Legalism empowers DEMONS in your life!

[Mitspa]

☝t<><
James 2:26 (HCSB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

James 2:14 (ESV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works?
Can that faith save him? (Implied answer is NO!)

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

Acts 24:13-16 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Neither can they provide evidence to you of what they now bring against me.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But I confess this to you: I worship my fathers’ God according to the Way, which they call a sect, believing all the things that are written in the Law and in the Prophets.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And I have a hope in God, which these men themselves also accept, that there is going to be a resurrection, both of the righteous and the unrighteous.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] I always do my best to have a clear conscience toward God and men.

Paul' Message:

Acts 28:23 (HCSB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] After arranging a day with him, many came to him at his lodging. From dawn to dusk he expounded and witnessed about the kingdom of God. He tried to persuade them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets.

1 John 5:3 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,

1 John 2:4 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The one who says, “I have come to know Him”, yet doesn't keep His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

2 John 1:6 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

 

[VCO]

That's really what Paul is saying when he says we serve God by the Spirit and not by the letter...He goes on to show how faith and love are true obedience ...that's what walking in the spirit is. Works that flow from our righteousness in Christ. The "letter" are works unto or to be righteous.

We cannot keep the law by the letter because of the weakness of our flesh, but we can by faith and love walk in the Spirit and those things demanded in the law are fulfilled. Its God working in us, and its His ability that manifest good works, not the flesh of man.

My how you flip flopped. But at least we finally agree.

 

[Mitspa]

My how you flip flopped. But at least we finally agree.

flip flopped? If you have not heard what Im have been saying its because you failed to listen as I explain how obedience has gone from the "letter" written code of the law unto the spirit.....I have about 4,000 post on this forum and I would guess in half of those I have made this point and upheld true obedience to God through faith and love....in the "spirit" and not according to the "letter"...obedience from the spirit not legalism and in the power of the flesh. The law of faith and love in Christ. not the law of Moses! I think that's where you are missing my point? Our obedience is the Christ in the New Covenant, not to Moses in the Old Covenant. In the Spirit and not the oldness of the letter.

 

[VCO]

flip flopped? If you have not heard what Im have been saying its because you failed to listen as I explain how obedience has gone from the "letter" written code of the law unto the spirit.....I have about 4,000 post on this forum and I would guess in half of those I have made this point and upheld true obedience to God through faith and love....in the "spirit" and not according to the "letter"...obedience from the spirit not legalism and in the power of the flesh. The law of faith and love in Christ. not the law of Moses! I think that's where you are missing my point? Our obedience is the Christ in the New Covenant, not to Moses in the Old Covenant. In the Spirit and not the oldness of the letter.

Check your six, because just about everyone on this site thought you were saying that NO CHRISTIAN should ever obey any Old Testament Law at anytime for any reason. In other words we thought you were preaching a LOVE ONLY Emotionalism Gospel (a FALSE GOSPEL) that teaches zero actual physical obedience to Old Testament LAW, even when it is ONLY our way to manifest Love for GOD. You also give different meanings to common Christian Terminology quite a bit, so it would help immensely if you would define your terminology briefly whenever you use it, such as:

"Under the Law"

"Legalism"

"the Letter kills"

NONE of which have anything to do with obeying Old Testament Commandments because you LOVE GOD, because you know HE did it all SAVING you for all time. And even that LOVE for HIM spawns out of the LOVE from GOD that the Holy Spirit poured into our hearts (Rom. 5:5).

 

[Mitspa]

Check your six, because just about everyone on this site thought you were saying that NO CHRISTIAN should ever obey any Old Testament Law at anytime for any reason. In other words we thought you were preaching a LOVE ONLY Emotionalism Gospel (a FALSE GOSPEL) that teaches zero actual physical obedience to Old Testament LAW, even when it is ONLY our way to manifest Love for GOD. You also give different meanings to common Christian Terminology quite a bit, so it would help immensely if you would define your terminology briefly whenever you use it, such as:

"Under the Law"

"Legalism"

"the Letter kills"

NONE of which have anything to do with obeying Old Testament Commandments because you LOVE GOD, because you know HE did it all SAVING you for all time. And even that LOVE for HIM spawns out of the LOVE from GOD that the Holy Spirit poured into our hearts (Rom. 5:5).

