A Generalized Question

[dcontroversal]

There is a member of CC that states the following....

To study the bible from the orginal languages is CARNAL
They seem to indicate that God also INSPIRED the BIBLE in German, English etc.

How many people here believe it is wrong to use the Hebrew and the Greek to glean a better understanding of the word of God?

How many people believe that to use the Greek and Hebrew to better understand the words being used is carnal and cause one to follow men?

God inspired the bible as orginally written in Hebrew and Greek and to say it is carnal to use both to glean a better understanding of the word is foolish at best!

 

[breno785au]

*sigh* No it is not carnal, it's amazing how looking up what certain words mean in their original texts and finding some of the translation was lost along the way.

EDIT: Maybe translation is the wrong word to use, essence maybe?

 

[Reborn]

As long as you think one does not have to learn/study Greek or Hebrew, in order to "understand" what the Bible is really saying............I say go for it!

More power to you.
Deeper understanding and knowledge is always groovy.

 

[cmarieh]

I definitely agree with you on using the Hebrew and the Greek to have a deeper understanding of God's word. Thank You for speaking up on this issue.

 

[crossnote]

Maybe tell that person that to study the bible in English, German etc. is also carnal. Hey, just soar over words on a page with your co-pilot the Holy Spirit. Who needs all those words on a page anyways? (hehe)

 

[dcontroversal]

As long as you think one does not have to learn/study Greek or Hebrew, in order to "understand" what the Bible is really saying............I say go for it!

More power to you.
Deeper understanding and knowledge is always groovy.

I agree....no you do not have to learn Hebrew and or Greek, but can take a good Hebrew/Greek concordance and study the words to get a deeper understanding......I personally think one would use every tool available to grasp the deep truths of God...!

 

[dcontroversal]

I definitely agree with you on using the Hebrew and the Greek to have a deeper understanding of God's word. Thank You for speaking up on this issue.

Thanks and I appreciate your view....I liked to fell out of my chair when this particular member equated a study from the Greek and Hebrew as being carnal and it leading to the following of men over God.......I really believe many are afraid of the languages because a study of the languages can reveal many errors associated with words that have been transliterated instead of translated!

 

[dcontroversal]

Maybe tell that person that to study the bible in English, German etc. is also carnal. Hey, just soar over words on a page with your co-pilot the Holy Spirit. Who needs all those words on a page anyways? (hehe)

Amen to this one as well......Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of GOD as GIVEN by God.....To me it seems rather foolish to say that studying from the orginal languages would be carnal and lead one to follow men instead of God!

 

[dcontroversal]

*sigh* No it is not carnal, it's amazing how looking up what certain words mean in their original texts and finding some of the translation was lost along the way.

EDIT: Maybe translation is the wrong word to use, essence maybe?

I agree.....loving Australia again this time around mate........! Just West of Sydney in Penrith......!

 

[DesiredHaven]

Its all the tongues of men, so its got to be carnal

(just messing)

 

[breno785au]

I agree.....loving Australia again this time around mate........! Just West of Sydney in Penrith......!

Cool What are you doing over here for frequently if I may ask?...Just South East of Melbourne in Pakenham.

 

[DesiredHaven]

As long as you think one does not have to learn/study Greek or Hebrew, in order to "understand" what the Bible is really saying............I say go for it!

More power to you.
Deeper understanding and knowledge is always groovy.

Groovy?

 

[DiscipleDave]

There is a member of CC that states the following....

To study the bible from the orginal languages is CARNAL
They seem to indicate that God also INSPIRED the BIBLE in German, English etc.

How many people here believe it is wrong to use the Hebrew and the Greek to glean a better understanding of the word of God?

How many people believe that to use the Greek and Hebrew to better understand the words being used is carnal and cause one to follow men?

God inspired the bible as orginally written in Hebrew and Greek and to say it is carnal to use both to glean a better understanding of the word is foolish at best!

