not under the law Galatians 5.

[gotime]

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Notice that the one who is led of the Spirit is not under the law.

Now many would be quick to say amen. but what does it mean to be led by the spirit?

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

So those who are led/walk in the Spirit do not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

So what then is fulfilling the lust of the flesh?

Gal 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.


Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

The works now notice this the "works" of the flesh fulfill the lust of the flesh. these works are sin, so if you are doing these things then you are fulfilling the lust of the flesh and if you fulfill the lust of the flesh you are not walking in the Spirit which means you are under the law.

So clearly those who sin are under the law.



and no you can not do both as it is clearly written:

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Sound familiar? Romans 7. so these are contrary to one another you can't have both either one or the other.

 

[Least]

Good post Gotme! I was just going over some of these passages again this morning. I was happy to see this post.

Galatians 5 Also contrasts the works of the flesh with the fruit of the spirit. The next verses that directly follow the examples of the works of the flesh, (and the things listed about the flesh are not limited only to the things listed there, it also says, "and such like."

Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Then the passage is followed with:

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Galatians 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

If the fruit of the spirit, and the evidence of that is in our actions, then there wouldn't be anything that would bring judgement. But if the works of the flesh are what is ruling a person, well...

This is part of examining ourselves, and working out our salvation with fear and trembling, even judging our own actions, if everything that we do and say is pleasing to God. (And God's word gives us examples throughout or what is pleasing and what is unacceptable in His sight.) In fact, Jesus said that we would be judged by the things that are written.

John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

And:

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Romans ch. 2, goes right along with Galatians ch. 5. I also see some connections to this in Revelation ch. 20.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

1 Corinthians 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

 

[gotime]

My heart was gladdened by your post, not only the content but this:

" I was just going over some of these passages again this morning."

I hear so many people using the term "under the law" in ways that Paul dose not. Or they use it in a way he does for example Galatians chapter 4 where they were in effect going under law by denying the Grace by which they were saved.

But neglect to realize Paul's other uses of the term. namely those who sin.

 

[haz]

Hi gotime,

You misunderstand Gal 5.

Scripture is spiritually discerned. 1Cor 2:14.

Those in Gal 5 who are adulterers, drunkards, unclean, etc are the legalists. They are unclean in that they reject Christ's sacrifice and instead pursue righteousness by works of the law. They are spiritual drunkards who are spiritually drunk with the spiritual wine of fornication with the harlot (Rev 17:1,2), Hagar, who is symbolic for righteousness by works of the law (Gal 4:24).

Thus we see Gal 5 those who walk according to the flesh are the legalists.

Now we all know that whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rm 3:19.
Legalists are under the law determining righteousness by works of it. Thus we see that its the legalists who sin and are under the law.

 

[gotime]

Hi gotime,

You misunderstand Gal 5.

Scripture is spiritually discerned. 1Cor 2:14.

Those in Gal 5 who are adulterers, drunkards, unclean, etc are the legalists. They are unclean in that they reject Christ's sacrifice and instead pursue righteousness by works of the law. They are spiritual drunkards who are spiritually drunk with the spiritual wine of fornication with the harlot (Rev 17:1,2), Hagar, who is symbolic for righteousness by works of the law (Gal 4:24).

Thus we see Gal 5 those who walk according to the flesh are the legalists.

Now we all know that whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rm 3:19.
Legalists are under the law determining righteousness by works of it. Thus we see that its the legalists who sin and are under the law.

Legalists are included no doubt but its not just legalists its anyone who does those things legalists or not.

It is all who walk according to the flesh no matter wether they are a legalist or not.

Romans 3:19 is about everyone not just legalists but all have sinned. When you try to say its just about legalists you shorten the true meaning.

If you do any of the things that are works of the flesh then you are under the law.

 

[haz]

Legalists are included no doubt but its not just legalists its anyone who does those things legalists or not.

It is all who walk according to the flesh no matter wether they are a legalist or not.

Romans 3:19 is about everyone not just legalists but all have sinned. When you try to say its just about legalists you shorten the true meaning.

If you do any of the things that are works of the flesh then you are under the law.

Considering that for Christians our body is already dead (by faith, crucified with Christ, Rom 6:6) because of sin, Rom 8:10, then its clear that believers do not walk according to the flesh.

And who does walk according to the flesh?
It's those preaching the law. The law is not of faith (Gal 3:12) and yet we see some who profess "Lord, Lord" (Matt 7:21), whilst preaching works of the law. Such people reject the will of God, which is that we believe on Jesus, John 6:40.

Believing on Jesus is how we see whether one is walking in the Spirit. That thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" was in the Spirit, and that without any deeds of the law.

 

[john832]

Considering that for Christians our body is already dead (by faith, crucified with Christ, Rom 6:6) because of sin, Rom 8:10, then its clear that believers do not walk according to the flesh.

And who does walk according to the flesh?
It's those preaching the law. The law is not of faith (Gal 3:12) and yet we see some who profess "Lord, Lord" (Matt 7:21), whilst preaching works of the law. Such people reject the will of God, which is that we believe on Jesus, John 6:40.