Well sometimes folks hear what they want to hear, and I doubt you speak for "just about everyone"? And I always try to use biblical terms such as "under the law" and "the letter kills"..."legalism" I have explain over and again... Maybe you should take the time to really understand what others are saying before you start to insult and attack them? But anyway I hope we can forget any contention you might feel towards me, and if you want to better understand a point I make? Just try to show some politeness and honesty to get to the issue and we will get along fine Im sure

 

[VCO]

Well sometimes folks hear what they want to hear, and I doubt you speak for "just about everyone"? And I always try to use biblical terms such as "under the law" and "the letter kills"..."legalism" I have explain over and again... Maybe you should take the time to really understand what others are saying before you start to insult and attack them? But anyway I hope we can forget any contention you might feel towards me, and if you want to better understand a point I make? Just try to show some politeness and honesty to get to the issue and we will get along fine Im sure

I read quite a few of your posts and I found you were using those terms in a way that made it obvious that you gave them a different definition than mainline Christian Churches. That was why I started to ask you what denomination or church you attended. I asked that at least four times and to my knowledge; and you refused to answer that question.

IS anyone else here afraid to tell us what church or denomination you call home?

Or is Mitspa the only one?

Like I told you earlier, my Christian background after I was born again at the age of 29 has been primarily non-denominational conservative Evangelical Churches, such as Community Churches or Bible Churches. We did go to a non-denominational Independent Baptist Church for two years; and for a total of about 3 years we went to Evangelical Free Churches; and for about three years, we attended an Evangelical Lutheran Church.

Why so many different Churches?

We moved a lot. Doctrinally all those Churches were almost identical.

 

[Mitspa]

I read quite a few of your posts and I found you were using those terms in a way that made it obvious that you gave them a different definition than mainline Christian Churches. That was why I started to ask you what denomination or church you attended. I asked that at least four times and to my knowledge; and you refused to answer that question.

IS anyone else here afraid to tell us what church or denomination you call home?

Or is Mitspa the only one?

Like I told you earlier, my Christian background after I was born again at the age of 29 has been primarily non-denominational conservative Evangelical Churches, such as Community Churches or Bible Churches. We did go to a non-denominational Independent Baptist Church for two years; and for a total of about 3 years we went to Evangelical Free Churches; and for about three years, we attended an Evangelical Lutheran Church.

Why so many different Churches?

We moved a lot. Doctrinally all those Churches were almost identical.

Well I guess you could consider me a non-denominational charismatic type....But I have studied most of the well-known teachers in the protestant tradition, I would say my favorite teacher is George Muller and I really agree with much of Spurgeon doctrines... I don't believe in denominationalism and do not restrict the Holy Spirits ability to teach based upon the limits or traditions of any group. I believe in the biblical standard and the faith once delivered to the saints. I believe the Holy Spirit is exactly the same Holy Spirit and has not changed..

Maybe this helps you, but if your looking to associate me with any group, I don't claim any certain group but attend a local non-denominational church and visit some others as I desire or as I am invited.

 

[michael56]

Well I guess you could consider me a non-denominational charismatic type....But I have studied most of the well-known teachers in the protestant tradition, I would say my favorite teacher is George Muller and I really agree with much of Spurgeon doctrines... I don't believe in denominationalism and do not restrict the Holy Spirits ability to teach based upon the limits or traditions of any group. I believe in the biblical standard and the faith once delivered to the saints. I believe the Holy Spirit is exactly the same Holy Spirit and has not changed..

Maybe this helps you, but if your looking to associate me with any group, I don't claim any certain group but attend a local non-denominational church and visit some others as I desire or as I am invited.

Amen, totally agree

 

[VCO]

Well I guess you could consider me a non-denominational charismatic type....But I have studied most of the well-known teachers in the protestant tradition, I would say my favorite teacher is George Muller and I really agree with much of Spurgeon doctrines... I don't believe in denominationalism and do not restrict the Holy Spirits ability to teach based upon the limits or traditions of any group. I believe in the biblical standard and the faith once delivered to the saints. I believe the Holy Spirit is exactly the same Holy Spirit and has not changed..

Maybe this helps you, but if your looking to associate me with any group, I don't claim any certain group but attend a local non-denominational church and visit some others as I desire or as I am invited.

Not exactly, I found your usage of the those terms ("Under the Law", "Legalism", & "the Letter kills") to be so strangely DIFFERENT than the way almost all of Mainline Christianity uses those same terms, that I was suspecting you hailed from some form of psuedo-Christian Cult. That is why I asked if you could Please provide a Doctrinal Statement of Faith. Mainline Churches all have a published Statement of Faith for the public to read, the Psuedo-Cults rarely do, because they are in the Bait and Switch game, they trick you into coming to their Church by telling you what they know you will agree with, and then later on they gradually brain wash you into believing the false doctrines.

