Incest and the Bible

[Cako53]

Alright, so I know the bible clearly speaks out agianst incest.

LEV 18:6 "'No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual
relations. I am the LORD.

7 "'Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your
mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.

8 "'Do not have sexual relations with your father's wife; that would
dishonor your father.

9 "'Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father's
daughter or your mother's daughter, whether she was born in the same home
or elsewhere.

10 "'Do not have sexual relations with your son's daughter or your
daughter's daughter; that would dishonor you.

11 "'Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father's wife,
born to your father; she is your sister.

12 "'Do not have sexual relations with your father's sister; she is your
father's close relative.

13 "'Do not have sexual relations with your mother's sister, because she
is your mother's close relative.

14 "'Do not dishonor your father's brother by approaching his wife to have
sexual relations; she is your aunt.

15 "'Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your
son's wife; do not have relations with her.

16 "'Do not have sexual relations with your brother's wife; that would
dishonor your brother.

17 "'Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do
not have sexual relations with either her son's daughter or her daughter's
daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.

18 "'Do not take your wife's sister as a rival wife and have sexual
relations with her while your wife is living.

20:11 "'If a man sleeps with his father's wife, he has dishonored his
father. Both the man and the woman must be put to death; their blood will
be on their own heads.

12 "'If a man sleeps with his daughter-in-law, both of them must be put to
death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be on their
own heads.

17 "'If a man marries his sister, the daughter of either his father or his
mother, and they have sexual relations, it is a disgrace. They must be cut
off before the eyes of their people. He has dishonored his sister and will
be held responsible.

19 "'Do not have sexual relations with the sister of either your mother or
your father, for that would dishonor a close relative; both of you would be
held responsible.

20 "'If a man sleeps with his aunt, he has dishonored his uncle. They will
be held responsible; they will die childless.

21 "'If a man marries his brother's wife, it is an act of impurity; he has
dishonored his brother. They will be childless.

DEU 22:30 A man is not to marry his father's wife; he must not dishonor
his father's bed.

27:10 Obey the LORD your God and follow his commands and decrees that I
give you today."

22 "Cursed is the man who sleeps with his sister, the daughter of his
father or the daughter of his mother." Then all the people shall say,
"Amen!"

23 "Cursed is the man who sleeps with his mother-in-law." Then all the
people shall say, "Amen!"

EZE 22:11 In you one man commits a detestable offense with his neighbor's
wife, another shamefully defiles his daughter-in-law, and another violates
his sister, his own father's daughter.

1CO 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you,
and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's
wife.


So it is quite clear that God is against incest. But did he not allow it to happen? Was Cain's wife not his own sister? Since Adam and Eve were the first humans. Does that not make Cains wife his siter?

And Cain went out from the face of the Lord, and dwelt as a fugitive on the earth, at the east side of Eden. And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived, and brought forth Henoch: and he built a city, and called the name thereof by the name of his son Henoch. [Genesis 4:16-17]

I'm just wondering aboiut people's thoughts on this, with biblical evidence to prove it. Thanks. God Bless.

[greatkraw]

yeah Cain married his sister and the incest law did not come in for thousands of years

Abraham married his half sister
Isaac and Jacob married cousins

when Cain was around the human DNA had not had a chance to deteriorate

[Cako53]

Originally Posted by greatkraw

yeah Cain married his sister and the incest law did not come in for thousands of years

Abraham married his half sister
Isaac and Jacob married cousins

when Cain was around the human DNA had not had a chance to deteriorate

So, wait. I'm just trying to understand this. How come Cain got kicked out of the garden of Eden? I realize he killed his brother, but if the laws weren't put in for thousands of years, then why did he get the boot?

[greatkraw]

the first divine institution was free will
the second was marriage
the third was family

Cain denied his brother Abel his free will
He knew he was doing wrong
Marrying his sister was not doing wrong

[Cako53]

Originally Posted by greatkraw

the first divine institution was free will
the second was marriage
the third was family

Cain denied his brother Abel his free will
He knew he was doing wrong
Marrying his sister was not doing wrong

Thank you very much!

There are two things which incests involves:
1. Genetic loading: bad genes are double when close relatives mate.
2. Trust relationship: Incest breaks trust within a family.
Early in the genetic history of man, there had been little degeneration of the genes and so genetic loading wasn't a problem.
The early generations lived for great lengths of time. Cain and Seth both could have been hundreds of years older than there wives and might have barely known them before courting began. There was no trust relationship.
Just some additional thoughts.

Originally Posted by Cako53

it is quite clear that God is against incest. But did he not allow it to happen? Was Cain's wife not his own sister? Since Adam and Eve were the first humans. Does that not make Cains wife his siter?

And Cain went out from the face of the Lord, and dwelt as a fugitive on the earth, at the east side of Eden. And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived, and brought forth Henoch: and he built a city, and called the name thereof by the name of his son Henoch. [Genesis 4:16-17]

I'm just wondering aboiut people's thoughts on this, with biblical evidence to prove it. Thanks. God Bless.

The Torah also commands "choose life." In cases where death is the only other alternative, the Torah commands us to "choose life."

Deut 30:19
...So choose life in order that you may live...

If Cain and Seth did not lay with their wives, human kind would not have reproduced, and that first generation would have died out long ago, along with the human race, and with it the hope of Messiah through the woman.

The Torah has always existed. G-d Word is eternal, because the Word itself was with G-d in the Beginning, and was G-d, and He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Cain sinned because he had something against his brother when he brought his offering. He was also the priest of his family, being the firstborn (until G-d made the children of Aaron into priests), and thus responsible for bringing the firstfruits offering which is what they (Cain and Abel) were supposed to be doing. The Torah tells us what is commanded concerning bikkurim (firstfruits), and well, Cain didn't follow the commands to bring the firstlings of his harvest, but his brother did. The scripture only ascribes "firstlings" to Abel's offering, and not to Cain, thus we infer that Cain didn't bring firstlings. Therefore G-d looked favorably on Abel and not on Cain, because Abel kept the command concerning what was supposed to be offered: firstfruits (and not second best). This is how G-d could then charge Cain saying, "if you do good, will it not go well with you?" According to what standard? The Torah.