What i said was this:

Post #163 Under Prophets thread

Anyone who wants to know the Truth concerning Hebrew and Greek if you Have to study it to come to the Truth, please click HERE, to read the article on it.
i assure if God did not what His Word translated into English, it would not have been translated into English. There is a reason God decided to not use the Hebrew and Greek and Latin and Aramaic languages.
Here is the Truth:
The Greek and Hebrew texts are for those who speak Greek and Hebrew
The Latin texts are for those who speak Latin.
The Spanish Bible are for those who speak Spanish
The German Bibles are for those who speak German
The KJV Bible are for those who speak English.
i will tell you another Truth, the Holy Spirit of God taught me more in 10 minutes, then countless hours takings words to the Greek and Hebrew.
Want to search for the Truth in the carnal way. Go to the Greek and Hebrew, go to college, listen to men.
Want to search for the Truth in the Spiritual way. Go to God in prayer, seek the help of the Holy Spirit, and believe and live by the Word of God (KJV)

and a part of post # 169

Those who are are called by God to be a preacher, God teaches them, the Holy Ghost teaches them, they are instructed, they walk a holy life, they LOVE ONE ANOTHER without fail.
Those who want to be a preacher, will study the Bible, will go to college, will study Hebrew and Greek.
Am i saying that is evil or wicked? No, only saying it is carnal, because it is what they want to do, not what they are called to do by God.
i studied Hebrew and Greek, NOT because God told me to, it is what i wanted to do, carnal, comes from me and my own desires. Am i saying the Hebrew and Greek are carnal, as you are indicating above, Heavens NO, i am not saying that, i am saying that the reason people study the Hebrew and Greek is carnal, it what they want to do, or it is something that they feel like they should do. But i assure you, God has never told a person to go study the Hebrew and Greek. Are the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts holy? Yes, Are they inspired by God? Yes, i have never said otherwise as you indicate above. But the reasons people of today go to the Hebrew and Greek, that is what i say is carnal, they do so, not because God instructed them to, they do so, so they can become learned, or they do so, because they do not agree with what a particular verse plainly teaches and therefore goes to the Hebrew and Greek to see what it REALLY means, despite what it PLAINLY says and teaches.
For example if i don't believe there is a Hell that last forever, the verses that say they are there forever, needs to be taken to the Hebrew and Greek, and then it no longer means forever.
i will tell you the Truth and will not lie. The use of the Hebrew and Greek today, after God gave us the KJV, only causes confusion, and doubts. Neither of which is from God. Today, it does more harm than it does good.
i teach people the Truth. You do not NEED to study the Hebrew and Greek to come to the Full Truth of God. And people fib all the time using the "Take it to Hebrew and Greek" card. i was on another thread one time, that topic was the fear of God, and a person kept on saying, if you take the word fear to the Hebrew and Greek it mean respect. And neither the Hebrew nor the Greek interprets the word "fear" to mean respect. After pointing this out to that individual, he then accused me of not knowing anything about Hebrew and Greek, and many other false things he accused me of.

i never said that the Hebrew and Greek were carnal.

^i^ Responding to OP

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

What I discovered over the last 18 months was that we can come to understand the word of God by studying the English translations but that there is so much deeper meaning in the Hebrew.

Hebrew is a complex language that is three dimensional (for lack of a better term) and in understanding this a word can have a written meaning, a picture that is drawn and also a numerical meaning. I know we feel uncomfortable to dig so deep into the Hebrew but I believe there is a reason why ABBA used Hebrew (and also Greek) to write the Bible.

 

[DiscipleDave]

There is a member of CC that states the following....

i appreciate you protecting my identity, i do, but i don't mind people knowing the Truth

To study the bible from the orginal languages is CARNAL

i never said those who study the original languages are carnal. i said those who search for the Truth in the Hebrew and Greek and NOT by prayer and through the Holy Spirit of God are carnal.

