The biblical canon...any books missing from the Bible that ought to be there?

[tribesman]

In another thread Kenneth made this input regarding books that didn't make it to, or were left out of, the canon:

...there are many many more early church documents showing women in leadership roles. Even some that list a number of women as apostles, yet you would deny them just because they are not in the bible. Even though some of them were written around the same time or earlier then some of the books of the NT that we have in the bible.

That was part of that deception done at the Nicene council where they left books out, and changed scriptures to try and hide the fact of women apostles, teachers, preachers, and other leadership roles. Anybody who does an actual full in depth study will find this truth as it is not hidden.

Elsewhere we have roman catholics/eoc and others who might want to suggest that the deuterocanonical books (OT Apocrypha) are to be in all bibles. We might also have people on the messianic/hr/sn bent who may be in favor of a different arrangement of the order of the biblical books. Some people at this board might even say that there is a continuing revelation. Etc.

All in all, this thread is about discussing biblical canon. Do we, peoples of the earth, have the full written records of God's Word translated into our languages or is anything missing? It's a heated topic yet the discussion will be decent and no attacks on anyone, regardless of their position, will be tolerated.

 

[didymos]

I think we should add the Book of Cyril.

 

[crossnote]

It's a little late to be playing Monday morning quarterback on Holy Writ.
The Jews did not include the Apocrypha in their early writings nor did Jesus directly quote from them. Rome did not 'canonize ' them until the 1500's. So that would be a terrible Pandora's box to open up at this stage of the game.

 

[pem]

How about the Book of Kenneth ? No seriously its just fine as it is . After all, God was the Author . It is a huge subject to deal with so i wish you well in this discussion. I lack the knowledge and can speak no Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek so its impossible for me to study all related Documents. If you come unstuck - there is always kenneth to ask

 

[eternally-gratefull]

people just make the same mistakes the jews made, over and over.

the jews added to the laws, and called it from God and equal in significance to the torah. . The roman church added to the NT and OT, and call it equal with scripture.

if your doctrine does not line up with the origional text. the next best things is to add to it and call it equal with Gods word. then you can make up any religion you want.

As for ken, he is still stuck in romanism. until he repents. he will always call these things equal with scripture, even though they were not inspired by God.

 

[mailmandan]

if your doctrine does not line up with the origional text. the next best things is to add to it and call it equal with Gods word. then you can make up any religion you want.

Yes and what a mess! The problem with the Catholics, the Smitholics, the Reorganizers, the Restorers, the Re-evaluators all stem from the same problem. TRYING TO ADD TO GOD'S WORD. Proverbs 30:6 - Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes and what a mess! The problem with the Catholics, the Smitholics, the Reorganizers, the Restorers, the Re-evaluators all stem from the same problem. TRYING TO ADD TO GOD'S WORD. Proverbs 30:6 - Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

what amazes me is they hold these writings up. yet the same writings held that the literal flesh and blood is presnt in the Eucharist, baby baptism was a norm and helped remove original sin, and mother mary was sinless and a goddess herself perfect in all ways from birth to death.

 

[MyLighthouse]

The godly people in charge felt they weren't not God inspired. And since they are available at bookstores, any Christian can see why their not in the Bible. They contradict the other accounts that we know to be God inspired. Yet they are fun to read and interesting nonetheless

 

[dcontroversal]

No saying anything should be added, but it is interesting that the books of Enoch and Jasher are directly quoted and or referenced numerous times in the scriptures.......

I do not reference and or teach out of Enoch, but have read both books and there are things found in them that seem to rise above human understanding and or the ability of a man to know without divine understanding especially in Enoch..........such as Solar winds, the axis tilt of the earth, the comparable size of the sun and moon relative to distance and the sun being 7 times brighter than the sun etc...............

