Just so heartbreaking

[pickles]

Saddly, the main church is closing down the branch we have enjoyed.
Long story short...
The main church's head pastor decided to allow practicing homosexuals to hold teaching and leadership positions in the church.
Scripture is clear about the requirements for any who hold positions of teaching, leadership and authorty.
The head pastor had already been allowing practicing homosexuals to hold these positions, with out any knowladge of the church body.
Our branch pastor resigned as he could not be in agreement with the direction of the church.
We support Him compleatly.
Saddly, the head pastor decided that since our pastor and church body did not agree, our church branch is being shut down.
We were never trully given any oppertunity to speak to our concernes, only the illusion of such.
How sad, that truth is being lost.

What is the most heartbreaking is not that our church is being shut down, but that the truth in Jesus, is being comprimised, lost, how many will be lost because of this?

So sad that the love of God, is being comprimised as aproval for those who need most to hear the truth.

May we all remain always faithful to the truth and love of Jesus, so that all will know how great and perfect the truth and love of Jesus is.

God bless
pickles

 

[kaylagrl]

Saddly, the main church is closing down the branch we have enjoyed.
Long story short...
The main church's head pastor decided to allow practicing homosexuals to hold teaching and leadership positions in the church.
Scripture is clear about the requirements for any who hold positions of teaching, leadership and authorty.
The head pastor had already been allowing practicing homosexuals to hold these positions, with out any knowladge of the church body.
Our branch pastor resigned as he could not be in agreement with the direction of the church.
We support Him compleatly.
Saddly, the head pastor decided that since our pastor and church body did not agree, our church branch is being shut down.
We were never trully given any oppertunity to speak to our concernes, only the illusion of such.
How sad, that truth is being lost.

What is the most heartbreaking is not that our church is being shut down, but that the truth in Jesus, is being comprimised, lost, how many will be lost because of this?

So sad that the love of God, is being comprimised as aproval for those who need most to hear the truth.

May we all remain always faithful to the truth and love of Jesus, so that all will know how great and perfect the truth and love of Jesus is.

God bless
pickles

Its too bad,this issue has torn many churches apart and will continue to.Sorry you had to go through that situation.

 

[p_rehbein]

Sister, you guys need to find a way/place to continue your church...............worshiping together.....if y'all truly want to, I'm sure you can find a solution...........even if it starts out in the home of the Branch Pastor, or some other home.

It is truly sad to see the worlds invasion of the church.........will pray for you.

 

[oldthennew]

God Bless you dear Pickles,

so much wickedness openly displayed with most
never giving consequences a thought.

what will be exciting though, is being right there to watch
as our Father opens up so many new paths as He goes
about preparing new journeys for those who will follow.
what a blessing to know that He will never fail us, no
matter how many times our fellow man does.

 

[ColinCat]

Yeah I don't like this.

Be a Christian.. That's fine.

Be gay, that's fine.

But you can't be a gay christian.. The two are in direct conflict. Its like wanting to be an empowered Muslim woman, it just can't be done within the belief system.

Nothing wrong with being gay in my eyes. But you have no place in a church.

Nothing wrong with christianity in my eyes.. But you have no place in the gay community.

I'm sorry to hear this has happened.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Yeah I don't like this.

Be a Christian.. That's fine.

Be gay, that's fine.

But you can't be a gay christian.. The two are in direct conflict. Its like wanting to be an empowered Muslim woman, it just can't be done within the belief system.

Actually it can, if the gay Christian realizes he/she is dealing with sin that must be put under Christ's blood before he/she is fit for service. I have no problem at all with a person telling me "I'm a gay Christian."

I believe they are unless/until they show me they aren't, and that will take some doing. Unlike so many who are willing to see sin in the life of a Christian as a sign they are not, or have "lost their salvation" (an impossibility), I will not judge the acts of my proclaiming brothers and sisters in Christ, and I cannot see their hearts, so I cannot know whether they truly are saved. So I won't judge, but I will call sin sin, and expect Christians to allow themselves to be held accountable, which also may take time. Thing is, if God is patient and long-suffering, I have to be also.

Nothing wrong with being gay in my eyes. But you have no place in a church.

Not true, Colin. They are the ones who need to be in the church, along with the adulterers, addicts, drunks, gamblers, liars, thieves, gossips, and every other sinner -- us, that is.

