No Longer to Obey Commandments

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
19
0
YES, HE IS. Most certainly, none of us who think we are, are.
perhaps, from some perspectives. and considering that you're posting in english, on a forum that's

almost all in english, that doesn't even come close to true Hebrew meanings, lives, context, and truth.

that said, even in english, like the RSV Bible ---
look up how many people yahweh calls righteous. OT and NT.

hopefully that can be understood from HIM. what HE SAYS.

even so. those who cannot will turn this around in their posts, and won't even realize it.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
No Longer to Obey


Kind of a strange statement. Not obeying the commandments, means breaking them. So if we are no longer to keep them, then
I guess that means we should break them, correct?
Nope. . .not correct.

Your conclusion does not follow from your premise.

And they are all kept in keeping Jesus' two (Mt 22:37-40).

You can't truly keep Jesus' two without keeping all of them also.

It's not complicated.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
p_rehbein
,

Jesus' statement, that the 2 laws in question fulfill the Law the Prophets, raises a question that if answered will enable us to better answer your question.
Wasn't "the Law and the Prophets" one of the common names for the entire OT Scriptures,
as were "the Law" and "the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms"?

Should the New Testament, in its entirety be regarded as prophetic. I believe it should.
I don't understand what you mean by that.

Prophecy is foretelling.

How is Ro 14:1-4, for example, foretelling?

Admittedly, when Jesus made that statement, the NT was not yet written;
Do you think he was referring to the coming NT writings, or was he using a common name for the entire OT?

but when it was accepted as Cannon, was it not also accepted as prophetic

I'm not trying to short circuit your thread; but I honestly consider the answer to my question pivotal to answering yours.
 
K

keeth

Guest
perhaps, from some perspectives. and considering that you're posting in english, on a forum that's

almost all in english, that doesn't even come close to true Hebrew meanings, lives, context, and truth.

that said, even in english, like the RSV Bible ---
look up how many people yahweh calls righteous. OT and NT.

hopefully that can be understood from HIM. what HE SAYS.

even so. those who cannot will turn this around in their posts, and won't even realize it.
If God calls someone righteous, there can be no doubt that they are. If someone declares them-self righteous, they most certainly and probably are not. Though we are called to perfection, Godly perfection itself requires a humility that would never boast of or claim such for or of itself.
 
K

keeth

Guest
Nope. . .not correct.

Your conclusion does not follow from your premise.

And they are all kept in keeping Jesus' two (Mt 22:37-40).

You can't truly keep Jesus' two without keeping all of them also.

It's not complicated.
So why are you complicating it? If we no longer obey the commandments, then we are not keeping them. If all are kept in Jesus' two, then all who keep those two are obeying them. It's not complicated. Either keeping the two is the same as keeping them, or it is not. It cannot be keeping them, and not obeying them at the same time.
 
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
19
0
If God calls someone righteous, there can be no doubt that they are. If someone declares them-self righteous, they most certainly and probably are not. Though we are called to perfection, Godly perfection itself requires a humility that would never boast of or claim such for or of itself.
good for a start. now in the next several weeks go and read the NT epistles (and genesis through deuteronomy),

and see who God's Word calls righteous, and who God's Word calls sons of the devil, (a REVELATION)

and what God's Word DIRECTLY says God's People DO, (which you haven't seen on this site yet; so pray to see it

in God's Word as He permits you to)....


and likewise the book of Revelation. and all in all, ask God to show you His Word about the difference in people that He says

is written to show you the difference in people just as it is written plain and simple.....
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
Exactly! The Law defines sin. It tells us what is right and wrong. It does not cleanse us from sin, that is Christ's sacrifice...

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Please note, there is nothing about Law concerning our justification, reconciliation or salvation here. The Law tells us what to do and what not to do. It also shows us when we need to go to God for forgiveness and what to ask forgiveness for.

We should be going to God daily (and three times a day at that - Psa 55:16-17) and asking forgiveness for our shortcomings...

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye:...
Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
hi John, glad to find you again on a thread similar to the one that got closed...

I think we both agreed that we should do what God says... whether we can figure out why he said it (and we probably can't) doesn't really matter...

so, does God tell Christians today to not cut the edges of their beard and put on tassels?

(everyone welcome to respond)
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
Wasn't "the Law and the Prophets" one of the common names for the entire OT Scriptures,
as were "the Law" and "the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms"?


I don't understand what you mean by that.

Prophecy is foretelling.

How is Ro 14:1-4, for example, foretelling?


Do you think he was referring to the coming NT writings, or was he using a common name for the entire OT?
To clarify:

Prophesy is forthtelling or proclaiming God's word; and is not necessarily predictive

From the perspective of the Jewish Cannon The Old Testament is called the T'nach.
T Torah na Naviim Prophets ch chatuvim writings or scrolls.

Torah: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy
Naviim: Samuel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the 12 minor prophets.

Chatuvim: everything else.


My point is that if the T'nach is the entire body of cannon then we who believe that the NT is included should consider where it fits; because if we acknowledge it to be prophetic then it is included in Jesus' statement regarding the 2 laws.
 
K

keeth

Guest
good for a start. now in the next several weeks go and read the NT epistles (and genesis through deuteronomy),

and see who God's Word calls righteous, and who God's Word calls sons of the devil, (a REVELATION)

and what God's Word DIRECTLY says God's People DO, (which you haven't seen on this site yet; so pray to see it

in God's Word as He permits you to)....


and likewise the book of Revelation. and all in all, ask God to show you His Word about the difference in people that He says

is written to show you the difference in people just as it is written plain and simple.....
I've read them all many times over, and will continue to do so daily. I have no problem with God calling anyone righteous, it is those who call themselves righteous that I question.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
To clarify:

Prophesy is forthtelling or proclaiming God's word; and is not necessarily predictive

From the perspective of the Jewish Cannon The Old Testament is called the T'nach.
T Torah na Naviim Prophets ch chatuvim writings or scrolls.

