Where is the Connection?

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Richie_2uk

Guest
#1
I was reading an article, and it showed some Baptist christians performing Magic and illusion in front of the congregation, mainly for the Children. I know in bible there were Socery, and witchery. And I have come accross a few people regarding Moses and Jesus as magiscian's. Purely becuse Jesus walked on water, turned water into wine and healed the blind. and Moses parted the sea.

Now these Baptist Christians who believed in God and him being the almighty powerful one. Yet they practice magic and illusions and merge it with Christianity. My question is, is that right to do? I personally don't think its right or think Christian's should practice this as a Christian.

The bible is clear to keep away from these types of things as they are come from the devil and his influences.

But I was wondering how some of these Christians perform such magic tricks and illusions and were is the connection of Christianity and Magic? As far I am aware, there is no connection. and that we should not practice such things.

Lets look the meanings of Magic and Illusions:

MAGIC: Noun.
The power of apparently influencing events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.

"suddenly, as if by magic, the doors start to open"

These are the elations to MAGIC:

Sorcery,
witchcraft,
wizardry,
necromancy,
enchantment,
spellworking,
incantation,
occultism,
ocult,
Black magic,
Dark, margic,
Black arts,
devilry,
divination,
malediction,
voodoo,
hoodoo,
sympathetic magic,
white magic,
witching,
witchery.


Illusion: Noun:
An instance of a wrong or misinterpreted perception of a sensory experience.
"stripes embellish the surface to create the illusion of various wood-grain textures"

a deceptive appearance or impression.

"the illusion of family togetherness"

a false idea or belief.

noun: illusion; plural noun: illusions
"he had no illusions about the trouble she was in"

These are relations to ILLUSIONS.

mirage,
hallucinations,
apparition,
phantasm,
phantom,
vision,
spectre,
fantasy,
frigment of the imagination,
will-o-wisp,
trick of the light,
ignis fatuus,
the use if mirrors, paints lights and speed of hands.

 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,862
9,581
113
#2
in the bible, doesn't it say somewhere that the king's magicians could do some of the same things Jesus performed? How did they manage to do what he did? or am I hallucinating and i read that somewhere else..? lol :)
 
R

Richie_2uk

Guest
#3
in the bible, doesn't it say somewhere that the king's magicians could do some of the same things Jesus performed? How did they manage to do what he did? or am I hallucinating and i read that somewhere else..? lol :)
But Jesus didnt perform magic, So how can he say that he performed magic like Jesus did? The holy Spirit is not Magic. I think People need to realise the difference. Jesus performed many miracles and healings through the Holy Spirit right?

Who did those people used in bible times, to perform magic? certainly they didnt use the Holy Spirit thats for sure. They used the Devils influences..
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#4
I think it can be an EXCELLENT teaching tool about understand many things seen in life, and is probably used as such in many churches.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,862
9,581
113
#5
But Jesus didnt perform magic, So how can he say that he performed magic like Jesus did? The holy Spirit is not Magic. I think People need to realise the difference. Jesus performed many miracles and healings through the Holy Spirit right?

Who did those people used in bible times, to perform magic? certainly they didnt use the Holy Spirit thats for sure. They used the Devils influences..
i know it's somewhere in the bible, where God gave someone commands to perform certain things in front of a king, to see if the king's magicians could duplicate it. Wasn't that David or somebody? *maybe i'm nuts* :)
 
R

Richie_2uk

Guest
#6
I think it can be an EXCELLENT teaching tool about understand many things seen in life, and is probably used as such in many churches.
How can it be an excellent tool if the bicle tells us to keep away from such things? you can have cake and eat it as the saying goes. You cant do the devils things as a tool for churches.
 
R

Richie_2uk

Guest
#7
i know it's somewhere in the bible, where God gave someone commands to perform certain things in front of a king, to see if the king's magicians could duplicate it. Wasn't that David or somebody? *maybe i'm nuts* :)
I think I know were you mean, a stick turned into a snake in front of moses?
 
D

DesiredHaven

Guest
#9
God was teaching Moses a little about snake handling by using the rod in his hand to do so

And the LORD said unto him, What is that in thine hand?

And he said,
A rod.

And he said, Cast it on the ground. And he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from before it.

And the LORD said unto Moses, Put forth thine hand, and take it by the tail. And he put forth his hand, and caught it, and it became a rod in his hand:

After that rehearsal, Aaron was told to

Take thy rod, and cast it before Pharaoh, and it shall become a serpent.

Likewise did Pharaohs wise men so the same

For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents

but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods.
 
R

Richie_2uk

Guest
#10
nope it wasn't Moses..if I could remember, I'd tell you who it is.. :(
no worries, I got an idea. But again it wasnt magic that Jesus performed, the source of his power was not magic. I just understand why or how these Christians use magic and illusions as tool to teach Christianity. Its like saying you can do the Devils things as longs it teaches the gospel? Doesn't make sense does it lol
 
R

Richie_2uk

Guest
#11
God was teaching Moses a little about snake handling by using the rod in his hand to do so

And the LORD said unto him, What is that in thine hand?

And he said,
A rod.

And he said, Cast it on the ground. And he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from before it.

And the LORD said unto Moses, Put forth thine hand, and take it by the tail. And he put forth his hand, and caught it, and it became a rod in his hand:

After that rehearsal, Aaron was told to

Take thy rod, and cast it before Pharaoh, and it shall become a serpent.

