Textual conditions vs The sensible horizon

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oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#1
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]What is the difference between a) imposing textual conditions onto a situation and b) the belief that a situation and the sensible horizon of the situation must be symmetrical?[/FONT]
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#2
Like those in the world, most in the Church have been taught from birth that there is an acceptable, logical, and rational way in which we are expected to view situations in life. We evaluate human events based on a sensible horizon. This view of our world is drawn from life experiences and is passed down to each succeeding generation by parents and teachers. We treat knowledge as an emerging social property rather than a shared conditionality with God. Society tells us what must be regarded as useful knowledge. This philosophy has certainly had a measure of influence within the Church. Desiring to retain credibility as Christian members of society we attempt to bring our social and cultural experiences to bear upon scripture to make sense of the world around us. We tend to interpret the text dependent upon our place within society. With such an approach to the text, a farmer, a businessman, a lawyer, a doctor, and a teacher would all have formulated varying interpretations of the text based on their individual experiences. Members of society attempt to elaborate the text by mapping what society regards as acceptable knowledge onto the text. We are told that we must always engage the text in such a way that it will not come into conflict with our views of reality. We are taught that in the face of real life situations we must react to these events in a sensible and rational way because we live in a “real world” where physics and physiology must be confronted. This approach to the text embraces man as the source of causation. We attempt to manipulate a given situation in such a way as to develop all the necessary antecedents to bring about redemption from the situation. Indeed, man has always attempted to find his own answers to human problems.

As we examine scripture, we see that God repeatedly and deliberately places man in the most unfavorable circumstances to show us that redemption can never come out of circumstances, no matter how man may attempt to manipulate the relative conditions of a given situation. The overwhelming lesson of scripture is that redemption always and only comes from the Lord. The promises of God are the source of redemptive causation that He imposes upon the situation. In this way, He causes things in the natural order to come into a state of unity with His will. Redemption always stands outside of and beyond the control of man no matter how he attempts to forge a situation to his favor. We can ill afford to approach our experiences as though any kind of symmetry can exist between our situation and the sensible horizon. We must learn to ignore what we understand about physics and physiology and allow the promises of God to determine the outcome of our experiences. These elements, although real, are not determinate. In scripture, these things are never determinate factors when we consider the promises of God. The promises of God will always influence the material stream and bring it into conformity with His will no matter how overwhelming we may think the physical factors may be. It is not an easy assignment to see our place in the world through the eyes of the Almighty, yet this is what He requires of us. God calls this faith.
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
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#3
Like those in the world, most in the Church have been taught from birth that there is an acceptable, logical, and rational way in which we are expected to view situations in life. We evaluate human events based on a sensible horizon. This view of our world is drawn from life experiences and is passed down to each succeeding generation by parents and teachers. We treat knowledge as an emerging social property rather than a shared conditionality with God. Society tells us what must be regarded as useful knowledge. This philosophy has certainly had a measure of influence within the Church. Desiring to retain credibility as Christian members of society we attempt to bring our social and cultural experiences to bear upon scripture to make sense of the world around us. We tend to interpret the text dependent upon our place within society. With such an approach to the text, a farmer, a businessman, a lawyer, a doctor, and a teacher would all have formulated varying interpretations of the text based on their individual experiences. Members of society attempt to elaborate the text by mapping what society regards as acceptable knowledge onto the text. We are told that we must always engage the text in such a way that it will not come into conflict with our views of reality. We are taught that in the face of real life situations we must react to these events in a sensible and rational way because we live in a “real world” where physics and physiology must be confronted. This approach to the text embraces man as the source of causation. We attempt to manipulate a given situation in such a way as to develop all the necessary antecedents to bring about redemption from the situation. Indeed, man has always attempted to find his own answers to human problems.

