On these two commandments...

...hang all the law and the prophets. Matthew 22:40 (KJV)

Now, there's something I've noticed repeatedly thrown around this forum in the few months I've been spying on y'all. There's this delicious tendancy to use the translation of that verse which states:

The whole of the Law and the Prophets is summed up in these two Commandments. (Weymouth New Testament)

I find that fascinating. You know why? Because I can only find one translation that uses that 'summed up' phrase. All the rest I can find say that the Law and Prophets HANG on, or DEPEND on. The NLT says 'based on'. Why is this important? Because the law being summed up by the twin commandments to love G-d and love your neighbour has a very different connotation and meaning that the law being dependant on, based on, hanging on those two.

If thw Law and the Prophets are 'summed up' by those two, then we can conclude, as many of you appear to have done, that we can just do the sum and ignore the rest. As long as we love G-d and love our neighbour, then the law and the prophets don't matter right?

But how do we love G-d? How do we love our neighbour?

I have three good words here, and three fairly good illustrations of what I believe this verse actually means. I think we'll go with 'depends on' this time, just for variety.

Imagine these two laws are the big roofbeam of a house. Without these two laws, the universe breaks down, just as without that beam the house collapses. They are the essential governing laws of this world. Fair enough? Any takers?

Ok then. Now, say the Ten Commandments, or the nine that Yeshua named as being necessary for eternal life (Lke 10, Lke 18, Mtt 10), take your pick, are the frame of the building. Without them, the beam collapses. There's nothing to hold it up, no strength in your house. Still with me?

So now we have our beams in place, we have a pretty good, sturdy construction, right? It's built on a firm foundation, sturdy solid beams, even some shelter and protection from above. But what's missing? You could leave the house as it is and not affect it's contruction at all (though you might want to treat the beams, exposed wood is not good :P ), but it won't exactly be the most comfortable home. You need walls, doors, windows, maybe some insulation. The building is solid, but it's not complete. There are good things to be added yet. Things you can live without, sure, but important things nonetheless.

I would submit that the rest of the law and the prophets fills in those gaps between the beams and makes the house snug and watertight. They turn this bare, stark construction into a beautiful comfortable home. Sure we can avoid them and I don't think they're necessary to your salvation, but why would anyone willingly forgo this beautiful blessing?

[HumbleSaint]

For this is the love of God, that we keep His Commandments and His Commandments are not grevious 1 John 5:3

[livingbygrace]

Originally Posted by Ma-maa

...hang all the law and the prophets. Matthew 22:40 (KJV)

Now, there's something I've noticed repeatedly thrown around this forum in the few months I've been spying on y'all. There's this delicious tendancy to use the translation of that verse which states:

The whole of the Law and the Prophets is summed up in these two Commandments. (Weymouth New Testament)

I find that fascinating. You know why? Because I can only find one translation that uses that 'summed up' phrase. All the rest I can find say that the Law and Prophets HANG on, or DEPEND on. The NLT says 'based on'. Why is this important? Because the law being summed up by the twin commandments to love G-d and love your neighbour has a very different connotation and meaning that the law being dependant on, based on, hanging on those two.

If thw Law and the Prophets are 'summed up' by those two, then we can conclude, as many of you appear to have done, that we can just do the sum and ignore the rest. As long as we love G-d and love our neighbour, then the law and the prophets don't matter right?

But how do we love G-d? How do we love our neighbour?

I have three good words here, and three fairly good illustrations of what I believe this verse actually means. I think we'll go with 'depends on' this time, just for variety.

Imagine these two laws are the big roofbeam of a house. Without these two laws, the universe breaks down, just as without that beam the house collapses. They are the essential governing laws of this world. Fair enough? Any takers?

Ok then. Now, say the Ten Commandments, or the nine that Yeshua named as being necessary for eternal life (Lke 10, Lke 18, Mtt 10), take your pick, are the frame of the building. Without them, the beam collapses. There's nothing to hold it up, no strength in your house. Still with me?