Likewise did Pharaohs wise men so the same

For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents

but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods.
Yeh thats it, but we found out it was not that story Blue_ladybug was on about, But yeh you got the story I thought it was.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,862
9,581
113
#12
no worries, I got an idea. But again it wasnt magic that Jesus performed, the source of his power was not magic. I just understand why or how these Christians use magic and illusions as tool to teach Christianity. Its like saying you can do the Devils things as longs it teaches the gospel? Doesn't make sense does it lol
nope it doesn't make sense.. I know Jesus works weren't magic.. I forgot the word (miracles) for it..lol.. :) I seem to be brain-dumb today..
 
R

Richie_2uk

Guest
#13
nope it doesn't make sense.. I know Jesus works weren't magic.. I forgot the word (miracles) for it..lol.. :) I seem to be brain-dumb today..
haha dont worry my brain is not on my head either hehe ,must be the meds hehe, But I was like? What on earth are they doing? after reading this article.. but only in america haha joke,
 

Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
271
83
#14
How can we judge what is magic or wrong unless we see it? Maybe the illusions were like parables. If it moved the children to see Jesus in a more real way, it was good. It is always the fruit of something that tells you if the Holy Spirit was behind it.

You never told us the message behind the things that were done, or even how they were done.
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
69
48
#17
I was reading an article, and it showed some Baptist christians performing Magic and illusion in front of the congregation, mainly for the Children. I know in bible there were Socery, and witchery. And I have come accross a few people regarding Moses and Jesus as magiscian's. Purely becuse Jesus walked on water, turned water into wine and healed the blind. and Moses parted the sea.

Now these Baptist Christians who believed in God and him being the almighty powerful one. Yet they practice magic and illusions and merge it with Christianity. My question is, is that right to do? I personally don't think its right or think Christian's should practice this as a Christian.

The bible is clear to keep away from these types of things as they are come from the devil and his influences.

But I was wondering how some of these Christians perform such magic tricks and illusions and were is the connection of Christianity and Magic? As far I am aware, there is no connection. and that we should not practice such things.

Lets look the meanings of Magic and Illusions:

MAGIC: Noun.
The power of apparently influencing events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.

"suddenly, as if by magic, the doors start to open"

These are the elations to MAGIC:

Sorcery,
witchcraft,
wizardry,
necromancy,
enchantment,
spellworking,
incantation,
occultism,
ocult,
Black magic,
Dark, margic,
Black arts,
devilry,
divination,
malediction,
voodoo,
hoodoo,
sympathetic magic,
white magic,
witching,
witchery.


Illusion: Noun:
An instance of a wrong or misinterpreted perception of a sensory experience.
"stripes embellish the surface to create the illusion of various wood-grain textures"

a deceptive appearance or impression.

"the illusion of family togetherness"

a false idea or belief.

noun: illusion; plural noun: illusions
"he had no illusions about the trouble she was in"

These are relations to ILLUSIONS.

mirage,
hallucinations,
apparition,
phantasm,
phantom,
vision,
spectre,
fantasy,
frigment of the imagination,
will-o-wisp,
trick of the light,
ignis fatuus,
the use if mirrors, paints lights and speed of hands.

It should not be done in the Church at all, not the place for it.
However doing tricks to entertain children is not evil, wicked, or sinful.
Now if it is magic, that is evil, wicked, and sinful.
But making a coin appear out of someones ear by slight of hand, is not evil, wicked, or sinful.
But if you have the ability to actually make a coin appear via magic, it is evil, wicked, and sinful.

Also if others are offended by seeing that type of stuff, calling it magic and the such, it is sinful to continue to do it causing others to be offended, even if the act itself is not sinful, it is because others are offended.. it is not a sin for me to eat meat, but it is a sin for me to eat meat in the house of vegetarians, who would be offended by my eating meat.

We Christians are also taught, to abstain from all appearances of evil, if it has a change to appear evil, then it should not be done.

^i^ Responding to OP
 
D

DesiredHaven

Guest
#18
Yeh thats it, but we found out it was not that story Blue_ladybug was on about, But yeh you got the story I thought it was.
Which one is it though, Im curious
 
R

Richie_2uk

Guest
#19
It should not be done in the Church at all, not the place for it.
However doing tricks to entertain children is not evil, wicked, or sinful.
Now if it is magic, that is evil, wicked, and sinful.
But making a coin appear out of someones ear by slight of hand, is not evil, wicked, or sinful.
But if you have the ability to actually make a coin appear via magic, it is evil, wicked, and sinful.

Also if others are offended by seeing that type of stuff, calling it magic and the such, it is sinful to continue to do it causing others to be offended, even if the act itself is not sinful, it is because others are offended.. it is not a sin for me to eat meat, but it is a sin for me to eat meat in the house of vegetarians, who would be offended by my eating meat.

We Christians are also taught, to abstain from all appearances of evil, if it has a change to appear evil, then it should not be done.

^i^ Responding to OP
I understand what you are saying, but even doing a little magic trick still giving a false hood about it? wont that put something in a child's head, oooh magic, and later in life they would want to delve into it.?
 
R

Richie_2uk

Guest
#20
Which one is it though, Im curious
well I thought it was about the rod and staff sory, but it wasnt the one she was thinking of, so I dont really know untill she remembers which one it was herself.