The faith is dead without the works according to the faith.

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MikkoAinasoja

Senior Member
Nov 19, 2014
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#1
The faith is dead without the works according to the faith.

Our dear brother James

13.For judgment is without mercy to him that hath showed no mercy: mercy glorieth against judgment. 14. What doth it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but have not works? can that faith save him? 15. If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food, 16. and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17. Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself. (James 2:13-17)
 

MikkoAinasoja

Senior Member
Nov 19, 2014
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#3
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Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
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#4
You just can't ignore the scriptures that tell us that we are saved by grace alone and not by works.

So as not to take anything away from the wonder of God's grace, I have always taken James to mean that if we have a real relationship with Christ by faith, it will motivate our actions towards others. It will show our faith is not dead - it will show that we have a living presence inside of us - the Holy Spirit - Who will inspire us and turn our hearts to those in need.
 

MikkoAinasoja

Senior Member
Nov 19, 2014
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#5
The part where the Bible say's that we can not be saved by our own act's, do not lead us to refuse the good act's according to the faith, but when the Bible say's that not by act's it means that not just by the act's of the jewsh law, so it is about the jewsh law.

In the end we all will receive according to our own act's.

Do not be deceived.
 
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psychomom

Guest
#6
those who are in Christ...whom God has saved...

those people will receive according to the Lord Jesus' 'acts'.

right?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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#7
The part where the Bible say's that we can not be saved by our own act's, do not lead us to refuse the good act's according to the faith, but when the Bible say's that not by act's it means that not just by the act's of the jewsh law, so it is about the jewsh law.

In the end we all will receive according to our own act's.

Do not be deceived.
In the sense that good act is product of Faith. But salvation is by Grace through faith, not work.

Than faith bear fruit in the form of good work in any given time.

If a man accept/have a faith in Jesus and die in the next second before able to help people or any good work other than accept Jesus would you believe he or she go to hell?

If a man said he accept Jesus and his daily activities is rob the bank and killing, and rape. mean he is liar, He not genuinely have a faith in Jesus.

If a man said he able to do good work before have a faith in Jesus he is liar to.


15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.


As a branch can't bear fruit of itself.


Fruit in this sentence is goof work, not bad work.

A good work in the eyes of God is work driven by agape love. A good work toward you enemy.

One day Jesus said.If you do good work to people that love you than what is the different between you as His child and pagan.


A man may able to love and do good work to his son, or his wife, can you in you own strength love the one than bully you or kill you family? Jesus did, He love and pray for His Killer.

And only if He in us and we in Him/abide in Him, than His spirit make us to do this kind of love. It is impossible for Our own strength to do that kind good work for our enemy.

Any way. oftentimes I my self still fail to love my enemy. I have to pray to the Lord to give me strength for this purpose.

while I am typing this, a man that cheat me come to me asking for help. If not because I am writing this subject, certainly I say no.


 

MikkoAinasoja

Senior Member
Nov 19, 2014
683
49
28
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#8
those who are in Christ...whom God has saved...

those people will receive according to the Lord Jesus' 'acts'.

right?
6. he that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked. (1 John 2:6)

If we are in the Lord Jesus, we live like he live, but if do not live like he live, but still say that we are in him, we lie, and the truth is not in us.
 

MikkoAinasoja

Senior Member
Nov 19, 2014
683
49
28
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#9
In the sense that good act is product of Faith. But salvation is by Grace through faith, not work.

Than faith bear fruit in the form of good work in any given time.

If a man accept/have a faith in Jesus and die in the next second before able to help people or any good work other than accept Jesus would you believe he or she go to hell?

If a man said he accept Jesus and his daily activities is rob the bank and killing, and rape. mean he is liar, He not genuinely have a faith in Jesus.

If a man said he able to do good work before have a faith in Jesus he is liar to.


15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.


As a branch can't bear fruit of itself.


Fruit in this sentence is goof work, not bad work.

A good work in the eyes of God is work driven by agape love. A good work toward you enemy.

One day Jesus said.If you do good work to people that love you than what is the different between you as His child and pagan.


A man may able to love and do good work to his son, or his wife, can you in you own strength love the one than bully you or kill you family? Jesus did, He love and pray for His Killer.

And only if He in us and we in Him/abide in Him, than His spirit make us to do this kind of love. It is impossible for Our own strength to do that kind good work for our enemy.

Any way. oftentimes I my self still fail to love my enemy. I have to pray to the Lord to give me strength for this purpose.

while I am typing this, a man that cheat me come to me asking for help. If not because I am writing this subject, certainly I say no.


We need both, the works and the faith to stay in the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#10
Grace, faith and works by faith should be embraced, and not be divided against one another, nor evil spoken of.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#11
Hearing the word produces faith, faith produces love, love produces obedience, obedience produces an active faith unto salvation !!!
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#12
psychomom,

MATTHEW 5:19.
Whosoever thereore shall break one of these least Commandments,
and shall teach men so,
he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven:
but
whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called
great in the Kingdom of heaven.

and this is why this scripture states,

MATTHEW 16:27.
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of His Father with His angels;
and then He shall reward every man according to his works.

we are saved through Jesus Christ from the 'penalty' of our 'past-sins',
through His blood,- this is His free gift, and it reconciles us to God,
'for if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death
of His Son, much more, much greater, we SHALL BE SAVED BY HIS LIFE'
and we are saved by His Life through our 'relationship' to Him as our
(((HIGH PRIEST))).
if we have 'one' sin against us, we are subject to the penalty of death,
but, thank God, He ever lives to make INTERCESSION for us.
and an even 'greater-gift' is the 'gift-of-eternal-life' -
in short, His death reconciles us to God, our living relationship keeps us
in good-standing, because He forgives us our sins upon our heartfelt Repentance,
and our Eternal Position of authority is determined by (every man's works) =
if we produce 'stubble' - we will still be in our Father's Kingdom, but in a
'servant of servants position - but, IF we produce Spiritual Gold, we will
reign forever as Eternal Kings and Priests.....
 