So now we have our beams in place, we have a pretty good, sturdy construction, right? It's built on a firm foundation, sturdy solid beams, even some shelter and protection from above. But what's missing? You could leave the house as it is and not affect it's contruction at all (though you might want to treat the beams, exposed wood is not good :P ), but it won't exactly be the most comfortable home. You need walls, doors, windows, maybe some insulation. The building is solid, but it's not complete. There are good things to be added yet. Things you can live without, sure, but important things nonetheless.

I would submit that the rest of the law and the prophets fills in those gaps between the beams and makes the house snug and watertight. They turn this bare, stark construction into a beautiful comfortable home. Sure we can avoid them and I don't think they're necessary to your salvation, but why would anyone willingly forgo this beautiful blessing?

With respect I believe you are missing the point. I dearly love my elderly Mother. When I go to visit her I do not have to think of any commandment because I love her.
I do not have to think about honouring her, or stealing from her, or bearing false witness against her, or murdering her etc. Therefore if we love someone we do not need to think of commandments. They in themselvews become unimportant because of our love for people.
If we love God with all of our heart, body, soul and mind we will keep the second and third commandment also, because we love God. So it is true. If we love God and love our neighbour we fulfill the law.

The Apostle Paul said. 'All we need is faith working through love.

To have to concentrate on commandments would be ignoring the cross of Christ I believe. Remember, one of them condemned the Apostle Paul. We live by faith in Jesus, not the law(which includes the commandments. What did Paul say about this?

Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Ratrher we uphold the law. Rom3:31

Some people know I love to defend Torah; in fact it’s one of my favs. But nevertheless, that does not minimize the truth of Torah for today.
There are three ways to view Torah:
1. Torah is past and over.
2. Torah is valid for the Jews only.
3. Torah is valid for all mankind today and always.
We stand on number three (3) "Torah is valid for all mankind today and always," because we believe there is no other biblical way to view it, for these reasons.
1. To accept number one (1) would mean that G-d changes His ways, which is impossible, for He said, "I am YHVH, I change not," Malachi 3:6, and "I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one small letter or one punctuation mark will in any way be removed from the Torah," Matthew 5:18.
2. To accept number two (2) would mean G-d has a double standard, which cannot be since it is written, "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear Elohim, and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of mankind, for Elohim will bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it is good, or whether it is evil." Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, and "The soul who acts presumptuously, whether he is born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproaches YHVH, and that soul shall be cut off from among his people, " Numbers 15:30.
That leaves us with number three (3). The usual opposition to number three comes from misunderstanding both the nature of Torah and the principles behind it. The key to understanding the truth is this:
1. Establish first that G-d does not change.
2. If you believe that Yeshua is G-d in the flesh (which we do) then you must accept that His own "hand" invented Torah and He cannot conflict with Himself. If He is the same "yesterday, today and forever" then His thoughts are the same at all times.
3. Establish that the foundation for the New Covenant is the former (Old) Covenants. Not visa versa. If Moses is the house, and Yeshua is the builder, why would Yeshua tear down His own house(Hebrews 3:2-4)?
4. None of G-d's covenants can conflict or contradict, so the only thing that is truth is that understanding which allows for unity between them, without removing any of them.
5. G-d blessed Israel with His truth, and as a just and loving G-d He wants all people to have what He gave Israel. That is why G-d commanded Israel to be a witness of His commandments to the nations (Isaiah 43:9,10)?

[MyBagsRPacked]

I also believe you miss the point. By "Summing" things up, it merely equates to this:

1. No other gods before God
2. No graven images
3. No taking God's name in vain
4.Keep the Sabbath, the SEVENTH day, HOLY....

These first four commandments "Sum" up how we are to show our love for God, New testement version of the first part of the Law of Love...

5. Honour your mother and father
6. No murder
7. No adultery
8. No stealing
9. No lying
10. No coveting, better known as envy

The last 6 commandments sum up how we show love and respect for others, thus completing the Law of Love.