They seem to indicate that God also INSPIRED the BIBLE in German, English etc.

you think that i indicated that God INSPIRED the Bible in German, where is this coming from brother. You accuse me of that based on one sentence that said

The German Bible is for Germans

Who else would a German Bible be for, except the Germans? Know you not that Bibles were made in German language for the German people? Know you not that the English Bible (KJV) was made for the English speaking people? What then, do you think the German Bible was made for the French speaking people? Or that the Spanish Bible was made for the Chinese people? i said the German Bible was made for the German people, then all of a sudden based on your logic, i

indicate that God also INSPIRED the BIBLE in German, English etc.

A little bit advice for you, please read what is being said, instead jumping to your own conclusions what you THINK is being said, you doing this, indicates you are young. NOT saying that is bad, only makes me realize what generation i am discussing with.

How many people here believe it is wrong to use the Hebrew and the Greek to glean a better understanding of the word of God?

Not me. i only think it is wrong, when people teach you MUST or HAVE or NEED to study the Hebrew and Greek in order to understand and learn the Truth. i teach you do not NEED the Hebrew and Greek in order to understand the Word of God perfectly. There is nothing wrong with a person who goes to Hebrew and Greek to glean a better understanding of the Word of God, what is sad to me, is that they THINK (carnal) that they NEED TO, or HAVE TO, or MUST do so in order to understand the Bible. i myself did much study in Hebrew and Greek, i myself went to it to glean better understanding, that, in and of itself is not wrong or evil or wicked. But what i am saying it is NOT necessary. The Holy Ghost will teach you all that you need to know with just your Bible. Is Reading the book "A purpose Driven Life" bad, evil, or wicked. NO. Can a person glean a better understanding of the Word of God by reading that book? YES, Does a person NEED TO read that book to come to the Truth of the Word of God, NO, do they HAVE to read it? NO, MUST they read it? NO. Hebrew and Greek is the exact same thing, You don't NEED to, you don't HAVE to, and it is not a MUST do thing in order to come to the Truth.

How many people believe that to use the Greek and Hebrew to better understand the words being used is carnal and cause one to follow men?

Who told you that it causes on to follow men? i never said such a thing, this is coming from your own mind, your own thinking. Know you not that all a person NEEDS is Jesus and the Word of God, ANYTHING other than that is carnal. A spiritual person ONLY NEEDS Jesus and the Word of God. Those who THINK they NEED the Hebrew and Greek to better understand the Word of God, is indeed being carnal. THINKING that understanding comes from an ancient text, or even the Bible (book) itself is carnal. UNDERSTANDING comes from God, not from Hebrew or Greek. Anyone can read the Bible and get nothing from it, no understanding whatsoever, Understanding comes from God, it is the Holy Spirit of God that reveals this understanding to you. Those, me being one of them, that seek that understanding any place other than from God, is seeking it in a carnal manner.
Even a person who studies the Bible, on his/her own merit, or his/her own intelligence is studying in a carnal way.
Those who seek Truth via books, ancient manuscripts (Hebrew and Greek), their own study, ONLY. are doing it carnally
Those who seek Truth via God and His Word, ONLY are doing it spiritually.
Am i saying study is evil then? Heavens no. Study is good. But if you are going to the Hebrew and Greek to get the Truth, the question is, why are you not seeking this Truth From God? The Truth is a heart thing, the Truth is LOVE ONE ANOTHER. the Truth is not letters, words, meanings of words. Jesus is the Truth, if He is in you, He will teach you the Truth, and all that learning i did, studying Hebrew and Greek is but dung, compared to the Truth a person learns from the Holy Spirit. But here is the Truth, if you are looking for the Truth in the Hebrew and Greek, you will not find it there. If you are looking for the Truth in the Bible, you will not find it there either. Jesus is not the Bible. Jesus is not Hebrew and Greek. Yes it is written that Jesus is the Word, that is True. But the only way to find Truth, is NOT merely reading the Bible, NOT studying the Hebrew and Greek, the only way Truth is revealed to a person, is if TRUTH live in that person, Jesus is the Truth. If anyone is seeking that Truth other than Jesus it is CARNAL. Anyone who seek the Truth, via their mind, is carnal. The Truth can only be found from the heart, NOT the mind. Those who go to the Hebrew and Greek are seeking the Truth via the mind, they will not find it there. The mind is canal, the heart is LOVE. seek the Truth via the mind, it is carnal, seek the Truth via your heart, it is spiritual. Those who seek the Truth via the heart, will find it. Those who seek it some other way, will not find it.

