On Heaven : Why is heaven such a desirable goal ?

[Tandon]

Was doing a simple thought experiment - if I were to be in heaven, I obviously would like a healthy, youthful body, but then so would everybody else ... so in heaven everybody would be young and athletic, no young children, no older statesman, no grandparents, kind of would be very monotonous.

And thinking along these lines, by that understanding, heaven should be perfect - once we say something can become imperfect, it starts becoming like earth ... so in a perfected place everything is already perfect - that would mean each day is exactly like the other, no change, the same routine over and over again, nothing to talk about as nothing changes, sounds like zombie land .

I dont think I can last there more than a few days ... what do ya think ?

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

The goal is not heaven, the goal is an everlasting relationship with the Creator of heaven and earth.

The problem in thinking my goal is heaven is that the "goal" is all about me and what I want...

 

[yogosans14]

The goal is not heaven, the goal is an everlasting relationship with the Creator of heaven and earth.

The problem in thinking my goal is heaven is that the "goal" is all about me and what I want...

Amen!!couldnt have said it better myself. Heaven isn't a "goal". A goal would be something you work to achieve anyways which you can't so.

 

[Galahad]

Was doing a simple thought experiment

That's the problem.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Was doing a simple thought experiment - if I were to be in heaven, I obviously would like a healthy, youthful body, but then so would everybody else ... so in heaven everybody would be young and athletic, no young children, no older statesman, no grandparents, kind of would be very monotonous.

And thinking along these lines, by that understanding, heaven should be perfect - once we say something can become imperfect, it starts becoming like earth ... so in a perfected place everything is already perfect - that would mean each day is exactly like the other, no change, the same routine over and over again, nothing to talk about as nothing changes, sounds like zombie land .

I dont think I can last there more than a few days ... what do ya think ?

Psalm 14:1-6 ESV
1The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds,
there is none who does good.
2The Lord looks down from heaven on the children of man,
to see if there are any who understand,[SUP]a[/SUP]
who seek after God.
3They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt;
there is none who does good,
not even one.
4Have they no knowledge, all the evildoers
who eat up my people as they eat bread
and do not call upon the Lord?
5There they are in great terror,
for God is with the generation of the righteous.
6You would shame the plans of the poor,
but[SUP]b[/SUP] the Lord is his refuge.



1 John 2:15-17
15Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life[SUP]c[/SUP]—is not from the Father but is from the world. 17And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.

 

[Ella85]

hmmmmm.........

I don't know about you but would you not want to be in the presence of the one who created you?
The one who gave you life, breath and a spirit to have an eternal existence in a place where we can live freely without anyone condemning you, without murder, without hatred, jealously, theft, etc.
Would it not be nice to be amongst all the animals where the wolf and the lamb shall eat together.
Why would God - being the lofty one, create a heaven where we would be bored and monotonous?
Why would He?
I mean think about it logically............
Have you seen how big space is? Earth is TINY....MINUTE compared to the galaxies that He has created.
ahha ummmm I really don't see myself getting bored....

Having an eternal relationship with God
Eternally happy with my loved ones
Being free from sin

The rest is up to God, and how He sees our eternal life to be.
All I know is that I will be eternally grateful that I have been saved and washed clean from sin. We will be made new, and when we are made new this world will be nothing compared to what He has planned for His children. He loves us so much, the life here on earth was only for us to choose good or bad. And because we have obeyed Him, He will reward us in many ways that your mind will never be able to comprehend.

 

[shug1289]

Hey,

I can understand where you are coming from. I have heard a lot of Christians say that heaven doesn't actually sound that appealing. I appreciate your honesty. Unfortunately, we don't seem to get a lot of teaching about heaven. When you look around, there aren't really many good books out there about it.

As someone has already mentioned, heaven isn't actually about satisfying our earthly dreams and desires. It is about being in intimate relationship with the great and awesome God. God is unsearchable, even Google couldn't index him Every day we will discover something new about our incredible God. Every day will be a new joy.

Also, don't confuse perfection with uniformity. Perfection in the context of heaven really means the absences of corruption. Remember, God created the earth to be perfect originally. When he did so, there was great variety. There was man as well as woman, all sorts of creatures, trees and other vegetation and celestial bodies etc etc. It won't be monotonous in heaven. But again, what made the earth so special before the fall was that God himself was there.

Revelation 21:1-4 sums it all up pretty nicely:

Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[SUP][a][/SUP] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. [SUP]4 [/SUP]‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’[SUP][b][/SUP] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

 

[JaumeJ]

I will ask you. Which is lasts longest, eternity or the blink of an eye?-

 

[john832]

No one ever goes to heaven. The reward of the saved is here on earth. Christ made this plain on the night before He died...

Joh 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

He said this to the twelve He had specifically chosen to be Apostles. He went on to say this...