[livingbygrace]

Originally Posted by HumbleSaint

For this is the love of God, that we keep His Commandments and His Commandments are not grevious 1 John 5:3

Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us we3 have confidence before God and receive from Him anything we ask, because we obey His commands and do what pleases Him. And this is His command: to believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as He commanded us. 1John3:21-23

Originally Posted by livingbygrace

With respect I believe you are missing the point. I dearly love my elderly Mother. When I go to visit her I do not have to think of any commandment because I love her.
I do not have to think about honouring her, or stealing from her, or bearing false witness against her, or murdering her etc. Therefore if we love someone we do not need to think of commandments. They in themselvews become unimportant because of our love for people.

And yet all the same, breaking the commandments is not loving. You may not have to be concious of it, but they doesn't change the fact that you are indeed showing love you your mother by obeying the commandments and honouring her, not murdering her, etc.

If we love God with all of our heart, body, soul and mind we will keep the second and third commandment also, because we love God. So it is true. If we love God and love our neighbour we fulfill the law.

Yay for making my point! If we love G-d, we will obey his commands. We show love by obeying the commands. If we are loving, we are obeying the comands.

The Apostle Paul said. 'All we need is faith working through love.

To have to concentrate on commandments would be ignoring the cross of Christ I believe. Remember, one of them condemned the Apostle Paul. We live by faith in Jesus, not the law(which includes the commandments. What did Paul say about this?

Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Ratrher we uphold the law. Rom3:31

Why would concentrating on obeying G-ds comands be ignoring the cross of Christ? Yeshua himself said, "If you love me, you will obey my commands." (Jhn 14:15).

We don't keep the law to be saved, but because we are saved.

[MyBagsRPacked]

Can I ask why you refuse to type the word God, ma-maa?

[livingbygrace]

Originally Posted by MyBagsRPacked

I also believe you miss the point. By "Summing" things up, it merely equates to this:

1. No other gods before God
2. No graven images
3. No taking God's name in vain
4.Keep the Sabbath, the SEVENTH day, HOLY....

These first four commandments "Sum" up how we are to show our love for God, New testement version of the first part of the Law of Love...

5. Honour your mother and father
6. No murder
7. No adultery
8. No stealing
9. No lying
10. No coveting, better known as envy

The last 6 commandments sum up how we show love and respect for others, thus completing the Law of Love.

I don't believe I miss the point at all. Those who have to concentrate on commandments are missing the essential Gospel of the New Testament.
The law can only make us concious of our sin. Rom3:20 if we are sincere. By dying to the law(as the Apostle Paul said he did) we find ourselves far more upholding it.

I read an article of a Godly man. He said.

This may sound blasphemous to some, but I ignore the Ten Commandments
But

I love God
I honour my Father and my Mother
I do not steal
I do not bear false witness
I do not murder
I do not covet
I do not commit adultery
When I am abused and maligned I do not reply.

It isn't knowing and focusing on ther Ten Commandments that will help us follow the good laws of God. it is by looking to Jesus and trusting in Him, and relying on the Holy Spirits power. That is the way to live as Christ taught us.

[HumbleSaint]

Originally Posted by livingbygrace

Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us we3 have confidence before God and receive from Him anything we ask, because we obey His commands and do what pleases Him. And this is His command: to believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as He commanded us. 1John3:21-23

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself Romand 13:8-9

[MyBagsRPacked]

Originally Posted by HumbleSaint

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself Romand 13:8-9

romans is so great...love that book

[joint-heir]

ASIDE FROM CUP OF RUIN
AND I DONT AGREE WITH HIM ON EVERYTHING 100%
AS HE SHOULD NOT AGREE WITH ME

BUT
I AM BEGINNING TO WONDER
WHAT IT IS YOU AUSSIES ARE BEING TAUGHT OVER THERE
I HAVE SEEN MAHOGONY SNAIL AND OTHERS
ARGUE LIKE YOUR RUNNING INTO A BRICK WALL
WITHOUT EVER CONSIDERRING
YOU COULD BE WRONG
NONE OF US HAS ALL THE ANSWERS
BUT
SOMETIMES IF WE TAKE THE KNOWLEDGE OF EVERYONE
AND PUT THEM TOGETHER
WE ALL MIGHT BECOME A BIT BRIGHTER
SO PLEASE I BEG
AS OTHERS GIVE THEIR TAKE ON THE ISSUE YOU ARE SPEAKING ABOUT
THAT EVEN YOUR OWN IDEAS AND PASTORS YOUR LISTENING TO
CAN BE WRONG
OR NOT
HAVE THE COMPLETE INFORMATION

