Often misunderstood part of the Bible (1 John 1:8-19)

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Jason0047

Jason0047

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#41
Jul 22, 2014
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#41
Sophia said:
EG was referring to 1 John 5, about the sin that leads to death being physical death, like Ananias and Saphira.
1 John 1:9 isn't dealing with death, so how could EG interpret it as dealing with physical death?
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The 1st epistle (Which would include 1 John 5) makes no mention of physical death. Read the entire epistle. The contrasting points made by John are spiritual and not physical ones. You will find no reference to physical death in John' s 1st epistle. Ananais and Sapphira died spiritually because fear came upon the entire churcn and all who heard it. If a believer dies, it is either a time of rejoicing in the fact they will be with the Lord or they will feel sad because they will miss their friend. No believer actually fears their own physical body. Jesus says, fear not him who can destroy the body, but fear him who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna (i.e. the Lake of Fire).

God chastises those whom He loves, even to the point of death. If they were not His Child, He would not chastise them so. 1 Peter explains this clearly.
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I am not denying that God does not chastise those who are His. But this leads to confession and repentance and not to a belief that makes one think they can sin and still be saved (Whereby they ignore what 1 John 1:9 says).
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#42
Dec 12, 2013
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#42
Sophia said:
Fear of condemnation brought upon those who have no fear of condemnation? Sounds contradictory.
Fear of chastisement from the active sovereign Almighty is certainly enough to warrant fear.
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BINGO...............!
 
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Sophia

Guest
#43
#43
Jason0047 said:
Many Eternal Security proponents does not believe it is necessary to confess in order to be forgiven of sin like the passage says. For it says, "if we confess our sin he is faithful and just to forgive us....." 1 John 1:9 does not say, "if we have a mental acknowledgement that Jesus is our Savior, etc."

In other words, they are not going to the Physician in order to be healed properly. They are trying to seek forgiveness their own way instead of what the Word of God says. Therein lies the difference.
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This is your ever present accusation of eternal security, and yet it is not accurate.
This is the very strawman that is the basis of your doctrine.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#44
Jul 22, 2014
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#44
Sophia said:
Fear of condemnation brought upon those who have no fear of condemnation? Sounds contradictory.
Fear of chastisement from the active sovereign Almighty is certainly enough to warrant fear.
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No, that doesn't make any sense. People do evil all the time and live perfectly good lives. Believers are persecuted to the point of death. Chastisement is not really that big of a deterrent for believers who think they can get away with sin. For unbelievers suffer the same challenges in this life. So no. I am not buying it.
 
Utah

Utah

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#45
Dec 1, 2014
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dcontroversal said:
Jesus paid my sin debt when he hung on the tree, my sin was laid to his charge and his righteousness has been imputed unto me by faith......He stands non stop mediating for me always......!
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Amen! The Bible in a nutshell. Thank you Jesus!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#46
Dec 12, 2013
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#46
Sophia said:
This is your ever present accusation of eternal security, and yet it is not accurate.
This is the very strawman that is the basis of your doctrine.
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Actually one of many.....!
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#47
Jul 22, 2014
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#47
Utah said:
Amen! The Bible in a nutshell. Thank you Jesus!
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Thank him for what? So that a believer can just go back to living the way they used to? If that is the case, then why doesn't God just force salvation on everyone then? For surely with an OSAS type belief, he is forcing his salvation on people after they accept Him. For once a person has done that prayer, they are forever saved and cannot turn back. They are forever saved, whether they like it or not.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#48
Dec 12, 2013
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#48
Jason0047 said:
No, that doesn't make any sense. People do evil all the time and live perfectly good lives. Believers are persecuted to the point of death. Chastisement is not really that big of a deterrent for believers who think they can get away with sin. For unbelievers suffer the same challenges in this life. So no. I am not buying it.
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God thinks it is.....I suggest coming online with God and his view......as opposed to the man made salvation lite version that you teach Jason!
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

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#49
Jul 22, 2014
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#49
I mean, think about it. Who is God going to honor more? The guy who just ignores their sin and believes on Jesus, or the guy who honestly wanted to do what was right with the Lord? Would not God be immoral for allowing his believers to get away with evil (i.e. a sin and still be saved doctrine)?
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

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#50
Jul 22, 2014
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dcontroversal said:
God thinks it is.....I suggest coming online with God and his view......as opposed to the man made salvation lite version that you teach Jason!
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Technically we are talking about 1 John 1:9 here. Why do you think it is talking about physical death? How are you forgiven of sin if you are already forgiven?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#51
Dec 12, 2013
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#51
Jason0047 said:
Thank him for what? So that a believer can just go back to living the way they used to? If that is the case, then why doesn't God just force salvation on everyone then? For surely with an OSAS type belief, he is forcing his salvation on people after they accept Him. For once a person has done that prayer, they are forever saved and cannot turn back. They are forever saved, whether they like it or not.
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I have a hard time understanding how you can base your beliefs upon such logic........serious.......!
The bolded above shows a lack of understanding and contradicts what the bible teaches Jason.....!
 