As we examine scripture, we see that God repeatedly and deliberately places man in the most unfavorable circumstances to show us that redemption can never come out of circumstances, no matter how man may attempt to manipulate the relative conditions of a given situation. The overwhelming lesson of scripture is that redemption always and only comes from the Lord. The promises of God are the source of redemptive causation that He imposes upon the situation. In this way, He causes things in the natural order to come into a state of unity with His will. Redemption always stands outside of and beyond the control of man no matter how he attempts to forge a situation to his favor. We can ill afford to approach our experiences as though any kind of symmetry can exist between our situation and the sensible horizon. We must learn to ignore what we understand about physics and physiology and allow the promises of God to determine the outcome of our experiences. These elements, although real, are not determinate. In scripture, these things are never determinate factors when we consider the promises of God. The promises of God will always influence the material stream and bring it into conformity with His will no matter how overwhelming we may think the physical factors may be. It is not an easy assignment to see our place in the world through the eyes of the Almighty, yet this is what He requires of us. God calls this faith.
Yep. . . . . . .
 
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
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#5
problems occur in how, we find balance to what we were told, and what we read, and what the holy spirit open your eyes to what you read, so bringing context to
example act2 and acts10. would ask the reader, why the need to have an acts 15 in the bible.

the problem is seeing what promise is, against what law is. and who was given law , to being given a free pass. (romans 11)
both contain believe in.

yet the new covenant was already in place, before the bible went to print. that open your eyes to( romans 5 12-21)

yet balance is again in gods hands and not ours, yet the message is still the same death is conquered through jesus life ,death. resurecction , and jesus going back to heaven,and then the gift of the holy spirit, being given to mankind.

so is god still opening our eyes to new things or are we stuck on certain religion, dogmas and taboos that lead to fruitless trains of thought.
 
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oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
612
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#6
problems occur in how, we find balance to what we were told, and what we read, and what the holy spirit open your eyes to what you read, so bringing context to
example act2 and acts10. would ask the reader, why the need to have an acts 15 in the bible.

the problem is seeing what promise is, against what law is. and who was given law , to being given a free pass. (romans 11)
both contain believe in.

yet the new covenant was already in place, before the bible went to print. that open your eyes to( romans 5 12-21)

yet balance is again in gods hands and not ours, yet the message is still the same death is conquered through jesus life ,death. resurecction , and jesus going back to heaven,and then the gift of the holy spirit, being given to mankind.

so is god still opening our eyes to new things or are we stuck on certain religion, dogmas and taboos that lead to fruitless trains of thought.
The question was not really intended to examine continuity between biblical texts but to cause us to think about how we are to create a synthesis between human experience and the biblical text.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#7
Perhaps I need to ask this question in another way.

What are the contradictions between a unity that uses language to link God to the world, and language that links the observer to the observable world? How can a case be made for inspired non-natural objective grounds for language?
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#8
when our Creator calls us, we actually don't create anything,
we simply learn how to use what He so lovingly gives.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
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#9
when our Creator calls us, we actually don't create anything,
we simply learn how to use what He so lovingly gives.
What I am getting at is that there are essentially only two grounds upon which to formulate language, the Word of God which is objective and human experience which will always be subjective. These two different language groups are contradictory. What I am asking is how can we learn to represent human experiences on the bases of the Word of God?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#10
Perhaps I need to ask this question in another way.

What are the contradictions between a unity that uses language to link God to the world, and language that links the observer to the observable world? How can a case be made for inspired non-natural objective grounds for language?
I think your asking how can the carnal mind...subject to temporal truth and laws understand eternal things and spiritual laws?
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#11
I think you asking how can the carnal mind...subject to temporal truth and laws understand eternal things and spiritual laws?
No. That is not at all what I am asking. What I want to know is how do we learn to see human experience from the perspective of scripture rather than seeing scripture through the lens of human experience?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#12
No. That is not at all what I am asking. What I want to know is how do we learn to see human experience from the perspective of scripture rather than seeing scripture through the lens of human experience?
Well first I think it demands that we see the truth of scripture above what our natural mind and senses would tell us...Become a fool to be made wise...."let God be true and every man a liar"
What I find is that I must allow the Word to change me and not try to change the word to what my natural mind and natural limits would require? Are we on the same page....It seems like a good topic lol
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#13
the scriptures are LIVING -
and the longer that we walk in the Word,
we are also living the Word, our lives become
a parallel to what Christ is teaching us through
so many of the Biblical characters strengths and weaknesses -

Abraham, David, and John, though they are dead,
they live on,
as it is written,
God is the God of the living, and if Christ lives in us
we are a part of His magnificent FAMILY
recorded forever in His Spiritual language.

