THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH

[p_rehbein]

EXCERPT FROM ARTICLE:

The term Christian Church, in the first understanding, which is generally used by Protestants, does not refer to a particular denomination. However, the majority of Christians belong to groups that consider themselves to be the one true church, to which other Christians do not belong. The three largest such groups are the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the Oriental Orthodox communion. Thus, some Christians identify the Christian Church with a visible structure (the view of the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox churches) while others (generally Protestants) understand it as an invisible reality not identified with any earthly structure and others equate it with particular groups that share certain essential elements of doctrine and practice though divided on other points of doctrine and government (such as the branch theory as taught by some Anglicans).


The Greek term ἐκκλησία, which is transliterated as "ecclesia", generally meant an "assembly",[SUP][1][/SUP] but in most English translations of the New Testament is usually translated as "church". This term appears in two verses of the Gospel of Matthew, twenty-four verses of the Acts of the Apostles, fifty-eight verses of the Pauline Epistles (including the earliest instances of its use in relation to a Christian body), two verses of the Letter to the Hebrews, one verse of the Epistle of James, three verses of the Third Epistle of John, and nineteen verses of the Book of Revelation. In total, ἐκκλησία appears in the New Testament text 114 times, although not every instance is a technical reference to the church.[SUP][2][/SUP]

[SUP]FOUND HERE:

[/SUP]
Christian Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

2 Samuel 22:47
The Lord liveth; and blessed be my rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.

 

[mikeuk]

EXCERPT FROM ARTICLE:

The term Christian Church, in the first understanding, which is generally used by Protestants, does not refer to a particular denomination. However, the majority of Christians belong to groups that consider themselves to be the one true church, to which other Christians do not belong. The three largest such groups are the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the Oriental Orthodox communion. Thus, some Christians identify the Christian Church with a visible structure (the view of the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox churches) while others (generally Protestants) understand it as an invisible reality not identified with any earthly structure and others equate it with particular groups that share certain essential elements of doctrine and practice though divided on other points of doctrine and government (such as the branch theory as taught by some Anglicans).


The Greek term ἐκκλησία, which is transliterated as "ecclesia", generally meant an "assembly",[SUP][1][/SUP] but in most English translations of the New Testament is usually translated as "church". This term appears in two verses of the Gospel of Matthew, twenty-four verses of the Acts of the Apostles, fifty-eight verses of the Pauline Epistles (including the earliest instances of its use in relation to a Christian body), two verses of the Letter to the Hebrews, one verse of the Epistle of James, three verses of the Third Epistle of John, and nineteen verses of the Book of Revelation. In total, ἐκκλησία appears in the New Testament text 114 times, although not every instance is a technical reference to the church.[SUP][2][/SUP]

[SUP]FOUND HERE:

[/SUP]
Christian Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is a lot of misunderstanding surrounding this.
The point is "church" and "true church" and "Church" are different.


First church.
If you look at the RCC catechism it clearly states the church (small c) is
"people of god" "body of christ" "temple of the holy spirit" - ie the invisible union between god's people. It tends to be outsiders who think RCC thinks it is a hierarchy or set of buildings. So RCC agree with the interpretation of "people of god", although many seem to think they do not!

Case is important.
Church - capital C identifies a specific congregation, is not the same as church small c.
Just as catholic small c in use in the nicene creed means "universal" Catholic, large C tends to refer to RCC

Then "true church"
"true church" means something rather different. Church is simply people of god, but the word true as in "true church" qualifies that, because true reflects the belief set of those people, and the true church is the union of those with true belief.

The early church as shown in even the early fathers was sacramental, liturgical, believed in real presence, recognised the merit and necessity of works etc etc (wrongly characterised as salvation by works, by those who do not research it properly!) .
Sp to be "true" requires not only consistency with the early church, but also essentially unchanged in doctrine, since revelation has not changed. True church is those people of God who have maintained the core beliefs of early times till present day. Only one candidate has survived in doctrine long enough relatively unchanged in doctrineto even make the claim that its people are the "true church", which is RCC, although RCC recognises the "church" in general (as opposed to "true church") to be the union of baptized in the name of father, son and spirit. Which is many denominations.

Clearly JW are not "true church" since though they claim to be christians, they are not even monotheist.
Nor are those who do not believe in the "real presence" a view held from the earliest times.

The point is "church" and "true church" and "Church" are different.

 

[p_rehbein]

Did you read the entire article? Or just the excerpt?

 

[mikeuk]

Did you read the entire article? Or just the excerpt?

I have read it in the past, and I noted the confusion on case which I think is important!
And the reason I care, is often we catholics get accused of thinking church means a building or hierarchy, when we actually mean the people of god!

The problem is the phrase "true church" and so therefore the meaning of "true"

 

[Willie-T]

Case is important? I'm afraid "case" came only through the translator's interpretations.