 

[Jason0047]

There are many different texts or manuscripts that the Word of God quotes but are no longer in existence. Why would God choose to leave them out? Do they hold mysteries of things to come? Do they tell us things that mankind is not ready to hear yet? Whatever the reason, God is wise and He has chosen to not to add these other texts to His Holy Scriptures known as the Bible for a reason. In fact, we are not to seek out other texts to add to God's Word. How so? Well, Revelation says, "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18). So while other texts might sound fascinating to seek out, God is telling us that we are to only to follow God's Holy written Scriptures (i.e. the Bible). But I do find it intriguing that God would mention these other texts, though. What is the reason for their mention if we are not to add any more words to the book of His prophecy (i.e. the Bible)? In any event, here is the list of Heavenly and Earthly books or texts found written in the Scriptures.

The Different Books Mentioned in the Bible:

A. Heavenly Books:

#1. The Word of God.
#2. The Lamb's Book of Life.
#3. The Book of Remembrance.
#4. Unnamed Book That Has All Our Members Written Within It.
#5. The Book (Scroll) of the Seven Seals.
#6. Unnamed Books of Judgment.
#7. The Unnamed Little Books That Ezekiel and John Eat.


B. Earthly Books:

I. Spiritual and or Prophetic:

#1. The Word of God.
#2. Samuel's Book of the Manner of the Kingdom.
#3. The Book of Nathan the Prophet.
#4. The Book of Gad the Seer.
#5. The Acts of Solomon.
#6. Solomon's Many Other Proverbs and Songs.
#7. The Prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite.
#8. The Story of the Prophet Iddo.
#9. The Visions of Iddo the Seer.
#10. The Book of Shemaiah the Prophet.
#11. The Sayings of the Seers.
#12. Paul's Earlier Epistle to the Corinthians About Fornication.


II. Historical:

#1. The Book of the Living.
#2. The Book of the Wars of the Lord.
#3. The Book of Jasher.
#4. David's Letter to Joab.
#5. The Book of Jehu.
#6. Jehu's 1st Letter to Samaria.
#7. Jehu's 2nd Letter to Samaria.
#8. Unfinished Record of Princes Not Added to Chronicles.
#9. Writings of David and Solomon on Passover Keepings.
#10. Actions of King Uzziah Not Recorded in the Book of Isaiah.
#11. Mordecai's Purim Announcement Letter to the Jews.
#12. Esther & Mordecai's 2nd Confirmation Letter of Purim.



C. Possible Other Books.

I. Heavenly Books:

#1. The Book of the Living.
#2. Library (Larger Than Earth) on the Complete Life of Jesus.


II. Earthly Books:

#1. The Book of the Kings of Israel.
#2. The Book of the Kings of Judah.
#3. The Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel.
#4. The Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Judah.



D. God's People Revealing Past New Oral Prophecies:

#1. Writer of Hebrews Reveals a New Oral Prophecy of Jesus.
#2. Jude Reveals an Unknown New Oral Prophecy of Enoch.


E. Secular or Wordly Writings in God's Word:

I. God's People Verbally Quoting Secular Writings:

#1. Paul Quotes an Inscription on an Athenian Altar.
#2. Paul Quotes Epimenides' de Oraculis.
#3. Paul Quotes Aratus' Phaenomena (A Poem).
#4. Paul Quotes Menander's Poetry.
#5. Paul Quotes Epimenides' Paradox.


II. Secular Works Transcribed (In Part or In It's Entirety):

#1. Jezebel's Letters to the Officials of Naboth's City.
#2. Sennacherib's Letter to Hezekiah.
#3. Huram's Letter to Solomon.
#4. Shemaiah's Letter to Zephaniah on the Exile Prophecy.
#5. King Cyrus's Proclamation to All His Kingdom.
#6. Enemies of Judah Led by 3 Men Write a Letter to Artaxerxes.
#7. Artaxerxes Letter in Reply to the 3 Men.
#8. Govenor Tatnai Writes to Darius About the Jews Rebuilding.
#9. Darius' Decree to Help Rebuild the Temple.
#10. Artaxerxe's Approval Letter to Ezra to Rebuild the Wall.
#11. Sanballat Threatens Nehemiah to Stop Building the Wall.
#12. Chief Captain Claudius Lysias' Letter to Governor Felix.