Nothing wrong with christianity in my eyes.. But you have no place in the gay community.

Again, wrong, Colin. We have a very important place in the LGBT community -- to love them as our neighbors, and bring them, in the spirit of that love, the Gospel of Christ.

I'm sorry to hear this has happened.

So am I. The first pastor is wrong, and the second pastor should fight to keep his segment of the congregation under his leadership as a shepherd of God's people.

 

[ColinCat]

Actually it can, if the gay Christian realizes he/she is dealing with sin that must be put under Christ's blood before he/she is fit for service. I have no problem at all with a person telling me "I'm a gay Christian."

I believe they are unless/until they show me they aren't, and that will take some doing. Unlike so many who are willing to see sin in the life of a Christian as a sign they are not, or have "lost their salvation" (an impossibility), I will not judge the acts of my proclaiming brothers and sisters in Christ, and I cannot see their hearts, so I cannot know whether they truly are saved. So I won't judge, but I will call sin sin, and expect Christians to allow themselves to be held accountable, which also may take time. Thing is, if God is patient and long-suffering, I have to be also.

Not true, Colin. They are the ones who need to be in the church, along with the adulterers, addicts, drunks, gamblers, liars, thieves, gossips, and every other sinner -- us, that is.

Again, wrong, Colin. We have a very important place in the LGBT community -- to love them as our neighbors, and bring them, in the spirit of that love, the Gospel of Christ.

So am I. The first pastor is wrong, and the second pastor should fight to keep his segment of the congregation under his leadership as a shepherd of God's people.

Really?

I wasn't being vindictive with my comments but I genuinely believe the two entities should be seperare. If a man wants to be practicing homosexual then he shouldn't want to be part of a belief system that opposes his lifestyle.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Really?

I wasn't being vindictive with my comments but I genuinely believe the two entities should be seperare. If a man wants to be practicing homosexual then he shouldn't want to be part of a belief system that opposes his lifestyle.

There's a difference in "opposing a lifestyle" as you and probably most of the LGBT community would see it, and loving your neighbor regardless of who he/she is and sharing Christ with them. It is the latter I'm talking about, it is the latter Christians are called to do.

We, the church, simply must stop being jerks and bigots, or we're not going to accomplish anything under the Great Commission. That includes sharing the Gospel with everyone, including a self-proclaimed LBGT, or a guy in England named Colin who visits a Christian chat board..

 

[MarcR]

Actually it can, if the gay Christian realizes he/she is dealing with sin that must be put under Christ's blood before he/she is fit for service. I have no problem at all with a person telling me "I'm a gay Christian."

I believe they are unless/until they show me they aren't, and that will take some doing. Unlike so many who are willing to see sin in the life of a Christian as a sign they are not, or have "lost their salvation" (an impossibility), I will not judge the acts of my proclaiming brothers and sisters in Christ, and I cannot see their hearts, so I cannot know whether they truly are saved. So I won't judge, but I will call sin sin, and expect Christians to allow themselves to be held accountable, which also may take time. Thing is, if God is patient and long-suffering, I have to be also.

Not true, Colin. They are the ones who need to be in the church, along with the adulterers, addicts, drunks, gamblers, liars, thieves, gossips, and every other sinner -- us, that is.

Again, wrong, Colin. We have a very important place in the LGBT community -- to love them as our neighbors, and bring them, in the spirit of that love, the Gospel of Christ.

So am I. The first pastor is wrong, and the second pastor should fight to keep his segment of the congregation under his leadership as a shepherd of God's people.

Really?

I wasn't being vindictive with my comments but I genuinely believe the two entities should be seperare. If a man wants to be practicing homosexual then he shouldn't want to be part of a belief system that opposes his lifestyle.

There's a difference in "opposing a lifestyle" as you and probably most of the LGBT community would see it, and loving your neighbor regardless of who he/she is and sharing Christ with them. It is the latter I'm talking about, it is the latter Christians are called to do.

We, the church, simply must stop being jerks and bigots, or we're not going to accomplish anything under the Great Commission. That includes sharing the Gospel with everyone, including a self-proclaimed LBGT, or a guy in England named Colin who visits a Christian chat board..

Homosexuality is unquestionably sin in both the OT and NT.