Hebrew was written in all lower case letters, and "common" Greek (most of the NT) was written in all upper case letters, if I am not mistaken.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

... "true church" ...

Biblically speaking, this has no meaning. Reference to "church" in the New Testament always assumes it is the "true church," whether the total body of believers, or the local church at which some of that body gather to enjoy fellowship, engage in worship, praise God, and study His word.

 

[p_rehbein]

I have read it in the past, and I noted the confusion on case which I think is important!
And the reason I care, is often we catholics get accused of thinking church means a building or hierarchy, when we actually mean the people of god!

The problem is the phrase "true church" and so therefore the meaning of "true"

ok, glad you read it............thanks.......

 

[royalscot]

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

2 Samuel 22:47
The Lord liveth; and blessed be my rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.

26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, "Stand up; I too am a man."27 And as he talked with him, he went in and found many persons gathered.28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.Acts 10

a christian body or church that believes all are welcome in the kingdom of god.

 

[p_rehbein]

Case is important? I'm afraid "case" came only through the translator's interpretations.

Hebrew was written in all lower case letters, and "common" Greek (most of the NT) was written in all upper case letters, if I am not mistaken.

Understood But, I must admit, when I am posting here, I will type "church" for my local congregation so as to not offend those who believe we are heretics, and I will type "Church" for the Entire Body of Christ.

 

[p_rehbein]

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

2 Samuel 22:47
The Lord liveth; and blessed be my rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.

Jesus certainly is the Cornerstone........First fruit........

 

[Willie-T]

Understood But, I must admit, when I am posting here, I will type "church" for my local congregation so as to not offend those who believe we are heretics, and I will type "Church" for the Entire Body of Christ.

I think most of us do that sort of thing. I was just addressing the fact that way too many of us get all hung up and bent outta shape over how any number of certain letters or words found in whatever translation is being looked at (especially the "authorized by God" KJV) are shown on the pages.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Jesus certainly is the Cornerstone........First fruit........

Matthew 21:42
Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Ephesians 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

 

[p_rehbein]

1 Peter 2:4 .) To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 .) Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 .) Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 .) Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 .) And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 .) But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

 

[mikeuk]

Case is important? I'm afraid "case" came only through the translator's interpretations.

Hebrew was written in all lower case letters, and "common" Greek (most of the NT) was written in all upper case letters, if I am not mistaken.

I am not talking about the original scripture, which cannot contain a denomination, there were none! Nor christian church buildings there were none!.

I am also unaware , though might be wrong of any scriptural reference to "true church" an expression used in that article, and certainly used in debate.

I am remarking that the way they are used in contemporary english case is important and "Church", "church" and "true church" often relate to different things. Whilst we all use the word "true" in the context of correct doctrine, we may argue on who has it! That article complicates it further using "Christian Church" as a proper name, elsewhere lower case as a description, so it causes as many problems as it solves.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Joshua 8:31
As Moses the servant of the Lord commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses, an altar of whole stones, over which no man hath lift up any iron: and they offered thereon burnt offerings unto the Lord, and sacrificed peace offerings.

1 Kings 6:7
And the house, when it was in building, was built of stone made ready before it was brought thither: so that there was neither hammer nor axe nor any tool of iron heard in the house, while it was in building.

Daniel 2:34
Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

 

[Willie-T]

I am not talking about the original scripture, which cannot contain a denomination, there were none! Nor christian church buildings there were none!.

I am also unaware , though might be wrong of any scriptural reference to "true church" an expression used in that article, and certainly used in debate.

I am remarking that the way they are used in contemporary english case is important and "Church", "church" and "true church" often relate to different things. Whilst we all use the word "true" in the context of correct doctrine, we may argue on who has it! That article complicates it further using "Christian Church" as a proper name, elsewhere lower case as a description, so it causes as many problems as it solves.

I see what you mean, now. And agree.

 

[Yet]

The use of the word church generates a problem. It's the fruit that springs forth from that use. So therefore we need to jettison that word and simply use the correct rendering, people of God or gathering or assembly. It's the folks...folks!

The purpose of the use of the word church instead of gathering was to aide the control of the masses under King James. The connotation germinates in the minds of the people that a brick building is the church and it is where we must be and support in order to please God. The way the interior of the building is designed is to make it conducive for the upper clerical control over the unwashed laity. The Nicolaitan doctrine and the concept of a building being the 'church' soundly destroyed the every member participation meeting of the first century. See: The Great Ecclesiastical Conspiracy to gain further understanding how satan knocked one outta the park. Oh happy day when satan took our body life away!

 

[p_rehbein]

Ephesians 1:17) That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18.) The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 .) And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 .) Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 .) Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 .) And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 .) Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

 

[p_rehbein]

Ephesians 2:19-22 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.