Believing on Jesus is how we see whether one is walking in the Spirit. That thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" was in the Spirit, and that without any deeds of the law.

Interesting, believing on the Lord is all there is huh?

Jas 2:19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!
Jas 2:20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

This passage doesn't get quoted much.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Notice that the one who is led of the Spirit is not under the law.

Now many would be quick to say amen. but what does it mean to be led by the spirit?

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

So those who are led/walk in the Spirit do not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

So what then is fulfilling the lust of the flesh?

Gal 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.


Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

The works now notice this the "works" of the flesh fulfill the lust of the flesh. these works are sin, so if you are doing these things then you are fulfilling the lust of the flesh and if you fulfill the lust of the flesh you are not walking in the Spirit which means you are under the law.

So clearly those who sin are under the law.



and no you can not do both as it is clearly written:

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Sound familiar? Romans 7. so these are contrary to one another you can't have both either one or the other.

how one who is saved be under law at any time?

if a child of God walks according to the flesh at any moment, he is in sin, but yet he is under grace, not law. for the law can no longer condemn him.

He will, however, unlike those who are under law because they reject grace, be chastened by God. because he is a child of God, and the lord chastens his own.

this is not law. this is grace.

 

[gotime]

Considering that for Christians our body is already dead (by faith, crucified with Christ, Rom 6:6) because of sin, Rom 8:10, then its clear that believers do not walk according to the flesh.
Indeed exactly as I said, here is the full verse:

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

So the one who is dead by faith does not serve sin/works of the flesh. and again:

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

So our mortal bodies are made alive by the Spirit and we no longer live after the flesh but the "deeds" that is what we did in the flesh is now mortified/dead/we don't do them any more just like Paul said in Galatians.

Faith produces reality, If you die with Christ by faith then your old man dies for real and the works manifest this reality.


And who does walk according to the flesh?
It's those preaching the law. The law is not of faith (Gal 3:12) and yet we see some who profess "Lord, Lord" (Matt 7:21), whilst preaching works of the law. Such people reject the will of God, which is that we believe on Jesus, John 6:40.

Did you forget Paul actually said what the works of the flesh are, here they are for you again, I think scripture should say:

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Lord Lord and what does Jesus say:

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You forgot the bit about sin which agrees also with Galatians 5 and Romans 6 and 8.






Believing on Jesus is how we see whether one is walking in the Spirit. That thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" was in the Spirit, and that without any deeds of the law.

What does it mean to believe in Jesus? is it just believe that He died etc? nope its believing everything about Jesus not just selected parts. Jesus said:

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

So clearly belief must include being born of the water of repentance and the Spirit of life. and what do those who are born of such look life?

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Notice there is no law not even the 10 commandments are against this. Because being born of the Spirit means you wont break it/sin as John says:

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

But the works of the flesh are again:

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.




If you do these then you can claim you believe all you want it clearly says those who do these things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Those who do the works of the flesh are not born again but are still under the law till they come to faith in Jesus which will change them.

You do have a way of twisting scripture, ill give you that.

 

[haz]

Interesting, believing on the Lord is all there is huh?

Jas 2:19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!
Jas 2:20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
.

The demons already know that there is one God. But they will not submit to Him. They are antiChrist.

1John 2:22
Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.

But that thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord", he submitted to God and acknowledged that Jesus is the Christ.
And when Jesus was asked what works we should do, he replied that we should believe on him, John 6:29.

Sadly, this is something legalists really struggle with.

 

[gotime]

The demons already know that there is one God. But they will not submit to Him. They are antiChrist.

1John 2:22
Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.

But that thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord", he submitted to God and acknowledged that Jesus is the Christ.
And when Jesus was asked what works we should do, he replied that we should believe on him, John 6:29.

Sadly, this is something legalists really struggle with.

That same Jesus also said:

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

So what Was Jesus answer?

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

read after to know what commandments Jesus is referring to.

So clearly it is evident that believing in Jesus involves more than a mere lip service. as it is written:

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

and again:

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

So believing and obedience are together. Faith and works.

 

[gotime]

I will say here though that the works are Gods not ours. They are Gods works in us by faith.

 

[michael56]

It's a kinda strange teaching. If you don't break the law(sin) you are not under the law. Not sure how that works out.

I have been impressed at the similarities between the Pentecostal church of my youth and the SDA church I attend with my wife. Apart from two or three obvious differences the church service, structure, and peoples attitudes who attend them are remarkably similar. Both churches, it seems to me are very literalist in their interpretations of scripture. It is the literal word that is paramount. The problem I have found is:

The letter kills but the spirit gives life. If you only have the literal letter, you tend not to have that much love, compassion and mercy in your Gospel message. You need to understand the heart of the message, not just quote the literal letter. That was the Pharisees mistake. They knew the literal letter inside out, but not the heart of the message the letter contained

 

[gotime]

Because under Grace you are freed from sin.

Its Grace that takes you from under the law, rebellious sin puts you under it. Grace is what makes a person cease rebellion to God. So it is Grace through Jesus Christ that makes us free from the condemnation of the law.