God inspired the bible as orginally written in Hebrew and Greek and to say it is carnal to use both to glean a better understanding of the word is foolish at best!

..... .. . . foolish to them that are still seeking the Truth via their own mind, i agree.

^i^ Responding to OP

 

[DiscipleDave]

What I discovered over the last 18 months was that we can come to understand the word of God by studying the English translations but that there is so much deeper meaning in the Hebrew.

Hebrew is a complex language that is three dimensional (for lack of a better term) and in understanding this a word can have a written meaning, a picture that is drawn and also a numerical meaning. I know we feel uncomfortable to dig so deep into the Hebrew but I believe there is a reason why ABBA used Hebrew (and also Greek) to write the Bible.

Yes, i said the same thing, that one word could mean several different things, to which i was told that i must not know Hebrew and Greek to well. Even though i told him, that i have studied it extensively.

^i^ Responding to Post #14

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Yes, i said the same thing, that one word could mean several different things, to which i was told that i must not know Hebrew and Greek to well. Even though i told him, that i have studied it extensively.

^i^ Responding to Post #14

Well, other people can take it as a coincidence that the word of God is comprehensive, I am not leaving it up to chance because I know the Creator had his hand in it

 

[MarcR]

Several reasons why recourse yo the original languages is desirable:

1) The Hebrew OT and to a far lesser extent the Greek NT is rich in double or multiple takes and idiomatic expressions that get missed by the translators. God is certainly able to express Himself clearly; therefore if the Hebrew has a double take both takes are intended.

2) As in English, many Hebrew and Greek words have multiple meanings and the translators usually choose the meaning most used rather than the best fit.

3) In Hebrew often the only differentiation between a statement and a question is inflection; and a fully articulated Hebrew font will give the proper inflection.

 

[posthuman]

that's a bit like saying addition and subtraction are math but number theory and analysis aren't.
i don't think you are being carnally minded to look for a deeper understanding at all.

it's true however that -
i can prove the square root of 2 is irrational, but i still make mistakes counting or multiplying sometimes.
you are not automatically a 'better' or 'more mature' believer just because you can read Hebrew or Greek. there are people who can multiply 4 digit numbers in their heads but who can't differentiate x[SUP]​2 -- [/SUP]knowledge and wisdom are not the same thing, but related things.

i think it is very easy for us to swell up with a sort of intellectual pride, and especially as these days it is so convenient for us to look up words in lexicons and see the original language, even though we haven't actually been taught to properly understand them - we are not all qualified to translate just because we have an app or a website that shows us the majority text, but pretty often we act like we are.
that kind of false intellectualism is carnal, but seeking out knowledge this way is not; we are doing it for God, to know Him and His Word better.

we just ought to keep ourselves humble, especially those of us who aren't actually trained but have access to greater knowledge of the text. we have enough knowledge to be dangerous, not nearly enough to be 'experts.'

 

[Sophia]

Hmmm...
I can definitely say that there are some preachers who use lexicons as a way to sort through definitions till they find one that suits their personal agenda...
But as a whole, the study of Greek and Hebrew is a well rewarded study, both in growing in the knowledge of the Word, and in learning new things that the English cannot translate: like the poetic structures of the Psalms and Proverbs, and the double meanings of certain words (like when Christ said "I am the bread of life", it is a play on words, along with being a deep theological statement.)