Sabbath

[michael56]

I changed what you wrote to what I feel comfortable with and post it as the truth. Are we not doing the same with God? He wrote ten commandments and gave it to Moses. Why do we leave out what He said and try to convince people it is the truth?

Do not let yourself down by removing parts of scripture because you are not comfortable with it. That is not good Gandalf.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Do not let yourself down by removing parts of scripture because you are not comfortable with it. That is not good Gandalf.

Agreed, but why are we trying to leave out God's words then?

He didn't send an angel to tell Moses. He said it to him Himself. He rested on the Sabbath and asked us to keep it.

 

[michael56]

Agreed, but why are we trying to leave out God's words then?

He didn't send an angel to tell Moses. He said it to him Himself. He rested on the Sabbath and asked us to keep it.

I can't find anywhere where it is stated under the new covenant, that I a Gentile be asked to observe a Saturday Sabbath. I can find scripture that plainly states

''One person considers one day more sacred than another, another treats each day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind''

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I can't find anywhere where it is stated under the new covenant, that I a Gentile be asked to observe a Saturday Sabbath. I can find scripture that plainly states

''One person considers one day more sacred than another, another treats each day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind''

Then you should do what you feel comfortable with

 

[michael56]

Then you should do what you feel comfortable with

Amen......

 

[john832]

Doubtful. The Israelite calendar was based off of the moon, where the first of the month began a new week with the New Moon, and a Sabbath. This way of reckoning time is assumed by the calendar/system in Lev 23.



Does this include the systems that didn't/don't use a 7-day week?

Please show me where in the calendar the weekly cycle is determined by the moon. The seven day week has no atronomical observations to determine it.

 

[john832]

As yet no one has been able to explain why there is not one single requirement in the NT to observe the Sabbath, whilst there are two examples of Paul saying that it is not binding.

All the other commandments are dealt with in one way or another, but not this one. In my view this is incomprehensible if the early church did see it as necessary to observe the Sabbath. Indeed it would be a gross dereliction of duty.

Uh, here you go AGAIN...

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

word for rest here is Sabbatismos and it means the keeping of the Sabbath...

Heb 4:9 Therefore remains a keeping of a sabbath for the people of the God.

So, let me ask, are you of the opinion that any Law that is not repeated in the N.T. is stricken and no longer is in effect?

 

[john832]

TMS maaaaate,

Not keeping the Sabbath is not a sin. Nine of the ten commandments have parallels in the Law of Christ (or the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus). The fourth is completely absent. Jesus fulfilled it, and he and the rest we find in him are the sabbath of which the seventh day under the old covenant was a shadow. I've said this before but no one has replied to it. Now's your chance. Show me from the New Testament, where keeping the Sabbath was reinstated under the New Covenant.

At the same time you can perhaps let us know how you're going with the other 603 commandments.

So, anything not repeated is no longer in effect? It is not a sin?

By extension you are teaching this...

Lev 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

is not a sin because it is not repeated in the N.T. Do you really believe what you are saying?

 

[john832]

That, TMS, and your other posts are all very well but they don't change the fact that the fourth commandment is not found in the NT. The old covenant law, is now defunct. It is an ex-law. It remains no longer (I'm beginning to feel like John Cleese with the dead parrot). It is no more. It has ceased to be. Whereas nine of the ten are also part and parcel of the new covenant, the fourth commandment, as the writer to the Hebrews can hardly have made more clear, was fulfilled in Jesus, who is our true sabbath rest. Why would the shadow be necessary when the reality has come? None of anything else you said alters this fact.

You're welcome to your view, of course, but it is a mistaken one.

Oh, so you think it is not repeated? Here we go again...

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

And the word for rest is Sabbatismos and means keeping the Sabbath. The Diaglott makes this clear...

Heb 4:9 Therefore remains a keeping of a sabbath for the people of the God.

Even my Oxford KJV has that in the margin as the correct translation.

 

[john832]

Joh 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

Michael, to say people under the Old Covenant was not born again is flawed. They knew Yeshua my friend and they had a relationship with Him just like we are suppose to have one today remember, He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

Just to add to that a little, if you don't mind...

Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[john832]

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[SUP][b][/SUP][SUP]17 [/SUP]Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more

Heb10:16&17

That is being born again.

You do know that is a direct quote from Jer 31:31-34 and the word for Law in verse 33 is Torah, don't you?

So what happens is that God writes His Torah on our hearts.

 

[prove-all]

1Let us therefore [fear], lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest,
any of you should seem to come short of it.

2For unto us was the gospel preached, [as well] as unto them:
but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath,
if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day [on this wise],
And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

5And in this [place again], If they shall enter into my rest.