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Quite often this is just read right over without thinking about what He said. He said He would come back (Acts 1:11) and rule on the earth. He also promised the saved a part in this rulership...

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

After the Millennium, even the Father comes to the earth...

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

We don't go there, God comes here.

Our "goal" is to have a relationship with God that will be sustainable for eternity. For that to happen, we must have the mind of God developed in us...

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

And this is developed by a life of overcoming...

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

 

[blue_ladybug]

we go to heaven.. John 13:33 "whither I go, ye cannot come" means that the apostles couldn't ascend with him to heaven at that time. Jesus went to "prepare a place for us", and when he said "I will come again and receive you unto myself, that where I am (meaning in heaven), there shall you be also." he meant that he's going to gather us up with him back into heaven.

 

[john832]

we go to heaven.. John 13:33 "whither I go, ye cannot come" means that the apostles couldn't ascend with him to heaven at that time. Jesus went to "prepare a place for us", and when he said "I will come again and receive you unto myself, that where I am (meaning in heaven), there shall you be also." he meant that he's going to gather us up with him back into heaven.

When He comes again, where is He?

Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

The myth of going to heaven is not scriptural and it's source is from this guy...

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

That is the guy who wanted to go to heaven. In actuality, Christ returns to the earth and then the Father comes to the earth.

Again, we don't go there, God comes here.

 

[Tandon]

Thanks guys for taking the trouble to reply.

I liked shug1289's reply. To some of the other points -
:: GandaIfWhite -> Goal is not heaven then it is relationship with the Creator ... either way it is a goal. And it is about what I want, at the end of it ... if God decided on his own thinking to alter the equation and send all the good christians to hell or suffering, you and me wouldnt be here. God may not do that is another matter. The honest to goodness truth is we do want something out of it in the end. As Ella85 said, "he will reward us because we obeyed him "... so there is a reward expectation, at least she is honest about it -

Also, the scripture is inferred differently by different people -
Ladybug feels that we go to heaven
John832 feels whatever happens, happens on earth.

I have also seen in different threads, similar discussion - http://christianchat.com/miscellane...w-earth-when-they-die-anyone-even-heaven.html

Is the scripture confusing ? or are we unable to interpret properly ?

A related question, can somebody comment if it is sufficient to be a Christian. Does it matter the type of Christian ? And what about Christians who have committed grave sins, such as the pastor who had sex with underage children. What is the neccessary condition to get to heaven/ be on the right side of God basically. I guess enough people have given thought to it.

 

[psychomom]

A related question, can somebody comment if it is sufficient to be a Christian. Does it matter the type of Christian ? And what about Christians who have committed grave sins, such as the pastor who had sex with underage children. What is the neccessary condition to get to heaven/ be on the right side of God basically. I guess enough people have given thought to it.

ugh. don't like the hypotheticals.

suffice it to say that to be in right relationship to God is up to HIM.

He made the just demands, and He met them, too.

 

[john832]

Thanks guys for taking the trouble to reply.

I liked shug1289's reply. To some of the other points -
:: GandaIfWhite -> Goal is not heaven then it is relationship with the Creator ... either way it is a goal. And it is about what I want, at the end of it ... if God decided on his own thinking to alter the equation and send all the good christians to hell or suffering, you and me wouldnt be here. God may not do that is another matter. The honest to goodness truth is we do want something out of it in the end. As Ella85 said, "he will reward us because we obeyed him "... so there is a reward expectation, at least she is honest about it -

Also, the scripture is inferred differently by different people -
Ladybug feels that we go to heaven
John832 feels whatever happens, happens on earth.

I have also seen in different threads, similar discussion - http://christianchat.com/miscellane...w-earth-when-they-die-anyone-even-heaven.html

Is the scripture confusing ? or are we unable to interpret properly ?

A related question, can somebody comment if it is sufficient to be a Christian. Does it matter the type of Christian ? And what about Christians who have committed grave sins, such as the pastor who had sex with underage children. What is the neccessary condition to get to heaven/ be on the right side of God basically. I guess enough people have given thought to it.

Being a "Christian" is not the criteria, Gandalf had the right answer, it is your relationship with God that matters.

As far as grave sins, God can forgive any sin (save blasphemy against the Holy Spirit). Christ the Creator's life was worth more than the sum total of the entire creation and His Sacrifice is more than sufficient to pay for any and all sin.

 

[JaumeJ]

According to Jesus Christ if we believe the Son we are saved. Now believe entails much more than just agreement with God, for God waits for agreement from no man. There is action in believing Jesus Christ, a more Hebrew manner of belief.

Thanks guys for taking the trouble to reply.

