Do the dead sleep or ascend or descend?
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I think Paul makes it clear that once we shed this fleshly coil, we are in heaven with Christ.
I'm pretty sure if we are instantly ushered upwards, the unrighteous condemned are just as quickly sent downward.
2 Corinthians 5, NASB
6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord -
7 for we walk by faith, not by sight -
8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord -
7 for we walk by faith, not by sight -
8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
I'm pretty sure if we are instantly ushered upwards, the unrighteous condemned are just as quickly sent downward.
When someone dies, they are no longer bound by the constraints of the dimension of Time on earth. As a spiritual entity we as that Spirit may well just be transported to the finish line so to speak, so although it maybe 1000 years until Christs return when a person dies, the spirit does not have to wait 1000 years, but if it does, then well it will be "asleep".
A true question or two....
So if the soul is immortal and goes to heaven or hell upon death. Does that make God a liar? When He told Adam and Eve the day they ate the fruit from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil that they would die?
What does the Bible verse mean that says this mortal must put on immortality if we already have immortal souls?
So if the soul is immortal and goes to heaven or hell upon death. Does that make God a liar? When He told Adam and Eve the day they ate the fruit from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil that they would die?
What does the Bible verse mean that says this mortal must put on immortality if we already have immortal souls?
S
I agree that the dead in Christ, including the OT Saints, go upward,
but disagree with the "downward" motion, to the extent that they will go a place of "awaiting Judgement", not Judgement itself. I'm sure it will not be even as comfortable or restful as a prison cell on earth.
I also hold that the Marriage Supper of the Lamb is an event after the Tribulation is over, and occurring on earth rather than in Heaven... and I have no proof of that... so my opinion on all this is merely opinion.
but disagree with the "downward" motion, to the extent that they will go a place of "awaiting Judgement", not Judgement itself. I'm sure it will not be even as comfortable or restful as a prison cell on earth.
I also hold that the Marriage Supper of the Lamb is an event after the Tribulation is over, and occurring on earth rather than in Heaven... and I have no proof of that... so my opinion on all this is merely opinion.
Is that what Paul is saying?
Lets examine the context to see,
2Co 5:1 For we know that if the earthly house of our tabernacle be dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens.
Paul uses the tabernacle to represent our earthly house/body which will be dissolved/mortal. but we have a building form God a house not made with hands, eternal/immortal, in the heavens.
why is Paul saying this?
The context from the prior chapter will help:
2Co 4:16 Wherefore we faint not; but though our outward man is decaying, yet our inward man is renewed day by day.
2Co 4:17 For our light affliction, which is for the moment, worketh for us more and more exceedingly an eternal weight of glory;
2Co 4:18 while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Our outward man/tabernacle/body is decaying it is mortal but we have faith in the things that are eternal. What is this in relation to? when will this be?
2Co 4:14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.
So Paul faints not because of the Grace God gives and the promise that this corrupt outward mortal man will be raised to eternal life just as Jesus was.
So again Paul says:
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
We want that clothing that is from heaven. what clothing?
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
mortality might put on life or immortality in other words.
Remember Paul has already connected the Resurrection with this in chapter 4. but lets make it clear before we go on in the chapter:
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
This all takes place at the last trump at the coming of Christ. when our mortal bodies are clothed in immortality changed int eh twinkling of an eye.
What does Paul mean we shall not all sleep and the last trump?
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
So the last Trump is at the second coming of Jesus and we shall not all sleep but some will still be alive and remain. Those who sleep are resurrected at this time.
So lets go back to the texts in question:
2Co 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
So through the earnestness of the Spirit they walk by faith not by sight, in this earthly body and are absent from the Lord. because they are here on earth and the judgment has not yet come.
but:
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
They are willing or want to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. Contextually we have seen this happens at the resurrection not instantly. Paul does not say or even infer that this is instantaneous at all. He simply says he would like to be out of this mortal body and to be present with the Lord. He does not even say that one equals the other but rather he wants to with the Lord.
now notice carefully what he says next:
2Co 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
Notice that he says, "present or absent" we may be accepted of him. If being absent means He is already with the Lord then how is it that the absent still hopes to be accepted of him? Paul is simply saying that they labour in life by faith in this mortal body. and the works that they do will follow them even in death/absent.