You are right the spirit gives life it by the Spirit that we receive this Grace in which we stand.

 

[Least]

It's a kinda strange teaching. If you don't break the law(sin) you are not under the law. Not sure how that works out.

I have been impressed at the similarities between the Pentecostal church of my youth and the SDA church I attend with my wife. Apart from two or three obvious differences the church service, structure, and peoples attitudes who attend them are remarkably similar. Both churches, it seems to me are very literalist in their interpretations of scripture. It is the literal word that is paramount. The problem I have found is:

The letter kills but the spirit gives life. If you only have the literal letter, you tend not to have that much love, compassion and mercy in your Gospel message. You need to understand the heart of the message, not just quote the literal letter. That was the Pharisees mistake. They knew the literal letter inside out, but not the heart of the message the letter contained

It's not confusing at all.

Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


No flesh will be justified in the sight of God.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

It's talking about the flesh here, and if the law is written on our hearts and we are walking by the spirit (key word) and not being led by the flesh. So then, how do we measure how we are walking? The scriptures give the dividing line.

There's a process involved, "renewing of the mind."

 

[haz]

You do have a way of twisting scripture, ill give you that.

I have no doubt you see it that way as you are an Adventist pastor and therefore reject non-Adventist understanding.

To mortify the deeds of the body refers to one's former unbelief, seeking to establish one's own righteousness through dead works. Paul is a good example.
Phil 3:6-9
concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith

You quote Gal 5:19 about works of the flesh, but you read it as a natural man would (1Cor 2:14) and therefor misunderstand. Gal 5 is spiritual. It speaks of spiritual adultery (with Hagar, symbolic for righteousness by works of the law, Gal 34:24). It speaks of uncleanness, which speaks of those without Christ because they are still under the law. It speaks of drunkenness, which is spiritual referring to those drunk with the spiritual wine of fornication with the harlot, Rev 17:1,2.

Remember that scripture is spiritually discerned, 1Cor 2:14.

Regarding Matt 7:23, the workers of iniquity are legalists preaching the law. Whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19. Those who preach the law are under the law and as they all fail to obey it perfectly (yes, that means Adventists too) then they are guilty of all the law (James 2:10). In other words they are workers of iniquity.

Christians, however, cannot be charged with the sin of transgression of the law (1John 3:4) as we're not under its jurisdiction for righteousness (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9).

Who shall lay ANY THING (this includes sin) to the charge of God's elect? Rom 8:33.

You quoted 1John 3:9 but then neglected to refer to the definition of sin in 1John 3:4, transgression of the law. But like I showed before, Christians are not under the jurisdiction of the law, hence we cannot be charged with that sin (Rom 8:33), thus confirming 1John 3:9 we "cannot sin".

But for legalistic Adventists, however, they still sin, being that they seek to remain under the law. I know as I known many Adventists.
Sadly, for legalistic Adventists ( admittedly there are Adventists who are not legalistic and just go through the motions of being an Adventist whilst deep down not pushing the law), Gal 5:18,19 describes their works of the flesh as they lust after Hagar, who is symbolic for righteousness by works of the law (Gal 4:24).

We cannot mix works of the law, with grace. That is to be lukewarm.
Rom 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

 

[michael56]

It's not confusing at all.

Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


No flesh will be justified in the sight of God.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

It's talking about the flesh here, and if the law is written on our hearts and we are walking by the spirit (key word) and not being led by the flesh. So then, how do we measure how we are walking? The scriptures give the dividing line.

There's a process involved, "renewing of the mind."

The problem you have is this. When you state you are not under law if you do not sin, you are stating you are not under law if you perfectly obey the law. Therefore, you are dependant on obedience to the law(being under the law) in order not to be under it.
That, in reality places the individual firmly under the law. And the power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56

Victory over sin, is knowing you are3 not under a law of righteousness. People may word their beliefs very well to try and avoid the obvious implications, but nonetheless it is the truth

 

[haz]

That same Jesus also said:

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

So what Was Jesus answer?

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

read after to know what commandments Jesus is referring to.

You left a lot out of that reference.

Matt 19:20,21
The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?”Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.

Paul forsook his great possessions (righteousness under the law, Phil 3:6) and he followed Jesus.
But that young man refused to forsake his great possessions (righteousness under the law) and he would not believe on Jesus (righteousness by faith, Rom 4:5).

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:36 It says "believes", not "obey".
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him

Faith and works.

Jesus said our works are to believe on him, John 6;29.

But the law is not of faith, Gal 3:12. Therefore we see that it's the legalists who show by their dead works that their faith is dead.

 

[michael56]

John 3:36 It says "believes", not "obey".
He whobelieves in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him



Jesus said our works are to believe on him, John 6;29.

.

This is why Jesus said:

The worlds sin is unbelief in me John 16:9

He did not say, the worlds sin is transgression of the law

 

[Mitspa]

Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Those under the law are in the flesh. That's who Paul is speaking to in chapter 5, trying to get them to walk in the Spirit.