Some thoughts on what we think we know for certain

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Feb 7, 2015
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#1
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." -Mark Twain

More dangerous than ignorance is educated ignorance masquerading as certainty. A brand of ignorance convinced it knows the truth because it has, at length, looked into ONE SIDE of an issue, is a far more dangerous thing than even anti-intellectualism because it appeals to our inner desire for certainty, and so can quickly become viral in nature. Regularly challenge yourself by looking at ideas that run contrary to your own, it's the only way to combat this disease.

"If one's provinciality has never been challenged, it's easy to know a lot of things for certain." -Marcus Borg
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
69
48
#2
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." -Mark Twain

More dangerous than ignorance is educated ignorance masquerading as certainty. A brand of ignorance convinced it knows the truth because it has, at length, looked into ONE SIDE of an issue, is a far more dangerous thing than even anti-intellectualism because it appeals to our inner desire for certainty, and so can quickly become viral in nature. Regularly challenge yourself by looking at ideas that run contrary to your own, it's the only way to combat this disease.

"If one's provinciality has never been challenged, it's easy to know a lot of things for certain." -Marcus Borg
Here is a Truth and it is certain:

If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures, then what you believe is WRONG.

change you belief to match what Scriptures teach.
Don't change Scriptures to match your belief.
^i^ Responding to Post #
 
D

Delivery

Guest
#3
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." -Mark Twain

More dangerous than ignorance is educated ignorance masquerading as certainty. A brand of ignorance convinced it knows the truth because it has, at length, looked into ONE SIDE of an issue, is a far more dangerous thing than even anti-intellectualism because it appeals to our inner desire for certainty, and so can quickly become viral in nature. Regularly challenge yourself by looking at ideas that run contrary to your own, it's the only way to combat this disease.

"If one's provinciality has never been challenged, it's easy to know a lot of things for certain." -Marcus Borg
It reminds me of what Paul said about educated smart alecs who think they know it all:

[SUP]18[/SUP] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
[SUP]19[/SUP] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewedit unto them.
[SUP]20[/SUP] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[SUP]21[/SUP] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
[SUP]22[/SUP] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
[SUP]23[/SUP] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
[SUP]24[/SUP] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[SUP]25[/SUP] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

And as Paul said in another place:[SUP]8[/SUP] Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

[SUP]19[/SUP] For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
[SUP]20[/SUP] And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

But there is one thing I'd like to clarify here. You said, "Regularly challenge yourself by looking at ideas contrary to your own." This is true only up to a point. I'm reminded of something that somebody else once said, "You can't keep your mind too open or people are apt to throw a lot of garbage into it." I'm certain of quite a few things based on my knowledge of the scriptures;

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


[SUP]1[/SUP] And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
[SUP]12[/SUP] He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
[SUP]13[/SUP] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

I know that I have eternal life through Jesus and that He is the only way to heaven, the only truth, and the only life. I know I am of the truth because I know Jesus.

[SUP]37[/SUP] Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

I am certain of these truths and I'm not going to entertain any ideas that run contrary to these Truths.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
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#4
It reminds me of what Paul said about educated smart alecs who think they know it all:

[SUP]18[/SUP] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
[SUP]19[/SUP] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewedit unto them.
[SUP]20[/SUP] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[SUP]21[/SUP] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
[SUP]22[/SUP] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
[SUP]23[/SUP] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
[SUP]24[/SUP] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[SUP]25[/SUP] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

And as Paul said in another place:[SUP]8[/SUP] Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

[SUP]19[/SUP] For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
[SUP]20[/SUP] And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

But there is one thing I'd like to clarify here. You said, "Regularly challenge yourself by looking at ideas contrary to your own." This is true only up to a point. I'm reminded of something that somebody else once said, "You can't keep your mind too open or people are apt to throw a lot of garbage into it." I'm certain of quite a few things based on my knowledge of the scriptures;

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


[SUP]1[/SUP] And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
[SUP]12[/SUP] He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
[SUP]13[/SUP] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

I know that I have eternal life through Jesus and that He is the only way to heaven, the only truth, and the only life. I know I am of the truth because I know Jesus.

[SUP]37[/SUP] Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

I am certain of these truths and I'm not going to entertain any ideas that run contrary to these Truths.
I think you may have misunderstood me. I said to challenge yourself (and thus prove or disprove the given challenge), not simply read things just for acceptance of them. If you DO read something contrary to what you have always believed, and you cannot prove to yourself (don't worry about other people) WHY your belief trumps what you are reading... other than to just be able to say, "I won't accept that, I know better!", then I think it is probably past time to determine just WHY you do believe whatever it might be.
 
