: Yahshua--The Salvation of Yahweh. And the armies in heaven clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him upon white horses, And out of His mouth goes a sharp, two-edged sword, that with it He should strike the nations; and He will rule over them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty Yahweh."


Hebrews 4:12, "For the word of Yah [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

Daniyl 7:13-14, "I saw in the night visions, and behold, One like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they were brought together before Him. And there was given Him ruling authority, and glory, and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should obey Him; His government is an everlasting government, which will not pass away; and His kingdom is one which will not be destroyed."

1,000 yr reign

Zecharyah 14:16-21, "Then it will come to pass that everyone who survives of all the nations which came against Yerusalem, will also go up from year to year to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, by keeping the Feasts at The Bayith Yahweh. And it will be that if any families of the earth will not come up to Yerusalem to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, then upon them will be no rain. family of Egypt will not come up and present themselves, they also will have no water; they will receive the same plague with which Yahweh of hosts strikes the heathen who will not come up to keep the Feasts at The Bayith Yahweh. This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all nations that do not go up to keep the Feasts at The Bayith Yahweh. In that day there will even be engraved on the bells of the horses: Qodesh La-Yahweh; Holy to Yahweh; and the pots in Yahweh's House will be like the bowls before the altar. Yes, every pot in Yerusalem and Yahdah will be holy to Yahweh of hosts, so that all who sacrifice may come and take of them, and boil the meat of the sacrifices in them. And in that day there will no longer be a Canaanite in The Bayith Yahweh of hosts."

Isayah 66:20-24, "And they will bring all your brothers for an offering to Yahweh--out of all nations, on horses, in chariots, and in litters, on mules, and on camels, to My holy mountain Yerusalem, says Yahweh: just as the children ofIsrayl bring an offering in a clean vessel into The Bayith Yahweh And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, says Yahweh. For as the new heavens and the new earth which I will make will remain before Me, says Yahweh: so will your seed and your name remain. And it will come to pass that from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh will come to worship before Me, says Yahweh. And they will go forth and look upon the carcasses of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched; and they will be an abhorrence to all flesh."

Isayah 65
"I am sought by those who did not ask for Me; I am found by those who did not seek Me. I said: Here I am, here I am, to a nation that was not called with My Name. I have spread out My hands all the day to a rebellious people, who walk in a way which is not right, after their own thoughts; devices; A people who provoke Me to anger continually to My face; who sacrifice in gardens, and burn incense on altars of brick; Who assemble and spend the night keeping memorials for the dead, who eat swine's flesh, and the broth of abominable things; unclean foods, is in their vessels, Who say; Stand by yourself! Do not come near me, for I am holier than you! These are a smoke in My nostrils, a fire that burns all the day. Behold, it is written before Me; I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom--Your iniquities and the iniquities of your fathers together, says Yahweh: who have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed Me upon the hills. Therefore I will measure their former work into their bosom. This is what Yahweh says: As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one says; Do not destroy it, for a blessing is in it; so will I do for My servants' sake, that I may not destroy them all. And I will bring forth a seed out of Yaaqob, and out of Yahdah an inheritor of My mountains; and My elect will inherit it, and My servants will live there. Sharon will be a fold of flocks, and the Valley of Achor a place for herds to lie down, for My people who have sought Me. But you are those who forsake Yahweh, who forget My holy mountain, who prepare a table for that troop and who furnish a drink offering for that number. Therefore, I will number you for the sword, and you will all bow down to the slaughter, because when I called, you did not answer; when I spoke, you did not listen; but did evil in front ofMy eyes, and you chose that in which I did not delight. Therefore, this is what Yahweh our Father says: Behold, My servants will eat, but you will be hungry. Behold, My servants will drink, but you will be thirsty. Behold, My servants will rejoice, but you will be ashamed. Behold, My servants will sing for joy of heart, but you will cry for sorrow of heart, and wail for vexation; grief, of spirit; And the names of your gods will remain as a trap; test, to My chosen; for Yahweh our Father will slay you, but he will give His servants a Name, that will remain forever; That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the power of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the power of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.They have been adversaries from the beginning; therefore, they are hidden from My eyes. For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former will not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; for behold, I create Yerusalem as a rejoicing, and her people a joy. I will rejoice in Yerusalem, and rejoice in My people; the voice of weeping will no longer be heard in her, nor the voice of crying. No longer will there be in it an infant of only a few days, nor an old man who does not fill out his life; for the child will die a hundred years old, but the sinner being one hundred years old will be accursed; burned. They will build houses, and inhabit them; they will plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. They will not build, and another inhabit; they will not plant, and another eat; for as the days of a tree, so will be the days of My people, and My elect will long enjoy the work of their hands. They will not labor in vain, nor bring forth children for trouble; destruction, for they are the seed of the blessed of Yahweh, and their offspring with them. It will come to pass that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. The wolf and the lamb will feed together, the lion will eat straw like the ox, and dust will be the serpent's food. They will not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain: says Yahweh."