I liked shug1289's reply. To some of the other points -
:: GandaIfWhite -> Goal is not heaven then it is relationship with the Creator ... either way it is a goal. And it is about what I want, at the end of it ... if God decided on his own thinking to alter the equation and send all the good christians to hell or suffering, you and me wouldnt be here. God may not do that is another matter. The honest to goodness truth is we do want something out of it in the end. As Ella85 said, "he will reward us because we obeyed him "... so there is a reward expectation, at least she is honest about it -

Also, the scripture is inferred differently by different people -
Ladybug feels that we go to heaven
John832 feels whatever happens, happens on earth.

I have also seen in different threads, similar discussion - http://christianchat.com/miscellane...w-earth-when-they-die-anyone-even-heaven.html

Is the scripture confusing ? or are we unable to interpret properly ?

A related question, can somebody comment if it is sufficient to be a Christian. Does it matter the type of Christian ? And what about Christians who have committed grave sins, such as the pastor who had sex with underage children. What is the neccessary condition to get to heaven/ be on the right side of God basically. I guess enough people have given thought to it.

 

[pwrnJC]

You sound like the lady I had a recent argument with who proclaimed "IF my poodle will not be in heaven with me, then I don't want to go!" I asked her "But, what if your poodle goes to hell, will you join it there?" How silly to limit heaven by what you can only imagine, using your earthly brain as the only resource there is. If you continue to think that heaven is mundane, then try the other end of the spectrum and study up on hell and it's eternal consequences. I would encourage you to ask the Holy SPIRIT to be part of your daily walk in CHRIST, filling you with HIS SPIRIT, seeking your spiritual gifts listed in the new Testament and becoming more in tune with putting others first and not 'worry" or ponder on what heaven will be like and enjoy the new life you have in CHRIST while walking on this soon to be distroyed planet.

 

[john832]

According to Jesus Christ if we believe the Son we are saved. Now believe entails much more than just agreement with God, for God waits for agreement from no man. There is action in believing Jesus Christ, a more Hebrew manner of belief.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to JaumeJ again.

 

[JonahLynx]

Actually the Bible teaches that there will be a New Earth created, and this is where we will live. I guess we will still have the responsibility of maintaining creation and productivity but without the hinderance of sin. The idea that we stay in heaven forever isn't based on Scripture despite being repeated in Christian circles.

 

[BibleReader]

There is the sterotype put forth by some media of a big party going on in Hell and it being quite boring up in Heaven. Yeah, ok... we're not going to be disappointed in Heaven. We just have to let go of our limited understanding.

Glorifying God, worshipping God, praising Him, being a testimony of Jesus Christ to others, that is our purpose in life. God created us because He desired a relationship with us. Then we sinned and God went through a great deal of trouble to save us as a broken people.

I once went through a horrible bit of trouble, still am in fact in some respects, and one day, I said, "I need to start putting myself first." That was my thought on how to stop being walked all over. Oh wait, and someone set me straight on this. I need to start putting Jesus first and that was mind blowing to me, and that really taught me an important lesson. It must always be Jesus first, above you, above your relationships, above everything else.
.
As a kid, you hear about the prospect of going to Hell or going to Heaven? What scared little kid would want to go to Hell, first of all? Then, you get into the greater concept, as if that's the choice you're making. Door Number #1 Hell, Door #2 Heaven. Behind Door #3... a new car. Christianity isn't a game show. This isn't even the choice, really.

Its more, will you be judged by your works/deeds/self-righteousness or saved through faith in Christ?

Justification by faith in Christ is the nuts and bolts doctrine, as best I understand it.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" Ephesians 2:8

The benefits of belief are not the goal, rather a free gift provided by God.

just my two cents.

 

[84Niner]

we go to heaven.. John 13:33 "whither I go, ye cannot come" means that the apostles couldn't ascend with him to heaven at that time. Jesus went to "prepare a place for us", and when he said "I will come again and receive you unto myself, that where I am (meaning in heaven), there shall you be also." he meant that he's going to gather us up with him back into heaven.

This passage in John is so often misunderstood. For many years I too misunderstood it. We live in such a material existence. We often attach a material meaning to scripture like this. At this time I am not going to attach all the relative supportive scripture but the words "go and prepare a place for you" does not mean something like; Jesus is going to get our heavenly mansion all ready for us to move into. The word in Jn 14:2 which is often translated "mansions" is misleading. It should be translated "abodes". It is the same word used in 14:23 where Jesus tells them that "Me and my Father will come and make an abode with him". It means to dwell with. The word "prepare" (vs 2-3) invokes what Jesus is about to go through (death, resurrection, and ascension) so that we​ could put into Christ as members of His body and thus "be where He is". Where is He? If you carefully read the context of this passage you will see that the "where I am" Jesus is speaking about is (with the Father). After the shedding of His blood for our redemption followed by His resurrection and ascension we can now become one with Him and be where He is, with the Father. It's mostly concerning "relationship", rather than "place".

This is also born out with Jesus's prayer concerning His followers in John 17 where Jesus prayed that this oneness that He shared with the Father would become the same oneness that we would enter into with Him. Read especially verse 17:21-24.