III. Secular Works Mentioned By Name But Not Shown:

#1. Benhadad's Letter to the King of Israel.
#2. Berodachbaladan's Letters to Hezekiah.
#3. Artaxerxe's Letters to Nehemiah in Rebuilding the Wall.
#4. Tobaiah & the Judean Noble's Letters Sent to Nehemiah.
#5. The Chronicles of the Kings of Media and Persia.
#6. Xerxe's Unintended Decree (By Haman) to Kill the Jews.
#7. Xerxe's Decree for the Jews to Protect Themselves.
#8. High Priest's Letters Enabling Saul to Round-up Christians.

 

[Jason0047]

For A List of Verses For This List, Please Check Out My Post Here within this Thread:

ECT The Lamb's Book of Life and other books. - Theology Online | Christian Forums & More

 

[tribesman]

It's a little late to be playing Monday morning quarterback on Holy Writ.
The Jews did not include the Apocrypha in their early writings nor did Jesus directly quote from them. Rome did not 'canonize ' them until the 1500's. So that would be a terrible Pandora's box to open up at this stage of the game.

I would tend to agree. However, the earliest christians did use the Septuagint in which these books were to be found. The greek orthodox have, I think, always held them in high regard. The DSS have also found hebrew/aramaic texts of some of these so-called "greek texts". The western church's decision to go by the masoretes have created much of the negative view of the OT Apocrypha that we see today. However, we are always facing the problem with not having the full OT Apocrypha in hebrew/aramaic text, which leaves us with some uncertainty. As for direct quotes of them by Christ and the apostles, that may be discussed. I have a non-english language Bible, which does not contain the OT Apocrypha, yet has 39 references to it only in the NT.

 

[tribesman]

There are many different texts or manuscripts that the Word of God quotes but are no longer in existence. Why would God choose to leave them out? Do they hold mysteries of things to come? Do they tell us things that mankind is not ready to hear yet? Whatever the reason, God is wise and He has chosen to not to add these other texts to His Holy Scriptures known as the Bible for a reason. In fact, we are not to seek out other texts to add to God's Word. How so? Well, Revelation says, "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18). So while other texts might sound fascinating to seek out, God is telling us that we are to only to follow God's Holy written Scriptures (i.e. the Bible). But I do find it intriguing that God would mention these other texts, though. What is the reason for their mention if we are not to add any more words to the book of His prophecy (i.e. the Bible)? In any event, here is the list of Heavenly and Earthly books or texts found written in the Scriptures.

The Different Books Mentioned in the Bible:

A. Heavenly Books:

#1. The Word of God.
#2. The Lamb's Book of Life.
#3. The Book of Remembrance.
#4. Unnamed Book That Has All Our Members Written Within It.
#5. The Book (Scroll) of the Seven Seals.
#6. Unnamed Books of Judgment.
#7. The Unnamed Little Books That Ezekiel and John Eat.


B. Earthly Books:

I. Spiritual and or Prophetic:

#1. The Word of God.
#2. Samuel's Book of the Manner of the Kingdom.
#3. The Book of Nathan the Prophet.
#4. The Book of Gad the Seer.
#5. The Acts of Solomon.
#6. Solomon's Many Other Proverbs and Songs.
#7. The Prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite.
#8. The Story of the Prophet Iddo.
#9. The Visions of Iddo the Seer.
#10. The Book of Shemaiah the Prophet.
#11. The Sayings of the Seers.
#12. Paul's Earlier Epistle to the Corinthians About Fornication.


II. Historical:

#1. The Book of the Living.
#2. The Book of the Wars of the Lord.
#3. The Book of Jasher.
#4. David's Letter to Joab.
#5. The Book of Jehu.
#6. Jehu's 1st Letter to Samaria.
#7. Jehu's 2nd Letter to Samaria.
#8. Unfinished Record of Princes Not Added to Chronicles.
#9. Writings of David and Solomon on Passover Keepings.
#10. Actions of King Uzziah Not Recorded in the Book of Isaiah.
#11. Mordecai's Purim Announcement Letter to the Jews.
#12. Esther & Mordecai's 2nd Confirmation Letter of Purim.