6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein,
and they to whom it was first preached entered not in [because of unbelief:]

7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said,
To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.



the 7th day pictures the rest we recieve in the thousand year rein,

 

[john832]

I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds

And you seem to think that internalizing the Law of God means disregarding it.

 

[john832]

Am I not a christian if I do not keep the Sabbath?
But which Sabbath, which day, what can I do, and what cannot I do? What about emergencies? What about social services like light and heating?

If I keep the sabbath what about graven images? Are these pictures of anything ie advertising, sculptures, buildings, models are included or is it more about intention and attitude?
Do not bow down to the sun, moon or stars. Now these things are still present everyday, it is ones attitude and approach that matters. Statues are used to commorate people, acts of courage, history, but are not worshiped. Photographs are used to remember events, make us feel better about ourselves.

The problem with legalism and taking this as the emphasis is it comes from the idea that rules justify you, rather rules are there for your protection and guidance. It is who you are, your relationships that justify you.

If you are born of the Spirit of God, walking in his love, accepting Jesus as you saviour, then you are justified.

The word Christian means to be Christ like. It means to do the same things Christ did...

Joh 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

And then we read this...

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

And Paul said this...

1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

John says this...

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Much is said about love. Love God and love your neighbor...

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Here we find that Paul says the Command to love our neighbor is just a summary or the Commandments...

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

In all of this, keeping the Commandments seems pretty important to being a Christian.

 

[john832]

You should have lived in biblical times, then you could have asked the leaders of the church the same question, many of whom had been Christ's disciples:

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. [SUP]25[/SUP]As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.” Acts21:24&25

Three of which are widely believe to been given in order to appease Jewish legalists who had become Christians

OK, if this is all there is, how about lying, stealing and murder for Gentiles? Not a problem, eh?

 

[john832]

Do not let yourself down by removing parts of scripture because you are not comfortable with it. That is not good Gandalf.

Uh, OK, let's not leave scripture out...

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

[JimmieD]

Please show me where in the calendar the weekly cycle is determined by the moon.

In the Ancient Israelite calendar, the month began with a Sabbath.

 

[john832]

In the Ancient Israelite calendar, the month began with a Sabbath.

Care to show me that in scripture?

The month does not begin with a Sabbath, it begins on the New Moon. The idea of a lunar Sabbath is not scriptural.

 

[JimmieD]

Care to show me that in scripture?

Lev 23 assumes the month begins on a Sabbath.

Lev 23:5 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, at twilight,[SUP] [/SUP]is a Passover offering to the Lord. 23:6 Then on the fifteenth day of the same month[SUP] [/SUP]will be the festival of unleavened bread to the Lord; seven days you must eat unleavened bread. 23:7 On the first day there will be a holy assembly for you; you must not do any regular work.

...

23:24 “Tell the Israelites, ‘In the seventh month, on the first day of the month, you must have a complete rest, a memorial announced by loud horn blasts, a holy assembly. 23:25 You must not do any regular work, but[SUP] [/SUP]you must present a gift to the Lord.’”

...

23:35 On the first day is a holy assembly; you must do no regular work.[SUP] [/SUP] 23:36 For seven days you must present a gift to the Lord. On the eighth day there is to be a holy assembly for you, and you must present a gift to the Lord. It is a solemn assembly day;[SUP] [/SUP]you must not do any regular work.

 

[john832]

Lev 23 assumes the month begins on a Sabbath.

Lev 23:5 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, at twilight,is a Passover offering to the Lord. 23:6 Then on the fifteenth day of the same monthwill be the festival of unleavened bread to the Lord; seven days you must eat unleavened bread. 23:7 On the first day there will be a holy assembly for you; you must not do any regular work.

...

23:24 “Tell the Israelites, ‘In the seventh month, on the first day of the month, you must have a complete rest, a memorial announced by loud horn blasts, a holy assembly. 23:25 You must not do any regular work, butyou must present a gift to the Lord.’”

...

23:35 On the first day is a holy assembly; you must do no regular work. 23:36 For seven days you must present a gift to the Lord. On the eighth day there is to be a holy assembly for you, and you must present a gift to the Lord. It is a solemn assembly day;you must not do any regular work.

It assumes no such thing. The Feast Days are Sabbaths but are not the weekly Sabbath. There is a difference. The Feast Days occur on certain days of certain months. The weekly Sabbath occurs on the seventh day of the week, EVERY WEEK.

You have no trouble understanding that Sunday, the first day of the week, occurs every week on the first day of the week, why is it difficult to understand that the Sabbath occurs every week on the seventh day of the week?