Torah: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy
Naviim: Samuel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the 12 minor prophets.

Chatuvim: everything else.


My point is that if the T'nach is the entire body of cannon then we who believe that the NT is included should consider where it fits; because if we acknowledge it to be prophetic then it is included in Jesus' statement regarding the 2 laws.


I consider preaching to be prophetic; but not at the level of cannon. Preaching that is not true to God's word is false prophesy.
 
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
19
0
good, I didn't remember any of the past posts about this -- just the general posts by others who are not righteous and who think and post that no one is righteous and that no one can do what is right...... re post 249 et al

so who is righteous do you think ? (anybody?) - and which group are you in ? the righteous as yahweh calls righteous,
or the unrighteous as yahweh calls it ?

1 John 3:6-8Revised Standard Version (RSV)


[SUP]6 [/SUP]No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him. [SUP]7[/SUP]Little children, let no one deceive you. He who does right is righteous, as he is righteous. [SUP]8 [/SUP]He who commits sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.


================
================
================
Galatians 3:11
Now it is evident that no man is justified before God by the law; for “He who through faith is righteous shall live”;
================
================
================
Ezekiel 18:4-9Revised Standard Version (RSV)
4 Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins shall die.
5 “If a man is righteous and does what is lawful and right— 6 if he does not eat upon the mountains or lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, does not defile his neighbor’s wife or approach a woman in her time of impurity, 7 does not oppress any one, but restores to the debtor his pledge, commits no robbery, gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with a garment, 8 does not lend at interest or take any increase, withholds his hand from iniquity, executes true justice between man and man, 9 walks in my statutes, and is careful to observe my ordinances[a]—he is righteous, he shall surely live, says the Lord God.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
Elin said:
Wasn't "the Law and the Prophets" one of the common names for the entire OT Scriptures,
as were "the Law" and "the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms"?

Prophecy is foretelling.

How is Ro 14:1-4, for example, foretelling?

Do you think he was referring to the coming NT writings, or was
he using a common name for the entire OT?
To clarify:

Prophesy is forthtelling or proclaiming God's word; and is not necessarily predictive
Then all Scripture is prophecy, as all Scripture is God-breathed.

But was Jesus talking about NT prophecy in the phrase, "the Law and the Prophets"?

Wasn't that a phrase for the OT?

In the NT are given instructions which cover life in a Gentile world--e.g., obedience to the Gentile governing authorities--which is not found in the OT, is it?

Would that command be obeyed in obeying Jesus' two commandments?
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
I consider preaching to be prophetic; but not at the level of cannon. Preaching that is not true to God's word is false prophesy.
Yes, I agree. . .teachers are the prophets of the NT.
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
GAL.3"8.

And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
Then all Scripture is prophecy, as all Scripture is God-breathed.

But was Jesus talking about NT prophecy in the phrase, "the Law and the Prophets"?

Wasn't that a phrase for the OT?

In the NT are given instructions which cover life in a Gentile world--e.g., obedience to the Gentile governing authorities--which is not found in the OT, is it?

Would that command be obeyed in obeying Jesus' two commandments?
Elin,

Certainly all Scripture is inspired! My post was focused on the Jewish understanding of T'nach, which was firmly in place at the time of Christ. If Jesus' understanding of the Law (Torah) and the Prophets (Naviim) was according to the Jewish concept of T'nach (the entire Cannon); then, when we include the NT within that concept of cannon: where does the NT fit?

From the perspective of the Jewish Cannon The Old Testament is called the T'nach.
T Torah na Naviim Prophets ch chatuvim writings or scrolls.

Torah: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy
Naviim: Samuel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the 12 minor prophets.

Chatuvim: everything else.
 
Last edited:

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
Elin,

In my own thinking I no longer use the organizational scheme of T'nach since it suggests 3 descending levels of authority.

However in answer to p_rehbein's question, I thought it might be helpful to consider the historical context of Jesus' statement regarding the two laws in question.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
p_rehbein,

I'm wondering when or if you are intending to share with us what you had in mind with all this.

I would also like you to answer the questiom I posed.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
p_rehbein,

I'm wondering when or if you are intending to share with us what you had in mind with all this.

I would also like you to answer the questiom I posed.
 
Mar 8, 2015
62
0
0
Yes but if you violate one of the ten and claim to be obeying the two, are you really obeying the two Great Commandments?
the problem here is ...some are looking for escape routes to be justified in sinful acts....scripture says we should follow the Spirit...scripture says the Spirit will lead us into all truth....so it is obvious one must obey the Spirit to be in the right with God...which command does the Spirit lead you to disobey?????
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
Then all Scripture is prophecy, as all Scripture is God-breathed.



In the NT are given instructions which cover life in a Gentile world--e.g., obedience to the Gentile governing authorities--which is not found in the OT, is it?
sure it is (the Gentile governing authorities)

yes in danial , God speaks to the Gentile governing authorities,

he told them to look after the poor and needy,


also a gentile could join the congration(church)Isreal if they followed Gods ways.


alas that is why america is going down,

instead of conforming to U.S. traditions, they bring there own traditions ,

and we ask how can we follow the way they do it, not the way we should.