Do you think God discplines us because of our sin while we are alive on earth?

[shad]

Fair enough. There does appear to be a discrepancy between the KJV and the NIV. I have reviewed the texts contained in 3 versions in addition to the Hebrew text, and the NIV seems to ascribe these acts to God, as you can research for yourself. I am open to correction, and I prefer understanding over debate. Because the KJV is more accurate I believe you are correct. If this is one brother to another pointing out an error, thank you. If this is an individual lying in wait to attempt to bully or dominate within a thread, then that is what I initially expected. You've encouraged me to repent, I wonder if you have taken your own advice.

In a post called "Gifts of the Spirit', I shared a story about a time when I prayed for my son, who had struggled with asthma attacks so severe that he was often rushed to the emergency room. I posted the fact that I'd prayed for my son (2yrs old at the time), and that he'd been healed, and in the manner I"ve come to expect from you, you all but accused me of lying. I believe your exact words were ...

Originally Posted by shad
Is this a prayer of faith, according to James 5 that involves the elders of the church to heal the sick, or have you done it yourself? If so, then the one who was healed has a testimony. Let him speak on his own behalf with one other witness. If 'songster' agrees 100%, has he done it as well?Let the one who was healed speak of it in the same manner. One of the (7) things the Lord hates is a false witness / Prov 6:19. Every healing recorded in the scriptures had a witness or a number of them. Let your testimony be established by (2) witnesses which could include the one healed as one witness but the other should be a neutral party.

This was your response to a testimony I gave regarding the healing of my son. Apparently , because we did not go to the elders of the church or follow a rule of having 2 or more witnesses to the healing, you were not satisfied, which would have been fine, except you were not content to be silent on the matter, but proceeded to express your doubt, disbelief, and near accusation, by posting the above rhetoric, and you have the audacity to preach about Grace in other posts. Now I encourage you to Repent!

You could at least post the thread and the date associated with the original conversation that we were a part, so that others could read for themselves and come to their own conclusions. Try that, it might help.

 

[shad]

You could at least post the thread and the date associated with the original conversation that we were a part, so that others could read for themselves and come to their own conclusions. Try that, it might help.

Let me have the honor.

Here is the link to the theard that you are referring to. Here are the numbers of the actual posts; #22, #40, #48, #50. Those that bother to read it and make comment will be my judge.

http://www.christianchat.com/showthread.php?t=9252&page=2

 

[songster]

Let me have the honor.

Here is the link to the theard that you are referring to. Here are the numbers of the actual posts; #22, #40, #48, #50. Those that bother to read it and make comment will be my judge.

http://www.christianchat.com/showthread.php?t=9252&page=2

You have called me a liar, regarding the healing of my son, and now you defend your sin. I would love to say that I am surprised, but, unfortunately I am reminded that you are consistent. I had hoped to appeal to you alone on this matter, but I see that your Pride has chosen to answer for you. Perhaps it is for lack of moderators that you are able to continue.

 

[imoss]

awww you guys. I think the world of both of you & truly hope that this doesn't get worse. I will be reading the scriptures giving in here (already started). God bless you both as you are both wonderful Christian men & I think this comes from misunderstanding.

 

[MyBagsRPacked]

How many times were the Israelites punished for their disobedience or unbelief? Was Moses not punished by being kept from entering the promised land? Can God, who is never-changing, be any different today?

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!!!

 

[charisenexcelcis]

did anyone say therre are spiritual consequences and temporal consequences

when you confess your sin only the spiritual consequences are taken care of

I agree. Sometimes God is gracious in mitigating the temporal consequences.

 

[MahogonySnail]

I agree. Sometimes God is gracious in mitigating the temporal consequences.

Exactly, like killing David's bastard child as an infant, so that Bathsheba didn't have to get a full term abortion.

 

[OreoSoleil]

Exactly, like killing David's bastard child as an infant, so that Bathsheba didn't have to get a full term abortion.

wow --- i don't think that was the purpose of the death. Goodness. God was proving a point to David.

 

[MahogonySnail]

wow --- i don't think that was the purpose of the death. Goodness. God was proving a point to David.

How much have you thought about it? God killed an innocent baby to punish David's sin? A little harsh? Maybe...but still... if Bathsheba miscarried or had an abortion..it would have saved a lot of trouble, perhaps a little easier on the child too. But, God did say an eye for an eye, and blood for blood... I believe, the baby was a blood payment for who David murdered. A type of sacrificial lamb.

 

[OreoSoleil]

God showed David that He was in full control. I'm carrying a child out of marriage -- I relate to David quite a bit. the wages of sin is death for us --not others. My children don't suffer because of my sin , but because mankind sins. David prayed fervently for that baby to live -- that was his punishment -- the grief of knowing his choices have affected the lives of others. My choices are affecting the life of the child I am carrying -- the grief and guilt is what the punishment is. That's what God saves us from --that is what jesus died to help us cope with. If he just killed everyone --we wouldn't be ready for heaven, because he never dealt with our sin.

I am passionate about this --if my child dies or i die it isn't because of one or many sins of mine. But because God wills it.

 

[MahogonySnail]

God wills it without any reason? Could be. Perhaps God knows the person will grow up to be another hitler or something. .but then again if that were true..why didn't God stop the first hitler being born?

I am passionate about this --if my child dies or i die it isn't because of one or many sins of mine.

But that's basically the moral of the story of David and Bathsheba. The child died because of David's sins, to teach David a lesson? perhaps,

Note that God allowed David to continue his relationship with Bathsheba..that's how Solomon was born . But Solomon fell away from God...and there were really few just kings after that...generational curse? perhaps.

But I'm 100% positive it's not God's will that any child dies..you aren't a king of Israel..so the consesquences aren't as severe. God LOVES you and now we are under the dispensation of grace knowing that God does not hold or count our sins towards us, remembers them no more, and no longer punishes us as we deserve for our sins. But, by considering David, we can appraciate Jesus even more fully, that if not for Jesus..your child may well have been killed like David's was, had you lived before Christ.

Psa 103:10 He does not punish us as we deserve or repay us according to our sins and wrongs.
Psa 103:11 As high as the sky is above the earth, so great is his love for those who honor him.
Psa 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far does he remove our sins from us.
Psa 103:13 As a father is kind to his children, so the LORD is kind to those who honor him.
Psa 103:14 He knows what we are made of; he remembers that we are dust.

But God has not just became more friendly and loving since Christ...no, God has always been like that:

Joe 2:13 Let your broken heart show your sorrow; tearing your clothes is not enough." Come back to the LORD your God. He is kind and full of mercy; he is patient and keeps his promise; he is always ready to forgive and not punish.

 

[OreoSoleil]

You have great points -- and all extrememly valid. I just wanted to make clear that nothing we do is ever good enough or bad enough. I sinned as did David. And yes -- God punishes us -- but what's encouraging is He has a tender heart. And he punishes us because he loves us -- sort of interesting a God who brings about pain to help us truly see him. We just need to be careful when something we consider not fair happens -- it isn't always because we sinned -- if that was the case there would be no joy. God allows babies to die -- but as he says in Romans 8 -- He brings good from all things.

that was really my point. God punishes those he loves and through our suffering we learn obedience. We become closer to God.

 

[jesus_be4_religion]

Exactly, like killing David's bastard child as an infant, so that Bathsheba didn't have to get a full term abortion.

This is another time I point out that God is not a destroyer. Satan is and there was clearly sin in the picture that would cause God not to be able to protect David and his family.