We are NOT told to catagorize sins and relate to them differently; and homosexuality should not be treated differently than persistent lying , stealing, adultery, drunkenness, or murder. If they are repented of and discontinued they are forgiven and those who formerly practiced them should be received into full fellowship and allowed to lead according to their gifts.

If any one claims to be a believer and openly persists in practicing ANY sin, the Church is told to break fellowship not grant leadership.

A person with a conquered drinking problem may still refer to himself/herself as an alcoholic and should still be allowed to serve in any qualified capacity. Likewise a non-practicing homosexual may still refer to himself as a homosexual; and if indeed not practicing his former sin, should be received as any other redeemed sinner.

 

[oldthennew]

Yeah I don't like this.

Be a Christian.. That's fine.

Be gay, that's fine.

But you can't be a gay christian.. The two are in direct conflict. Its like wanting to be an empowered Muslim woman, it just can't be done within the belief system.

Nothing wrong with being gay in my eyes. But you have no place in a church.

Nothing wrong with christianity in my eyes.. But you have no place in the gay community.

I'm sorry to hear this has happened.

==================================================

even an 'out-sider' to the Faith can see the obvious.
it is written,
'You cannot serve 'two' masters.'

you cannot be the servant of 'sin' and the servant of 'righteousness',
for by what master you are 'over-come', his servant, you are.

there is NO straddling the fence and getting Lost in the 'shades of gray'.

good is good and evil is evil - and it takes courage and discernment of
the scriptures coupled with honest eyes.

 

[WheresEnoch]

All who sin are welcomed in Christ, all who are without Christ are slaves to sin.

However, the church is a place for the Saints. Those who, by the power of the Holy Spirit, are no longer slaves to sin but slaves to love, the Spirit and righteousness.

Unbelievers can come to the church, but those who call themselves "brothers" yet still live continually under the law and walk by the flesh and make a practice of sin should not be allowed in the church. A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

ColinCat is very correct in his thinking and understanding.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

... the church is a place for the Saints.

That's not what Jesus said.

Matthew 9, NASB
10 Then it happened that as Jesus was reclining at the table in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and were dining with Jesus and His disciples.
11 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to His disciples, "Why is your Teacher eating with the tax collectors and sinners?"
12 But when Jesus heard this, He said, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick.
13 "But go and learn what this means: 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."​

Those who, by the power of the Holy Spirit, are no longer slaves to sin but slaves to love, the Spirit and righteousness.

Unbelievers can come to the church, but those who call themselves "brothers" yet still live continually under the law and walk by the flesh and make a practice of sin should not be allowed in the church. A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

I think I'm glad I don't go to your church.

ColinCat is very correct in his thinking and understanding.

Colin is an unbeliever, and you call him "correct" in his thinking and understanding? How interesting!

For the record, no church should turn away the man they judge to be "unrighteous." We call sin sin, we gently correct those who would say they follow Christ but live in obvious sin, and we don't guess about no-so-obvious sin or judge that someone we "think" is sinning should be put out of the church. Paul did that, yes, but it was common knowledge of the sin in question because the sinful couple made no secret of their sin. Unless you have the evidence in hand, you cannot judge, for you will be judged as you judge. Sure you want to invite that into your life?

Matthew 7
1 "Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
2 "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
3 "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
4 "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye?
5 "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."
​

 

[Utah]

There comes a point when an individual who is causing harm within the faith needs to have the integrity to step away in order to stop the bleeding. Unfortunately for Pickles, this was not the case.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I have no problem at all with a person telling me "I'm a gay Christian."

Huh? Your a gay Christian?

 

[pickles]

Yeah I don't like this.

Be a Christian.. That's fine.

Be gay, that's fine.

But you can't be a gay christian.. The two are in direct conflict. Its like wanting to be an empowered Muslim woman, it just can't be done within the belief system.

Nothing wrong with being gay in my eyes. But you have no place in a church.

Nothing wrong with christianity in my eyes.. But you have no place in the gay community.

I'm sorry to hear this has happened.