Yes Charismatic is a type christian belief, and yes they have lots of Churches that are Independent and not affiliated with a Charismatic Denomination such as Assembly of GOD, Four Square, United Pentcostal, etc. And they all are certainly part of the Mainline Churches. No I am not a Charismatic. In fact both my wife and I came out of it, because we could not find a single example of Tongues today being used like the Disciples did it. My wife was raised in it, and I was getting caught up into Kenneth Copeland when we first married. THANK GOD, He exposed Copeland to the point that I finally recognized him for what he was. NO, I do not want to debate the Charismatic Gifts. Been there done that, WAY TOO MANY TIMES IN THE PAST.

If I was you, I would work on how you word your posts on this subject, several of us even mentioned how we thought you were teaching a false Doctrine of teaching others to shun or ignore studying the Old Testament too. AND there are several Psuedo-Christian Cults that tell their followers to just love Jesus and don't worry about obeying the Commandments. I have been researching cults for a very long time, and saving newspaper clippings to prove the false teachings that they have published over the years. Two drawers of a filing cabinet are full of those clippings. That was in the 80s and early 90s before I bought a computer.

So if you are saying you believe a Born Again Christian should manifest his LOVE for GOD by lovingly obeying HIM by physically keeping His Commandments, whether the commandments are in the New Testament or the Old Testament; then we are in agreement.

If you believe NO WAY should a Christian obey the Old Testament Commandments for any reason, including LOVE; then in my opinion you would at least, be part of a border-line Psuedo-Christian Cult.

 

[Mitspa]

Not exactly, I found your usage of the those terms ("Under the Law", "Legalism", & "the Letter kills") to be so strangely DIFFERENT than the way almost all of Mainline Christianity uses those same terms, that I was suspecting you hailed from some form of psuedo-Christian Cult. That is why I asked if you could Please provide a Doctrinal Statement of Faith. Mainline Churches all have a published Statement of Faith for the public to read, the Psuedo-Cults rarely do, because they are in the Bait and Switch game, they trick you into coming to their Church by telling you what they know you will agree with, and then later on they gradually brain wash you into believing the false doctrines.

Yes Charismatic is a type christian belief, and yes they have lots of Churches that are Independent and not affiliated with a Charismatic Denomination such as Assembly of GOD, Four Square, United Pentcostal, etc. And they all are certainly part of the Mainline Churches. No I am not a Charismatic. In fact both my wife and I came out of it, because we could not find a single example of Tongues today being used like the Disciples did it. My wife was raised in it, and I was getting caught up into Kenneth Copeland when we first married. THANK GOD, He exposed Copeland to the point that I finally recognized him for what he was. NO, I do not want to debate the Charismatic Gifts. Been there done that, WAY TOO MANY TIMES IN THE PAST.

If I was you, I would work on how you word your posts on this subject, several of us even mentioned how we thought you were teaching a false Doctrine of teaching others to shun or ignore studying the Old Testament too. AND there are several Psuedo-Christian Cults that tell their followers to just love Jesus and don't worry about obeying the Commandments. I have been researching cults for a very long time, and saving newspaper clippings to prove the false teachings that they have published over the years. Two drawers of a filing cabinet are full of those clippings. That was in the 80s and early 90s before I bought a computer.

So if you are saying you believe a Born Again Christian should manifest his LOVE for GOD by lovingly obeying HIM by physically keeping His Commandments, whether the commandments are in the New Testament or the Old Testament; then we are in agreement.

If you believe NO WAY should a Christian obey the Old Testament Commandments for any reason, including LOVE; then in my opinion you would at least, be part of a border-line Psuedo-Christian Cult.

Well there seems to always be strive and contention with those who claim to be this or that based on one groups beliefs verses another, so I try not to get in the middle of that mess and don't worry too much what men think. At the end of it all we will all stand before the Lord and answer to Him, and He wont care too much about what brother so and so said. may we all put away denominationalism and serve God in faith and love.

 

[sparty-g]

If you believe NO WAY should a Christian obey the Old Testament Commandments for any reason, including LOVE; then in my opinion you would at least, be part of a border-line Psuedo-Christian Cult.

VCO:

Mitspa can respond himself(?) about what he believes, but I personally wouldn't jump so quickly to labeling what you describe as "a borderline Psuedo-Christian Cult." I certainly disagree with what you have described but this sort of "hyper-grace" doctrine is becoming very popular nowadays. If you have the time, I suggest you read Andrew Farley's "The Naked Gospel" and the poke around the Amazon review forum to see what I'm talking about. I was shocked at some of the things I read in the book and online. Borrow or rent it from a library, if you can.