God's Spiritual Letters are the building blocks of
everything in the universe, because Spiritual Words
consist of Spiritual Letters.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
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#14
Well first I think it demands that we see the truth of scripture above what our natural mind and senses would tell us...Become a fool to be made wise...."let God be true and every man a liar"
What I find is that I must allow the Word to change me and not try to change the word to what my natural mind and natural limits would require? Are we on the same page....It seems like a good topic lol
Yes, this is closer to the point. What I see in people's response to various life experiences is that they will invariably interpret scripture based on how they have represented past experiences. This is not how scripture says we are to view our experiences.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#15
Yes, this is closer to the point. What I see in people's response to various life experiences is that they will invariably interpret scripture based on how they have represented past experiences. This is not how scripture says we are to view our experiences.
I agree and I often find that as I meditate on a certain truth of scripture, the truth of that scripture, will manifest and in that manifestation I truly understand the scriptures truth... For instance in 1 Cor 13...I yielded to the truth of love and the Spirit began to manifest those truths in my life in a new way, where I actually began to understand what they was really saying.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
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#16
I agree and I often find that as I meditate on a certain truth of scripture, the truth of that scripture, will manifest and in that manifestation I truly understand the scriptures truth... For instance in 1 Cor 13...I yielded to the truth of love and the Spirit began to manifest those truths in my life in a new way, where I actually began to understand what they was really saying.
Do you know the difference between triadic reasoning and dyadic reasoning?
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#18
I can look it up...but ill let you explain it if you want?
These represent the two different ways in which we view human experience and reality in general.

Dyadic reasoning is a reflexive nominal movement that has only two points of valence. It begins on the temporal side and comes to bear upon something else on the temporal side.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Simply put, dyadic reasoning is man attempting to rationalize reality[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]based on human lived experiences. Dyadic reasoning is a belief structure that attempts to refine and conceptualize the question of cause and effect based upon observable conditions.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Triadic reasoning is reason that involves three supporting components that have a particular kind of relationship to one another. Triadic reality is made up of the eternal, this is the part of reality we cannot see; the temporal, which is the world of objects that lends itself to human empirical observation; and the linkage between the two. The linkage creates continuity between the observable and the non-observable. Everything scripture reveals about both the natural and the non-natural world is based on this triadic structure. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Our world is subject to a set of unseen triadic relations and triadic faith recognizes this relationship. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. [/FONT]
 
Jan 27, 2013
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#19
These represent the two different ways in which we view human experience and reality in general.

Dyadic reasoning is a reflexive nominal movement that has only two points of valence. It begins on the temporal side and comes to bear upon something else on the temporal side.
Simply put, dyadic reasoning is man attempting to rationalize reality based on human lived experiences. Dyadic reasoning is a belief structure that attempts to refine and conceptualize the question of cause and effect based upon observable conditions.

Triadic reasoning is reason that involves three supporting components that have a particular kind of relationship to one another. Triadic reality is made up of the eternal, this is the part of reality we cannot see; the temporal, which is the world of objects that lends itself to human empirical observation; and the linkage between the two. The linkage creates continuity between the observable and the non-observable. Everything scripture reveals about both the natural and the non-natural world is based on this triadic structure.
Our world is subject to a set of unseen triadic relations and triadic faith recognizes this relationship.
.
what we see and hear.
can proof or an outside source, change, thought patterns. but even reason, would ask, what is a book, a person trying to communicate. the brain would need something to think about. you would need to believe there is a god , for a third component
to be reality and how would you get the third component without, a book or person to communicate this to a person that dont have the third component. so what jesus said , in the parable of the sower, is the third component.( word from god ie rhema)
 
Jan 27, 2013
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#20
The question was not really intended to examine continuity between biblical texts but to cause us to think about how we are to create a synthesis between human experience and the biblical text.
by thinking and asking or searching.
are they human in the bible , did god talk to them, if god can talk to them , could he talk to you/me, so is, what is wrote in the bible, a testimony to a form of proof, to what the writer is trying to communicate, to who ever reads there message.

human experience, differs greatly. but having basic reading skill, and by adding history, to what the normal way of life, to the person your reading about,in the bible would greatly differ in the minds eye. to someone who is reading at face value.
prayer the first moble phone lol
"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.8 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.9 Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone?10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent?11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!Matthew 7