I agree that one cannot make such a claim and be a christian, as any sin that is destructive cannot be approved.
But I do believe we are called to win souls in Jesus, so the door should always be open to any who seek Him.
But such person wether gay, adulterer, ect.. should be willing to recieive councle and instruction in Jesus.
The main divider was allow such to be in the position of teacher, leader, athority.
I know the scriptures speak to any in such a position as leading a goddly life.
The head pastor said He felt led to allow this in God's love.
The problem is, he has confused love with aproval, and there is great danger in this.
When one considers the danger of letting any, who openly sins against God in a position of athority?
How many might be misled, decieved by looking to those in this position of athority?

Another consideration as well, is the effects of this decision and its effect on other churches in any legal matter taken before the goverment, it comprimises all because of one church's choice against God's truth?


God bless
pickles

 

[pickles]

One thing we all need to be mindful of.
Is when we recieive Jesus. we are called to deny our self, die to flesh.
For when we recieive Jesus, we die to flesh with Him, so by Him, we are born into His Spirit.
No longer flesh but Spirit.
Somehow this truth keeps being lost, in a worldly love of acceptance, aproval.
The message we rejoice in, is salvation in Jesus!
For God's love is not like the world's love.
It is not about condemnation, but freedom from the world, flesh.
If we cannot die to flesh, we cannot live in Jesus, His Spirit.
If we lose sight of this truth in Jesus, we risk losing sight of Jesus.
Obedience is not about condemnation, for Jesus said, I do not come to condemn the world, but to save it!
Jesus also said though, not by my will but by my Father's will, for I do nothing on my own, all comes from the Father above!
Obedience is simply about recieving good direction to the goal, just as one looks to directions when trying to find an unknown destination.
All we are given in the scriptures, are these directions, understood through the Holy Spirit in Jesus Christ is Lord.

God bless
pickles

 

[thespiritoftruth]

Well said pickles I second you.

 

[gb9]

a pastor in that I used to listen to in the Atlanta area did a similar thing. he started talking about how we had to discern what part of the Bible was God speaking, and what part was man speaking, then after a few weeks of this he announced he had divorced his wife and was gay. so I stopped listening to him, and was very upset about this for a while.

 

[mikeuk]

The main divider was allow such to be in the position of teacher, leader, athority.
I know the scriptures speak to any in such a position as leading a goddly life.
The head pastor said He felt led to allow this in God's love.
The problem is, he has confused love with aproval, and there is great danger in this.
God bless
pickles

So sorry for you Pickles.

I would have thought on that issue, almost all the congregation would oppose it. Can you not liaise with other branches to oust that head pastor? I cannot think he has majority support. What church is this by the way? Witholding of tithes by many or most(if you do such things) may be enough to put the church under pressure to listen

............

But on the problem in general. Luther foresaw the problem he created with authority , and by the time he recognised it, he could not put the genie back into the bottle either.

He said towards the end of his life:
“There are as many sects now and beliefs as there are heads. This fellow has nothing to do with baptism. Another one denies the sacraments. A third believes there is another world between this one and the last day. Some teach that Christ is not God. Some say this, some say that. There is no rustic so rude that if he dreams or fancies anything believes it must be the whisper of the Holy Spirit and that he himself must be a prophet.”

A fair comment about your head pastor!

Luther was even more critical of the non denominational one man factions arising from self interpretation.
"In matters of faith, to be sure, each Christian is for himself Pope and Church.” “There will be the greatest confusion. Nobody will allow himself to be led by another man’s doctrine or authority. Everyone will be his own rabbi: hence, the greatest scandals.”
Notice the arguments on this forum!

He concludes wryly:
"If God had not closed my eyes, and if I had foreseen these scandals, I would never have begun to teach the gospel."
"If the world lasts, it will be necessary, on account of the differing interpretations of Scripture which now exist, that to preserve the unity of faith, we should receive the Catholic councils and decrees and fly to them for refuge."

That lack of authority in the light of disputes is why there are so many fractures

But heh! It is not over till it is over. Joining hands with other branches, could have results!

 

[Stephen63]

Pickles, I know a lot of how U feel 'cuz my organization closed the church last year I pastored for 7 years..... sent me a letter that it was closing down & that I needed to meet the board. No negotiations. No questions. No input whatsoever. I definitely feel for you & your people.

This is happening more across the nation than we realize. If you research the Presbyterian Church USA, you'll find they're stealing churches away from their congregations that want to leave due to the homosexual leadership problem. They've spent $12 million in legal fees in 2012 alone because of this.

I would suggest that your branch stay together & go independent..... you deserve better.