Peaceful practice time (1,000 yr reign) is over, satan is loosed, and all that dont enter the kingdom are swiftly destroyed and satan is tossed into....

Malakyah 4:1-4,"For, behold, the day comes that will burn like an oven; and all the proud, yes, and all who do wickedly, will be stubble--the day that comes will burn them up, says Yahweh of hosts; and it will leave them neither root nor branch. But for you who reverence My Name, the light of righteousness will arise with healing in its wings; and you will go out, leaping like calves released from the stall. And you will tread down the wicked; for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I will do this, says Yahweh of hosts. Remember the Law of Mosheh My servant, which I commanded through him in Horeb for all Israyl, with the statutes and judgments."

Hebrews 9:11-12, "But the Messiah came near as a High Priest over the righteous things to come, with the great and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation;Nor through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once, for all, having obtained eternal redemption."

and the eternal kingdom of Yahweh is all that is left!

1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which Yahweh has prepared for those who love Him."
Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

Mattithyah 22:37, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."

Revelation 21:3-4, "And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himselfwill be with them, and be their Father. And Yahweh will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there will be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, nor will there be any more pain, for the former things have passed away."

Isayah 54:8-17, "With a little wrath, I hid My face from you for a moment; but with everlasting kindness I will have mercy on you: says Yahweh your Redeemer. For this is like the waters of Noah to Me; for as I have vowed that the waters of Noah would no longer cover the earth, so have I vowed that I would not be angry with you, nor rebuke you. For the mountains will depart and the hills be removed; but My kindness will not depart from you, nor will My covenant of peace be removed, says Yahweh, Who has mercy on you. O you afflicted, tossed with tempest and not comforted. Behold, I will lay your stones with turquoise, and lay your foundations with sapphires. I will make your windows of rubies, and your gates of crystal, and all your walls of precious stones. All your children will be taught by Yahweh; and great will be the peace of your children. In righteousness you will be established. You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear from terror; for it will not come near you. Behold, they will surely assemble, but it is not from Me. Whoever assembles against you will fall for your sake. Behold, I have created the blacksmith who fans the coals into flame, and forges an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster; devastator, to destroy. No weapon that is formed against you will succeed; and every tongue that will rise against you in judgment, you will condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of Yahweh, and their righteousness is from Me, says YHWH."

We have a perfect priest in the heavens. He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
 
S

Sanashankar

Guest
#14
The kingdom of God can refer to the eternal abode called heaven and the kingdom of God also refers to the church. In Matt 16:18,19 Jesus used the terms 'church' and 'kingdom' interchangeably. In Acts 2, those that obey the gospel, v38 are added to the church/kingdom verse 47. Paul and those Colossian Christians were in the kingdom Col 1:13. John was in the kingdom, Rev 1:9. Therefore being in the kingdom, in the church, in the body of Christ is salvation for there is no salvation outside of it, Eph 5:23. Nor does the bible teach Universalism, that all mankind will be in this kingdom/church or that all men will be in Christ, in His body.
those who obey the gospel are added to the church. the church of God.....that is the elect. it doesnt say they have already entered the kingdom of God. they will enter it after the end of this world.