As it is written:
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Heb_9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
blessings.
Lets examine the context to see,
2Co 5:1 For we know that if the earthly house of our tabernacle be dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens.
Paul uses the tabernacle to represent our earthly house/body which will be dissolved/mortal. but we have a building form God a house not made with hands, eternal/immortal, in the heavens.
why is Paul saying this?
The context from the prior chapter will help:
2Co 4:16 Wherefore we faint not; but though our outward man is decaying, yet our inward man is renewed day by day.
2Co 4:17 For our light affliction, which is for the moment, worketh for us more and more exceedingly an eternal weight of glory;
2Co 4:18 while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Our outward man/tabernacle/body is decaying it is mortal but we have faith in the things that are eternal. What is this in relation to? when will this be?
2Co 4:14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.
So Paul faints not because of the Grace God gives and the promise that this corrupt outward mortal man will be raised to eternal life just as Jesus was.
So again Paul says:
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
We want that clothing that is from heaven. what clothing?
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
mortality might put on life or immortality in other words.
Remember Paul has already connected the Resurrection with this in chapter 4. but lets make it clear before we go on in the chapter:
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
This all takes place at the last trump at the coming of Christ. when our mortal bodies are clothed in immortality changed int eh twinkling of an eye.
What does Paul mean we shall not all sleep and the last trump?
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
So the last Trump is at the second coming of Jesus and we shall not all sleep but some will still be alive and remain. Those who sleep are resurrected at this time.
So lets go back to the texts in question:
2Co 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
So through the earnestness of the Spirit they walk by faith not by sight, in this earthly body and are absent from the Lord. because they are here on earth and the judgment has not yet come.
but:
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
They are willing or want to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. Contextually we have seen this happens at the resurrection not instantly. Paul does not say or even infer that this is instantaneous at all. He simply says he would like to be out of this mortal body and to be present with the Lord. He does not even say that one equals the other but rather he wants to with the Lord.
now notice carefully what he says next:
2Co 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
Notice that he says, "present or absent" we may be accepted of him. If being absent means He is already with the Lord then how is it that the absent still hopes to be accepted of him? Paul is simply saying that they labour in life by faith in this mortal body. and the works that they do will follow them even in death/absent.
As it is written:
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Heb_9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
blessings.
The departed, sleep is the phrase most used in the bible, until the resurrection of the dead on the last day. There are many biblical references to the fact, those termed ''asleep'' do have a consciousness though in that sleep. There is only one judgement day, when all will be judged, not individual judgement days when each person dies
Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. [SUP]14[/SUP]For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. [SUP]15 [/SUP]According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.[SUP]17 [/SUP]After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 1Thes4:13-17
One can make a Scriptural case for both; so the answer is yes.
I believe that when we die, time stops for us and we immediately enter eternity. From the perspective of eternity, the time between death and rapture is so brief as to seem instantaneous. For those of us still living in time; the elapsed time is far more evident; so we need a name for the interim and call it sleep. It is a matter of perspective.
I believe that when we die, time stops for us and we immediately enter eternity. From the perspective of eternity, the time between death and rapture is so brief as to seem instantaneous. For those of us still living in time; the elapsed time is far more evident; so we need a name for the interim and call it sleep. It is a matter of perspective.
E
This is a very good topic. From my understanding of the scriptures the spirit goes back to GOD, our soul is held in a place and our flesh turns back to dust. Now I believe the souls that are GOD's people are under the Altar and those who are not go to hell and on Judgement Day those under the Altar have life everlasting and those who are not are sent into the Lake of Fire. There is a gulf between GOD's people and those who are not. I do not believe the souls are kept together in one place.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Revelation 6:9-11 Luke 16:22-23
Blessings!!!!!!!
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Revelation 6:9-11 Luke 16:22-23
Blessings!!!!!!!