C. Possible Other Books.

I. Heavenly Books:

#1. The Book of the Living.
#2. Library (Larger Than Earth) on the Complete Life of Jesus.


II. Earthly Books:

#1. The Book of the Kings of Israel.
#2. The Book of the Kings of Judah.
#3. The Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel.
#4. The Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Judah.



D. God's People Revealing Past New Oral Prophecies:

#1. Writer of Hebrews Reveals a New Oral Prophecy of Jesus.
#2. Jude Reveals an Unknown New Oral Prophecy of Enoch.


E. Secular or Wordly Writings in God's Word:

I. God's People Verbally Quoting Secular Writings:

#1. Paul Quotes an Inscription on an Athenian Altar.
#2. Paul Quotes Epimenides' de Oraculis.
#3. Paul Quotes Aratus' Phaenomena (A Poem).
#4. Paul Quotes Menander's Poetry.
#5. Paul Quotes Epimenides' Paradox.


II. Secular Works Transcribed (In Part or In It's Entirety):

#1. Jezebel's Letters to the Officials of Naboth's City.
#2. Sennacherib's Letter to Hezekiah.
#3. Huram's Letter to Solomon.
#4. Shemaiah's Letter to Zephaniah on the Exile Prophecy.
#5. King Cyrus's Proclamation to All His Kingdom.
#6. Enemies of Judah Led by 3 Men Write a Letter to Artaxerxes.
#7. Artaxerxes Letter in Reply to the 3 Men.
#8. Govenor Tatnai Writes to Darius About the Jews Rebuilding.
#9. Darius' Decree to Help Rebuild the Temple.
#10. Artaxerxe's Approval Letter to Ezra to Rebuild the Wall.
#11. Sanballat Threatens Nehemiah to Stop Building the Wall.
#12. Chief Captain Claudius Lysias' Letter to Governor Felix.


III. Secular Works Mentioned By Name But Not Shown:

#1. Benhadad's Letter to the King of Israel.
#2. Berodachbaladan's Letters to Hezekiah.
#3. Artaxerxe's Letters to Nehemiah in Rebuilding the Wall.
#4. Tobaiah & the Judean Noble's Letters Sent to Nehemiah.
#5. The Chronicles of the Kings of Media and Persia.
#6. Xerxe's Unintended Decree (By Haman) to Kill the Jews.
#7. Xerxe's Decree for the Jews to Protect Themselves.
#8. High Priest's Letters Enabling Saul to Round-up Christians.

Yes, this is interesting and should somehow be accounted for. The question then arises what we are to make out of it, especially the earthly books? Do we not yet have the full written record of the Word of God and are left out to hope for new discoveries such as the DSS?

 

[yaright]

In another thread Kenneth made this input regarding books that didn't make it to, or were left out of, the canon:



Elsewhere we have roman catholics/eoc and others who might want to suggest that the deuterocanonical books (OT Apocrypha) are to be in all bibles. We might also have people on the messianic/hr/sn bent who may be in favor of a different arrangement of the order of the biblical books. Some people at this board might even say that there is a continuing revelation. Etc.

All in all, this thread is about discussing biblical canon. Do we, peoples of the earth, have the full written records of God's Word translated into our languages or is anything missing? It's a heated topic yet the discussion will be decent and no attacks on anyone, regardless of their position, will be tolerated.

I've found myself wondering where the other half of a thought might be found. I've scanned cannon and wasn't able to experience the rich creation language found in the bible. I found the book of Deuteronomy to be a language of two laws; one which is seen and the image of that law being the greater understanding. On one hand is the law, and on the other hand is how Jesus teaches that law from within. Described as the first and the second first, one is the image of the other. A similar way of saying the first baptizing (of repentance) and the second baptism by fire (of the spirit). The first and the second first but the latter could not be taught without the first. What is born again in the spirit if there is no birth in the flesh. These two laws are the image of each other. This wisdom is found throughout biblical teaching rich in creation language; because all of creation is designed this way.