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psychomom

Guest
#13
thank you, oldthenew. :)

i confess, i don't grasp the rewards gig...
i want to obey the Lord Jesus for all He has done for me,
because i'm so grateful.

for now, i shall trust Him to sort the rest out,
and to teach me His Truth. ♥
 
D

Delivery

Guest
#14
The faith is dead without the works according to the faith.

Our dear brother James

13.For judgment is without mercy to him that hath showed no mercy: mercy glorieth against judgment. 14. What doth it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but have not works? can that faith save him? 15. If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food, 16. and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17. Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself. (James 2:13-17)
First of all, too many people take these verses in James out of context and apply them in a way that James, himself, never meant them to be applied. Let's take a closer look and we'll see that the subject of these verses is not even Faith by Grace for Salvation.

For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.(This verse is the end of the previous point that James was making which starts in verse 10. It has nothing to do with the next verses about Faith and works. Judgment and mercy are opposites. Judgment refers to being punished for your sins and disobedience's. Mercy refers to being forgiven for them. So James was saying that if you have a judgmental, unforgiving attitude towards people in their sins, disobediences, mistakes, etc. then you will also be judged for yours. This goes along with what Jesus said, "[SUP]15[/SUP] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Mercy rejoicing against judgment means that it's better and more joyful to be forgiven for our sins than punished for them because we're all sinners and in need of forgiveness. And enter not into judgment with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified. (Psalm 143:2) And, as I said, this is the end of the last point James was making [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]referring[/FONT] to people who thought they were righteously obeying the law and who criticized, and judged those who they thought weren't as obedient.[SUP]10[/SUP] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[SUP]11[/SUP] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
[SUP]12[/SUP] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Now to go to the next point James makes about Faith and works.


What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[SUP]15[/SUP] If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[SUP]16[/SUP] And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[SUP]17[/SUP] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

As you can see, these verses are not specifically talking about Salvation but are talking about have Faith in Prayer for things you pray for. The example James gave clearly shows that. If you're walking down the street and you see a blind beggar on the street corner, and you have a few dollars in your pocket, but all you do is say a prayer for them and say that you have Faith and that you're trusting the Lord to help them then that's the kind of dead faith it's talking about here. Cause maybe you are the one the Lord wants to use to help that blind person. And this applies to anything you're praying for. Sometimes you have to take action and put feet to your prayers in order for the Lord to answer them and so the Lord can accomplish His will through you. It's not about having Faith plus works to earn your Salvation. By the way, if a saved Christian does pass by and simply pray for somebody in need without actually helping them, he will have made a mistake and succumbed to the temptation to be selfish, and he will lose a blessing of God for it, but he won't lose his Salvation over it.
 
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Delivery

Guest
#15
Hearing the word produces faith, faith produces love, love produces obedience, obedience produces an active faith unto salvation !!!
Don't put the cart before the horse. The first part is right, hearing the word produces Faith. But then this faith produces Salvation, as it causes us to believe in and receive Jesus. Then our Salvation produces love because we want to love Him the way He loved us in dying for us and forgiving our sins:[SUP]19[/SUP] We love him, because he first loved us. Then because we love Him it causes us to want to obey Him and do good works and love others.

See? Our Salvation comes first, then our Love and obedience. By saying our Salvation is produced by our active love and obedience through faith you're promoting the false doctrine that we earn our Salvation by having good works first. You can't have good works and obedience until you get saved first. You're also saying that He loves and therefore gives us Salvation because we loved Him first. This is just the opposite of what John said in his epistle.
 
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Delivery

Guest
#16
Good works do not produce Salvation. Salvation produces good works.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#17
We need both, the works and the faith to stay in the Lord Jesus Christ.
but you can bear good work by yourself that is what Jesus said.


Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

How about my question:

If a man accept Jesus and die in the next second before bear good work is he save?
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,703
1,715
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#18
The faith is dead without the works according to the faith.

Our dear brother James

13.For judgment is without mercy to him that hath showed no mercy: mercy glorieth against judgment. 14. What doth it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but have not works? can that faith save him? 15. If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food, 16. and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17. Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself. (James 2:13-17)
Hello MikkoAinasoja
If you were in a building doing some paper work or something and someone came running into your office and said the building is on fire.If you really believed them you would take action and move.

If you really believed them you would not just sit there you would do something

You see how faith without work is dead.
 

MikkoAinasoja

Senior Member
Nov 19, 2014
683
49
28
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#19
Hello MikkoAinasoja
If you were in a building doing some paper work or something and someone came running into your office and said the building is on fire.If you really believed them you would take action and move.

If you really believed them you would not just sit there you would do something

You see how faith without work is dead.
Yes, something like that. If you really believe you will do, but if you do not believe, you most likely not do.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#20
Yes, something like that. If you really believe you will do, but if you do not believe, you most likely not do.

Yup, doing is just a evident of believe/faith. not the requirement of salvation.


If you have a faith, in any given time, you will bear fruit/good work.

But if you have a faith and die in the next second, other can see you fruit, only God see your heart and take you to heaven, because seen fruit not the requirement faith in Jesus is.