Jesus said - " my kingdom is not of this world. if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight,.....but now is my kingdom not from hence ". jn 18:36

the church or the body of christ WILL enter the kingdom of God after their resurrection on the last day, only then because flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
are we in spirit??? no. we are still in flesh and blood. so we have to die, wait for the end of the world resurrect into kingdom of God. not all but the blessed one who partake the first resurrection.

inheriting kingdom of god is a; PROMISE fr which we have to wait.

jam 2:5 - " hearken my beloved brethren, hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs OF THE KINGDOM WHICH HE HATH PROMISED to them that love him "
we shall reign with him - 2tim 2:12


the words of john in revelation is showing his hope and faith that he belongs to the kingdom. theee are alot of things that christian are supposed to reckon and live. bible says

we were circumcised in christ (coll2:11)
we were buried with christ in baptism ( coll2:12)
we were crucified with christ (gal 2:20, col3:3)
we were resurrected from dead with christ ( col2:12-13; 3:1)

does that mean we are actualy dead and resurected now??? no but we are to reckon and live that we are children of god and we are in the kingdom of god.

its up to each individual to believe whether the bible teaches universalism or not.i believe in these verses

rom 11:26 - all israel will be saved....
1tim 2:4 - who will have all men to be saved
isa 46:10 - and i will do all my pleasure (will)
1cor 3:15 - man's work shall be burned but HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED, yet so as byfire.

i believe these verses and many more whichsays that all men will be saved in the end. God's judgment is just and he is love.


sana
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#15
those who obey the gospel are added to the church. the church of God.....that is the elect. it doesnt say they have already entered the kingdom of God. they will enter it after the end of this world.

Jesus said - " my kingdom is not of this world. if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight,.....but now is my kingdom not from hence ". jn 18:36

the church or the body of christ WILL enter the kingdom of God after their resurrection on the last day, only then because flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
are we in spirit??? no. we are still in flesh and blood. so we have to die, wait for the end of the world resurrect into kingdom of God. not all but the blessed one who partake the first resurrection.
The church is the kingdom, as Jesus used the term "church" and "kingdom" interchangeably in Mt 16:18,19. Those in Acts 2:47 that were added to the church were added to the kingdom.

Col 1:13; Rev 1:9 there were people in the kingdom as far back as the first century.

Jn 18 Jesus is saying His kingdom is a spiritual kingdom, not an earthly, economic type kingdom.

sanashankar said:
inheriting kingdom of god is a; PROMISE fr which we have to wait.

jam 2:5 - " hearken my beloved brethren, hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs OF THE KINGDOM WHICH HE HATH PROMISED to them that love him "
we shall reign with him - 2tim 2:12
"Then that love Him" that is those that obey Christ (Jn 14:15) will inherit the kingdom, be added to it acts 2 :47.


sanashankar said:
the words of john in revelation is showing his hope and faith that he belongs to the kingdom. theee are alot of things that christian are supposed to reckon and live. bible says

we were circumcised in christ (coll2:11)
we were buried with christ in baptism ( coll2:12)
we were crucified with christ (gal 2:20, col3:3)
we were resurrected from dead with christ ( col2:12-13; 3:1)

does that mean we are actualy dead and resurected now??? no but we are to reckon and live that we are children of god and we are in the kingdom of god.
John plainly said he was "in the kingdom" as was Paul and those Colossian Christians.

sanashankar said:
its up to each individual to believe whether the bible teaches universalism or not.i believe in these verses

rom 11:26 - all israel will be saved....
1tim 2:4 - who will have all men to be saved
isa 46:10 - and i will do all my pleasure (will)
1cor 3:15 - man's work shall be burned but HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED, yet so as byfire.

i believe these verses and many more whichsays that all men will be saved in the end. God's judgment is just and he is love.


sana
Rom 11 is about spiritual Israel, the church.....all in the church will be saved

1tim 2 is God's desire/wish all men use their freewill to repent and be saved yet most will not entering the broad, wide gate to destruction. Mt 7:13

isa 46 nowhere does the bible teach God will violate men's freewill forcing all men to be saved

1cor 3 says nothing about all men being saved. "Work" in this context is talking about converts. If a convert a man made is judged to be saved on judgment day, that man will receive a reward for that saved convert. But if a man's convert is judged to be lost, "burned" then that man will not be lost himself if he remains faithful but will suffer a sense of loss over his lost convert.
 
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Sanashankar

Guest
#16
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The church is the kingdom, as Jesus used the term "church" and "kingdom" interchangeably in Mt 16:18,19. Those in Acts 2:47 that were added to the church were added to the kingdom.