 

[kennethcadwell]

How about the Book of Kenneth ? No seriously its just fine as it is . After all, God was the Author . It is a huge subject to deal with so i wish you well in this discussion. I lack the knowledge and can speak no Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek so its impossible for me to study all related Documents. If you come unstuck - there is always kenneth to ask

That first quote is uncalled for, but there are many other writings that were done by the Apostles that most people do not even read. Some were left out because the council did not like what was in those writings, others were left out because of how late they were written, others were left out because not complete version found as parts were missing, and others were left out because they determined did not need more books to say the same that was already chosen.
In other words we do not need more then 4 books of the gospel according to.....

Apostle Timothy wrote some letters that are not in the bible, and there is the gospel of James and Thomas.

There of coarse is always the controversial ones that some will reject as the gospel of Mary that shows women in the role of an apostle. Plus with this one we have these as well; Gospel of Judas, gospel of Truth, gospel of Philip.
These were all rejected by one, the other, or both when written or context as they were dated to be written around the 2nd to 4th century.

 

[crossnote]

OK, how about getting down and dirty?...

What 'revelation of truth' do you find in the Apocrypha that was not revealed in 'big 66'.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

old testament...the original classic...
new testament...the perfect sequel...
apocrypha...the deleted scenes...
enoch...the blooper reel...
nag hammadi...bad fanfiction...
quran...the lousy michael bay remake...
book of mormon...the low budget knockoff...

 

[kennethcadwell]

OK, how about getting down and dirty?...

What 'revelation of truth' do you find in the Apocrypha that was not revealed in 'big 66'.

The thing is that even in God's word it says if you have a question seek out in prayer to Him, and He will reveal the truth to us by His Holy Spirit.
And one of the points I make as to why all sources must be looked at and then taken in context as to if it is God's word to or not, by asking Him in prayer and He will reveal the answer. We are not to lean on other men's understandings or teachings, as they may not be the truth. We are to lean on Him and let Him give us knowledge through the Holy Spirit.

The other thing is that God even warns about adding or taking away from His word, yet even when seeing that people think the written scriptures in English are pure and without error. Yet it has been proven that all English versions we have there are either small translation errors to very large and damaging translation errors, or just blatant rewording of scripture to make them say something they don't.

We are to put our complete and total faith in Him, and let Him guide us through all truth by the Holy Spirit.

 

[kennethcadwell]

old testament...the original classic...
new testament...the perfect sequel...
apocrypha...the deleted scenes...
enoch...the blooper reel...
nag hammadi...bad fanfiction...
quran...the lousy michael bay remake...
book of mormon...the low budget knockoff...

LOL...........Nice word play

 

[Jason0047]

Yes, this is interesting and should somehow be accounted for. The question then arises what we are to make out of it, especially the earthly books? Do we not yet have the full written record of the Word of God and are left out to hope for new discoveries such as the DSS?

We have to think of it in terms of like this. What message does God intend to leave for his body of believers today? Clearly it is not a matter of God not being powerful enough here to preserve His Word. We know God had made Jeremiah re-write a scroll that was burned by another who did not like it. So the writings of those different books are clearly left out of God's message for us today for a good reason. They were left out because it was a message for certain people (And not all people). For example: God's command or message to Noah and his family to build an Ark applied to him (and his family) and they do not apply to us today. In other words, different messages are for different people through time. No Word of God is ever truly missing, because the Scriptures say that His Word is forever settled in Heaven. This would be both the Spoken Word of God and the Written Word of God. Everything God has said (and had written down) is settled in Heaven. Also, the revelation known as the Bible is perfect and complete. There is no other book like it on the Earth. No other book has been more accurate scientfically, and historically than the Bible. We are also not to add any words to God's Word because Revelation says we are not to add any words to his book (Which is followed by a curse if one were to do so). Yes, I am aware that Revelation is speaking of the book itself, but I also believe it is a double fulfillment type passage that is also talking about the whole of the Bible, too.