Cain murdered Abel.

When Cain was being judged by G-d, Cain said "am I my brother's keeper?" he totally shirked his responsibility to stand in the gap for Abel as his priest, and did in fact the exact opposite and was the one who murdered him. Thus the Torah defines what murder is later in the Torah, and its punishment. We later learn that Tubal Cain killed a man (most likely his grandfather Cain), which is death at the hands of Heaven, which is the punishment for one who murders someone without witnesses.

Now Cain wasn't banned from the Garden. His parents were - Adam and Eve. This was to prevent Adam and Eve from eating of the Tree of Life and living forever condemned in their sinful state.

Hope that helps.

Shalom,

Israel

I have to disagree with Israel. God always provides a righteous way to accomplish His well. Expediency has no impact on morality.

[Nuhen]

Is it not possible that G-d created other people after creating Adam and Eve? Scripture portrays the people Cain married into as being a SEPARATE people, and Scripture is very specific that Adam and Eve only had Cain and Abel, and then their son Seth came long after.

Through Adam all man sinned. If there were other men created, then this wouldn't be true.

[MahogonySnail]

I believe Adam had a few more ribs to spare.

Originally Posted by MahogonySnail

I believe Adam had a few more ribs to spare.

lol. then that would mean G-d made Adam and Eve, and Mary. The polygamists would have a field day with that one.

[MahogonySnail]

And the polygamist homosexuals... Adam, Eve, AND Steve :P

[Nuhen]

Or G-d could have just created a different group of people :P

Yes, through Adam all men sin...but that's because mankind is sinful now, not because we all came from Adam.

21 "'If a man marries his brother's wife, it is an act of impurity; he has
dishonored his brother. They will be childless.

Am I incorrect in being confused here? Doesn't the Bible say;
"If brothers are living together and one of them dies without a son, his widow must not marry outside the family. Her husband's brother shall take her and marry her and fulfil the duty of a brother-in-law to her." (Duet. 25:5) ?
Or is the first verse only applicable when both brothers are still alive? If so, it's not particularly clear...


Hum...Interesting how a man is instructed not to sleep with his son's daughter or his daughter's daughter, but there's no say against sleeping with his own daughter. I suppose that explains why Lot and his daughters were never condemned for sleeping together.

Originally Posted by Artbox

21 "'If a man marries his brother's wife, it is an act of impurity; he has
dishonored his brother. They will be childless.

Am I incorrect in being confused here? Doesn't the Bible say;
"If brothers are living together and one of them dies without a son, his widow must not marry outside the family. Her husband's brother shall take her and marry her and fulfil the duty of a brother-in-law to her." (Duet. 25:5) ?
Or is the first verse only applicable when both brothers are still alive? If so, it's not particularly clear...


Hum...Interesting how a man is instructed not to sleep with his son's daughter or his daughter's daughter, but there's no say against sleeping with his own daughter. I suppose that explains why Lot and his daughters were never condemned for sleeping together.

Or perhaps it was so obvious to not need statement. i think the context of the whole chapter on incest would indicate that in 21 it is refering to while the brother is alive.

Originally Posted by charisenexcelcis

Or perhaps it was so obvious to not need statement. i think the context of the whole chapter on incest would indicate that in 21 it is refering to while the brother is alive.

Perhaps it was so obvious. It's just a little bizarre/curious to me that it covers pretty much ever other instance of incest, including a man sleeping with his mother or his mother-in-law, which I would assume to be equally as obvious.

Originally Posted by Artbox

21 "'If a man marries his brother's wife, it is an act of impurity; he has
dishonored his brother. They will be childless.

Am I incorrect in being confused here? Doesn't the Bible say;
"If brothers are living together and one of them dies without a son, his widow must not marry outside the family. Her husband's brother shall take her and marry her and fulfil the duty of a brother-in-law to her." (Duet. 25:5) ?
Or is the first verse only applicable when both brothers are still alive? If so, it's not particularly clear...


Hum...Interesting how a man is instructed not to sleep with his son's daughter or his daughter's daughter, but there's no say against sleeping with his own daughter. I suppose that explains why Lot and his daughters were never condemned for sleeping together.

Leviticus 18:6 "No man may approach any of his close relatives to uncover their nakedness through intimate relations; I am the ETERNAL."

"90. Not to commit incest with one's daughter(this is not explicitly in the Torah, but is inferred from other explicit commands that would include it)" -jewfaq.org It's in the list of 613 mitzvot

Originally Posted by lil-rush

Leviticus 18:6 "No man may approach any of his close relatives to uncover their nakedness through intimate relations; I am the ETERNAL."

"90. Not to commit incest with one's daughter(this is not explicitly in the Torah, but is inferred from other explicit commands that would include it)" -jewfaq.org It's in the list of 613 mitzvot

Ah, ok I see. Thanks

Still I'm a little curious that it's not mentioned explicitly where as all the others are. But eh. Just a minor quirk, I guess.

Originally Posted by Artbox

Ah, ok I see. Thanks

Still I'm a little curious that it's not mentioned explicitly where as all the others are. But eh. Just a minor quirk, I guess.

It is weird that of all the relations mentioned, father-daughter wasn't.

Wow... I just had the amazingly stupid thought "Maybe they forgot to put the father-daughter relation in the list" and then I remembered God wrote the list... >.< I'm gonna go... try and feel smart somewhere else.