Col 1:13; Rev 1:9 there were people in the kingdom as far back as the first century.

Jn 18 Jesus is saying His kingdom is a spiritual kingdom, not an earthly, economic type kingdom.



"Then that love Him" that is those that obey Christ (Jn 14:15) will inherit the kingdom, be added to it acts 2 :47.




John plainly said he was "in the kingdom" as was Paul and those Colossian Christians.



Rom 11 is about spiritual Israel, the church.....all in the church will be saved

1tim 2 is God's desire/wish all men use their freewill to repent and be saved yet most will not entering the broad, wide gate to destruction. Mt 7:13

isa 46 nowhere does the bible teach God will violate men's freewill forcing all men to be saved

1cor 3 says nothing about all men being saved. "Work" in this context is talking about converts. If a convert a man made is judged to be saved on judgment day, that man will receive a reward for that saved convert. But if a man's convert is judged to be lost, "burned" then that man will not be lost himself if he remains fatithful but will suffer a sense of loss over his lost convert.
the elect, the chosen children of God are the church, the body of christ. the few chosen ones. they are the ones who enter the kingdom of God in the end. everyone in the body of christ are the ones who inherited the promise.

we are to live by hope that we belong to the chosen category and wr will enter the kingdom of god (1000 years where the chosen ones wil be judging the world with Jesus Christ). the church today dont judge the world now??? does it????? o

2pet 1:10-11 "wherefore the rether brethren, give deligence to make ur calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shal never fall. FOR SO AN ENTRANCE SHALL BE MINISTERED UNTO YOU ABUNDANTLY INTO THE EVERLASTING KINGDOM OF OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST.

this verse talks abt the future not somethingthat happened in the past or something happening in the present.
all the verses u mentioned shows the hope of the apostles that they are the ones who will enter the kingdom of God.

even if church is called the kingdom, does the bible say they are the only ones who will be saved?????????? what about king david?? or abraham? or all the other people who were not a part of this church?? are they going to burn in hell because they are not saved? they did not receive the promise

heb 11:39-40 " and these allhaving obtained a good report thru faith, RECEIVED NOT THE PROMISE: God having provided some better things for US (chosen ones) that they (david abraham, moses, etc) WITHOUT US SHOULD NOT BE MADE PERFECT.


You say roman 11 is abt the church, spiritual israel ....no it is not because the same chapter says " they are the enemies ", "they have killed the prophets and digged down the altar, they were broken off because of their unbelief etc "

the spiritual israel did all these???????

blindness in part is happened to israel, until the gentiles be come in (rom 11:25) and once that happens they will come to the knowledge of God and they shall be saved. (rom 11:26)

and this happens when the deliverer comes and reign in the end.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#17
I just learned that
"salvation" and entering "the kingdom of God" are two different things. Dr Ernest.L.Martin explains:
According to NT teaching, Dr. Martin is mistaken.

"There are many verses that explains that all men will be saved in Christ, but there are equally many verses that say pee will perish,be destroyed (Gk: appollmi also means lose ) and not enter the kingdom of God.
Thieves, liars, idolaters, fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God - eph 5:3-5

But let not mix apples with oranges. receiving salvation in christ and inheriting the kingdom are two different things and most people fail to distinguish them.
the "kingdom" is destined to be introduced to the world at the 2nd coming of christ and will last 1000 years.
Actually, Jesus states that the kingdom of God was inside/among them in himself (Lk 17:21),
as well as invisible (Lk 17:20).

Jesus also said his kingdom is not an earthly kingdom of this world (Jn 18:36),
that it comes from another place; i.e., in him, and from where he came, heaven (Jn 3:13, 6:38, 42, 62).

Rev 20:4 says those who do not worship the beast live and reign with Christ a 1000 years.these are the righteous dead who takes part in FIRST RESURRECTION. they are saved and inherit the kingdom of God.
the rest of the humanity will loose this 1000 years and will not obtain their salvation "until" the 1000 years have past. (rev 20:5-6)
Interpretation of unfulfilled prophetic riddles is uncertain, and not all interpret them the same way.
Others interpret the riddle of Rev 20:4-6 to mean things entirely different.

all the verse given by Christ and apostles abt people missing out happiness, or they will perish, not getting rewards etc.
all deals with the kingdom phase of God's inheritance.
Actually, they do not.

but this does not in any way means thqt they will miss out the ultimate SALVATION that CHRIST has provided for all the human race by his death on the cross.