 

[Mitspa]

Ac 6:10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.
11 Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God.
12 And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council,
13 And set up false witnesses,

 

[VCO]

Well there seems to always be strive and contention with those who claim to be this or that based on one groups beliefs verses another, so I try not to get in the middle of that mess and don't worry too much what men think. At the end of it all we will all stand before the Lord and answer to Him, and He wont care too much about what brother so and so said. may we all put away denominationalism and serve God in faith and love.

That is why I feel at home in the non-denominational Churches, because I was raised in an era when the Denominational Bickering was in it's hay day, and I grew VERY tired of hearing each denomination PUT DOWN other denominations.

The way I see it, Christ Himself recognized SEVEN types of Churches, in the first three chapter of the book of Revelation. So who are we to recognize Less.

Therefore, I believe if you want to; you are invited to my small cabin out back on a bend in the Crystal River, when we get to Heaven. Then we will all have a good laugh about how many things we interpreted wrong, because:

1 John 3:2 (NKJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

1 Corinthians 13:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.

I used that example deliberately, because BACK when I was first looking for a Bible Teaching Church (One that spends more time Teaching the WORD than the entire rest of the Service.); I heard a sermon from a Baptist Missionary that shocked me. He actually said in his sermon, "I don't know about you, but the reason I serve the Lord is I want the biggest, fanciest mansion on the Street of Gold. I don't want to get stuck with a little shack out back on the Crystal River." My JAW dropped open, he after many years on the Mission Field, he still did not know the ONLY acceptable motive for SERVING THE LORD. That motive is: We SERVE HIM, because WE LOVE HIM. Any other motive is a pile of filthy rags in His sight. I walked out of that Church that day, KNOWING I would never go back to that Church, and in my mind I was begging the LORD, "Lord, please give my that shack on the Crystal River, I just want to be there with you."


☝t<><


1 Timothy 1:8 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But we know that the law is good, provided one uses it legitimately. {To teach what sin is and to reveal sin; and to manifest our LOVE for GOD, are the legitimate purposes. Using Obedience to the Law as a means to earn part of one's Salvation, Justification, and Righteousness, is a TOTALLY FALSE DOCTRINE.}

 

[VCO]

VCO:

Mitspa can respond himself(?) about what he believes, but I personally wouldn't jump so quickly to labeling what you describe as "a borderline Psuedo-Christian Cult." I certainly disagree with what you have described but this sort of "hyper-grace" doctrine is becoming very popular nowadays. If you have the time, I suggest you read Andrew Farley's "The Naked Gospel" and the poke around the Amazon review forum to see what I'm talking about. I was shocked at some of the things I read in the book and online. Borrow or rent it from a library, if you can.

And I suggest you read, "The Gospel According to Jesus" by Dr. John MacArthur. That book exposes the Easy Believism false gospel better than anything I have ever read. Easy Believism truly is a false gospel that is spreading like wild fire. They are turning Churches into worldly-like Christian Entertainment Centers, instead of Houses Prayer, that teach Sound Doctrine, and truly Worship and submit to JESUS as LORD, which means willingly surrendering to HIM as MASTER.

Here is a used paperback copy for $.50 plus $3.99 shipping on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...?ie=UTF8&condition=used&sr=8-1&qid=1426194003

NO, I do not believe there is SALVATION apart from submitting to JESUS as LORD, which means willingly surrendering to HIM as MASTER. Here is Jesus describing the Easy Believism Church that dominates this Age (which I meant by borderline Psuedo-Christian Cult, which means they have NOT crossed that line but are close to it).

Revelation 3:14-16 (NKJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "And to the angel {messenger} of the church of the Laodiceans write, 'These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God:
[SUP]15 [/SUP] I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

Why is it better for those whose Love for Jesus is Cold instead of Lukewarm? Those who are Cold are TEACHABLE, while those who are Lukewarm are NOT TEACHABLE, because they think they are spiritually rich, when in reality they are spiritually bankrupt.

There in verse 16 is Jesus saying HE will VOMIT them out of His mouth if they continue on that Easy Believism path they have chosen. I would take that as a VERY SERIOUS WARNING wouldn't you? How important does Jesus take adding to the Word or Subtracting from it? How important does Jesus take Keeping the Commandments out of LOVE?

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

Matthew 7:21 (HCSB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.