MAY GOD KEEP AND BLESS YOU

[livingbygrace]

Originally Posted by MyBagsRPacked

romans is so great...love that book

Romans is my favourite book too, followed by Galatians

Originally Posted by joint-heir

ASIDE FROM CUP OF RUIN
AND I DONT AGREE WITH HIM ON EVERYTHING 100%
AS HE SHOULD NOT AGREE WITH ME

BUT
I AM BEGINNING TO WONDER
WHAT IT IS YOU AUSSIES ARE BEING TAUGHT OVER THERE
I HAVE SEEN MAHOGONY SNAIL AND OTHERS
ARGUE LIKE YOUR RUNNING INTO A BRICK WALL
WITHOUT EVER CONSIDERRING
YOU COULD BE WRONG
NONE OF US HAS ALL THE ANSWERS
BUT
SOMETIMES IF WE TAKE THE KNOWLEDGE OF EVERYONE
AND PUT THEM TOGETHER
WE ALL MIGHT BECOME A BIT BRIGHTER
SO PLEASE I BEG
AS OTHERS GIVE THEIR TAKE ON THE ISSUE YOU ARE SPEAKING ABOUT
THAT EVEN YOUR OWN IDEAS AND PASTORS YOUR LISTENING TO
CAN BE WRONG
OR NOT
HAVE THE COMPLETE INFORMATION

MAY GOD KEEP AND BLESS YOU

Hahaha. If you look closely at my flag you'll see it's missing a couple stars from Mahogany's. That's because I'm not Australian

AS to the rest, I was born and raised in a normal conservative Christian homeschooling family, and was taught all my life, as you probably were, that the Law is basically void and that we are no longer to follow it. Thankfully, I was also taught by my parents the art of critical thinking, and in recent years have done much study on my own. Over the last two to three years, I've discovered that much of what I previously believed was in fact wrong, and that most things we simply don't know all the answers too. I certainly don't have the correct answers to everything, I am merely trying to present another point of veiw, sharing my belief with you in love and respect. I have never claimed to know everything, that would be utter folly.

MyBags, of course you can ask, I don't bite hard :P

I hyphenate the word 'god' when I am using it to refer to the One True G-d out of my respect for him and for certain of my Jewish brothers that I spend a lot of time with. See the 'Just one question' thread by Nuhen for a fuller explaination.

[joint-heir]

Originally Posted by Ma-maa

Hahaha. If you look closely at my flag you'll see it's missing a couple stars from Mahogany's. That's because I'm not Australian

AS to the rest, I was born and raised in a normal conservative Christian homeschooling family, and was taught all my life, as you probably were, that the Law is basically void and that we are no longer to follow it. Thankfully, I was also taught by my parents the art of critical thinking, and in recent years have done much study on my own. Over the last two to three years, I've discovered that much of what I previously believed was in fact wrong, and that most things we simply don't know all the answers too. I certainly don't have the correct answers to everything, I am merely trying to present another point of veiw, sharing my belief with you in love and respect. I have never claimed to know everything, that would be utter folly.

MyBags, of course you can ask, I don't bite hard :P

I hyphenate the word 'god' when I am using it to refer to the One True G-d out of my respect for him and for certain of my Jewish brothers that I spend a lot of time with. See the 'Just one question' thread by Nuhen for a fuller explaination.