Paul says " work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire " 1cor 3:15

Paul even said to deliver such ad one unto satan "for the destruction of the flesh " that the spirit MAY BE SAVED (1cor 5:5)

these verses simply means that
he would not inherit the kingdom of God (1000 years) but in final hour (final resurrection) the man
would still be given salvation
which is totally secure in Christ through grace and not by our works. "
Not according to certain NT teaching.
 
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Mar 12, 2014
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#18
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the elect, the chosen children of God are the church, the body of christ. the few chosen ones. they are the ones who enter the kingdom of God in the end. everyone in the body of christ are the ones who inherited the promise.

we are to live by hope that we belong to the chosen category and wr will enter the kingdom of god (1000 years where the chosen ones wil be judging the world with Jesus Christ). the church today dont judge the world now??? does it????? o

2pet 1:10-11 "wherefore the rether brethren, give deligence to make ur calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shal never fall. FOR SO AN ENTRANCE SHALL BE MINISTERED UNTO YOU ABUNDANTLY INTO THE EVERLASTING KINGDOM OF OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST.

this verse talks abt the future not somethingthat happened in the past or something happening in the present.
all the verses u mentioned shows the hope of the apostles that they are the ones who will enter the kingdom of God.

even if church is called the kingdom, does the bible say they are the only ones who will be saved?????????? what about king david?? or abraham? or all the other people who were not a part of this church?? are they going to burn in hell because they are not saved? they did not receive the promise

heb 11:39-40 " and these allhaving obtained a good report thru faith, RECEIVED NOT THE PROMISE: God having provided some better things for US (chosen ones) that they (david abraham, moses, etc) WITHOUT US SHOULD NOT BE MADE PERFECT.


You say roman 11 is abt the church, spiritual israel ....no it is not because the same chapter says " they are the enemies ", "they have killed the prophets and digged down the altar, they were broken off because of their unbelief etc "

the spiritual israel did all these???????

blindness in part is happened to israel, until the gentiles be come in (rom 11:25) and once that happens they will come to the knowledge of God and they shall be saved. (rom 11:26)

and this happens when the deliverer comes and reign in the end.
ANYONE that chooses to obey the gospel (Acts 2:38) is added to the church/kingdom. Only those that obey by being baptized into Christ, Gal 3:27 are in Christ and part of the kingdom. Most will not choose to obey the gospel and never be a part of the kingdom/church and be lost, enter the broad wide gate to destruction.

Abraham, David, etc of the OT will be judged according to the law they lived under and their obedience to God. WHen Christ died upon the cross His blood flowed backwards to wash away the sins of those OT characters that had a faithful obedience.

In Rom 11 is about spiritual Israel which is the church and not about fleshly Israel. Later in the chapter we are told God cast off fleshly Israel and grafted in the Gentiles. So anyone, Jew or Gentile, that becomes a Christian is then placed in the kingdom/church. Paul a Jew and the Colossian Gentiles were Christians who had been translated into the kingdom/church.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
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#19
church= Ecclessia

LOCAL assembly of saved baptised believers. A church at Ephesus.. a church at Antioch... a church at Corinth etc...

Very large congregations of course.. but local and visible.

God's Kingdom.. all of God's dominion.. God's Kingdom on earth, God's creation in the galaxy, God's Kingdom in heaven.

NOT the 'church'. The church is not universal... neither universal, visible nor universal invisible.

Body of Christ = a local body of saved baptised believers covenanted together to carry out the great commission and commandment.

I know most christians will say the body of Christ is every believer.. but that is part of the Family of God.

Family of God and Kingdom of God = universal. Family of God inside the Kingdom.

Church- either speaks of 'the church' as the 'local unit of a church' like saying 'the dog', 'the bar', or 'the post office'

or of one particular church in particular.. eg. .. at Ephesus.. at Antioch.. at Corinth.

Now I know what you will say--- a church is not a building..

and you are RIGHT

but it is a local congregation of saved baptised believers. Local and visible. Don't need a roof over their head. Jesus and His disciples had no roof over their head.. and I doubt the church at Jerusalem started out with a roof over their head.