S

Sophia

Guest
#5
I think you may have misunderstood me. I said to challenge yourself (and thus prove or disprove the given challenge), not simply read things just for acceptance of them. If you DO read something contrary to what you have always believed, and you cannot prove to yourself (don't worry about other people) WHY your belief trumps what you are reading... other than to just be able to say, "I won't accept that, I know better!", then I think it is probably past time to determine just WHY you do believe whatever it might be.
As long as what you are reading is the Bible.

Many people have the ability to make very cunning false arguments. Others may be more intelligent than us, but lack Faith.
Take Mark Twain for example. He was incredibly intelligent, but hated Christianity, and fought against is persistently. Just because I can't defeat all of Mark Twain's arguments does not mean he had a valid argument against Christ.
Faith and Truth go hand in hand... but logic is not always based on truth, but on perception and perspective. Many times, logic and faith can oppose each other, as neither require the other to exist.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#6
As long as what you are reading is the Bible.

Many people have the ability to make very cunning false arguments. Others may be more intelligent than us, but lack Faith.
Take Mark Twain for example. He was incredibly intelligent, but hated Christianity, and fought against is persistently. Just because I can't defeat all of Mark Twain's arguments does not mean he had a valid argument against Christ.
Faith and Truth go hand in hand... but logic is not always based on truth, but on perception and perspective. Many times, logic and faith can oppose each other, as neither require the other to exist.
You have a good point, there.
 
S

Sophia

Guest
#7
You have a good point, there.
And you did too.
There are many (sadly enough, even myself sometimes) who will read a portion of Scriture and disagree with it,
and then go a step further and try to "apologize" for that section of Scripture and force it (distort it) to match what they already believed,
rather than submitting to the Truth, and then try to figure out how it all fits.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
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#8
And you did too.
There are many (sadly enough, even myself sometimes) who will read a portion of Scriture and disagree with it,
and then go a step further and try to "apologize" for that section of Scripture to force it to match what we already believed,
rather than submitting to the Truth, and then trying to figure out how it all fits.
I read things quite often in the Bible that make me go, "Huh?. But I have learned to just keep reading with an asking heart... it soon clears itself up..... sometimes I get led to another part of the Bible that explains it.
 
S

Sophia

Guest
#9
I read things quite often in the Bible that make me go, "Huh?. But I have learned to just keep reading with an asking heart... it soon clears itself up..... sometimes I get led to another part of the Bible that explains it.
I am in a regular state of "Huh?" while reading through Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. Praise God that He does answer our confusion and gives us clarity.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
2,940
113
#10
It reminds me of what Paul said about educated smart alecs who think they know it all:
Yep, there's nothing better than being proud to be stupid!

Except maybe being proud to be humble! LOL
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
764
113
39
Australia
#11
Whenever I start to think I know it all, God always puts something before me that makes me realise how much I don't know. As much as it hurts, i'm glad He does it.
 
B

BradC

Guest
#12
Does any of this lead us to believe that we need to be taught, by humbling ourselves under the mighty hand of God and putting ourselves under a pastor-teacher who has been raised up of God? Isn't there any merit when we learn from others who have been taught the word and doctrine, who have had the word tested and tried through trials as individuals and with other believers in the local assembly and bear much fruit? Experiential knowledge that has been tried is the most valuable knowledge that we can obtain and learn from. Some knowledge we receive might never be tried in this life, but we have the assurance and conviction of the truth of it because of the witness of the Spirit and the affirmation of a fruitful body of believers who live by it.

God has always had those in the church that He reveals an understanding of the scriptures according to (Eph 4). They are not perfect and they are growing but they are meek and lowly in their heart which makes them teachable. They hunger and live by the word before they teach it to others. Wisdom turns into understanding when the word of God is applied in the details of life through the plan of God. Every day we have to put off the old man and put on Christ by faith to keep from living in the energy of the flesh. This is a spiritual discipline so that we can walk and live by the Spirit. If we fail we go to God and receive grace and put on the new man. We build up ourselves in the faith and trust in the promises of God. Yesterday and everything that happened in the last hour is gone forever and put in the past, so we have to live at this very moment by faith and do the same for the next moment that has not arrived yet.

We are certain that the just shall live by faith and that we escape the corruption that is in the world through lust by taking up our cross, putting on the new man and by cleaving to the promises of God which are all yea and amen. When we hear a message or read a portion of scripture that we do not readily understand, we hide it in our heart and commit it to God who is able to keep it for us. Later in life as we walk by faith in the plan of God the Spirit takes what we have hid in our heart and brings it to our remembrance to be applied in the situation giving us understanding. We must mix faith with what the Spirit gives us so that it can benefit the situation and profit us as we grow up in Christ. This is how we get to know Him with certainty just as the disciples did when they walked with Him and looked upon Him. We walk and look upon Him by faith through the word and the Spirit and we see Jesus and we preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified and we know with a certain certainty that His promises are for us and not against us and that nothing shall be able to separate us from the love of God.