SORRY
IT LOOKS THE SAME
AFTER EVERYTHING YOU SAY
THE SAME LOOKING FLAG
KEEPS COMING BACK AT YOU OVER AND OVER AGAIN
YOU BEGIN TO SAY OH NO...NOT AGAIN ...LOL

Originally Posted by joint-heir

SORRY
IT LOOKS THE SAME
AFTER EVERYTHING YOU SAY
THE SAME LOOKING FLAG
KEEPS COMING BACK AT YOU OVER AND OVER AGAIN
YOU BEGIN TO SAY OH NO...NOT AGAIN ...LOL

*raises eyebrow*

I'm pretty sure if I said something like that about the American flag I'd be in deep touble about now. Try to read a person's words and not just judge them by their flag, hmm?

This is one of the few times when the Greek becomes difficult to translate. The word "hang" is in the middle voice. Active voice is "the law hangs on these two commandments." The passive voice is "the law is hung on by these two commandments." The middle voice becomes intransitive--a verb whose action is not transferred to the object but terminates in the subject. Thus the law is hung. The law is the subject. It is neither hanging on the two commandments nor are the two hanging upon it, rather it is simply complete or done (hung up). Like, these two commands being said, the entire law and prophets are complete.

[MyBagsRPacked]

Originally Posted by charisenexcelcis

This is one of the few times when the Greek becomes difficult to translate. The word "hang" is in the middle voice. Active voice is "the law hangs on these two commandments." The passive voice is "the law is hung on by these two commandments." The middle voice becomes intransitive--a verb whose action is not transferred to the object but terminates in the subject. Thus the law is hung. The law is the subject. It is neither hanging on the two commandments nor are the two hanging upon it, rather it is simply complete or done (hung up). Like, these two commands being said, the entire law and prophets are complete.

A lot of fancy talk to say what? lol

Another way of looking at it:

If "all the Law and the Prophets" hang from "these two commandments" (love G-d, love your neighbor), then every single charge, command, statute, and law within the Torah, is within the category of love G-d, and in the category of love your neighbor.

This means, there is not a single command or instruction in Torah that is not in the category of loving G-d or your neighbor! This means from the most mundane, to the most obvious, all the commands and instruction in Torah are G-d's teaching and instruction in how to love G-d and love others! What follower of Yeshua wouldn't want to know that?

Who here wouldn't want a perfect instruction book on how to deal with every single situation in life that comes up? Who here wouldn't want to have some standard by which to judge their feelings by?

Love is not arbitrary when it comes to G-d's standard of love. What men value is often not what G-d values. Wouldn't you as a disciple of the Master desire to know intimately what G-d values? Obviously as believers we (hopefully) listen to the leading of the Holy Spirit, yet how can one know if they are being led by the Spirit and not something else if they don't know the Word of G-d?

Yeshua is our perfect role model in how to love G-d and others. If you are a believer, then he lives in you... and he, a Torah-obedient, perfectly righteous, Jewish Messiah, also desires to live through you. Isn't that exciting? What does that paradigm do for you? How does it make you view the entire Word of G-d now? Does it make you want to dust it off to want to learn more about our perfect Messiah? After all, if he's perfectly obedient to G-d's Instruction Book on How to Love G-d and Your Neighbor, wouldn't understanding Who Yeshua is be found in that very book? I encourage you to look at the Torah to understand more about Messiah, and thus understand just how exactly he wants you to follow after him. Pretending to know, or "feeling" your way through it, is not better than actually reading it for yourself.

Love is a verb. It is defined, and G-d in his mercy doesn't leave us guessing how He defines it in every situation in life. He's given us an instruction manual, and the Role Model.

After all, Yeshua said, "if you believed Moses you would believe Me, for Moses wrote about Me" - he sure did. There wasn't a thing that Moses wrote that wasn't about the Messiah in some way. If you want to know how, I encourage you to ask of every thing you read in the Torah, "what does this have to do with the Messiah?" and let the Spirit of G-d lead you to the answers.

Shalom,

Israel
jerusalemcouncil.org

Originally Posted by MyBagsRPacked

A lot of fancy talk to say what? lol

lol. Yes, it sounds like taking a drop of truth and evaporating it into a dense fog, doesn't it? All I can say is read it carefully and if it isn't helpful don't stay up late worrying about it.