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Sophia

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#52
#52
Jason0047 said:
I am not denying that God does not chastise those who are His. But this leads to confession and repentance and not to a belief that makes one think they can sin and still be saved (Whereby they ignore what 1 John 1:9 says).
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"Makes one think they can sin and still be saved".
Strawman, yet again. Logical disconnect, because you are not listening to the testimony of those who hold to eternal security.
Do you not realize that you yourself are saying that a person can "sin and still be saved". What leads us to confession and repentance?
Having love for God and fearing of His disappointment and chastising,
or fear of being removed from His love and regaining condemnation?

False motive for confession and repentance means it is a false confession and useless repentance.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#53
Dec 12, 2013
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#53
Jason0047 said:
Technically we are talking about 1 John 1:9 here. Why do you think it is talking about physical death? How are you forgiven of sin if you are already forgiven?
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Jason, my reply was in response your statement of chastisement not being a deterrent for a saved child of God and how that totally contradicts God's view of it and use of it......so....please keep my comments in context!

Originally Posted by Jason0047
No, that doesn't make any sense. People do evil all the time and live perfectly good lives. Believers are persecuted to the point of death. Chastisement is not really that big of a deterrent for believers who think they can get away with sin. For unbelievers suffer the same challenges in this life. So no. I am not buying it.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#54
Jul 22, 2014
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#54
Sophia said:
This is your ever present accusation of eternal security, and yet it is not accurate.
This is the very strawman that is the basis of your doctrine.
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It is not a blind accusation. It is a reality of my experience with talking with many people who do believe they can sin and still be saved. People on this forum have already admitted that they don't believe confession is not necessary for salvation already. I have also talked with Antinomians on another forum (and in person) that have open admitted that they can do evil or sin and not repent and still be saved when they die.
 
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Sophia

Guest
#55
#55
Jason0047 said:
No, that doesn't make any sense. People do evil all the time and live perfectly good lives. Believers are persecuted to the point of death. Chastisement is not really that big of a deterrent for believers who think they can get away with sin. For unbelievers suffer the same challenges in this life. So no. I am not buying it.
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Read 1st Peter. Unbelievers do not receive the chastisment of God. He stores up His judgement upon them.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#56
Jul 22, 2014
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#56
dcontroversal said:
Jason, my reply was in response your statement of chastisement not being a deterrent for a saved child of God and how that totally contradicts God's view of it and use of it......so....please keep my comments in context!

Originally Posted by Jason0047
No, that doesn't make any sense. People do evil all the time and live perfectly good lives. Believers are persecuted to the point of death. Chastisement is not really that big of a deterrent for believers who think they can get away with sin. For unbelievers suffer the same challenges in this life. So no. I am not buying it.
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It's not a reality for false believers who think they can get away with sin. A true believer who loves God will want to do what pleases the Lord. The chastisement is a reminder to them so as to please God. It is a wake up call and it is not so much in what they love in this world. Christians offer their bodies as a willing sacrifice unto God. They are bought and paid for with a price. So what is their life anyways if it is not God's? What is truly chastisement? Did not Job suffer and lose all things? Did Job have some kind of sin in his life? No. The point is that chastisement is not a key factor for a believer who wants to love their sin more than those believers who love God more.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

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#57
Jul 22, 2014
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#57
Sophia said:
Read 1st Peter. Unbelievers do not receive the chastisment of God. He stores up His judgement upon them.
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I understand chastisement is for believers only. So I was not saying unbelievers are chastised. The point I was trying to make is that the false believer who loves their sin more than they do God will not be deterred by any chastisement by God because they will just think to themselves that even unbelievers go thru the same challenges in this life that they would potentially go thru (By any type of chastisement).
 
Q

quickened77

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#58
#58
Jason0047 said:
No, that doesn't make any sense. People do evil all the time and live perfectly good lives. Believers are persecuted to the point of death. Chastisement is not really that big of a deterrent for believers who think they can get away with sin. For unbelievers suffer the same challenges in this life. So no. I am not buying it.
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Heb 12

[8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#59
Jul 22, 2014
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#59
Sophia said:
"Makes one think they can sin and still be saved".
Strawman, yet again. Logical disconnect, because you are not listening to the testimony of those who hold to eternal security.
Do you not realize that you yourself are saying that a person can "sin and still be saved". What leads us to confession and repentance?
Having love for God and fearing of His disappointment and chastising,
or fear of being removed from His love and regaining condemnation?

False motive for confession and repentance means it is a false confession and useless repentance.
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No. Most who believe in Eternal Security do not believe CONTINUED confession of sin is necessary for salvation. They believe once you are saved, there is nothing you can do to remove yourself from Christ. This I believe is a dark and evil teaching.
 
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Jason0047

Jason0047

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#60
Jul 22, 2014
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#60
quickened77 said:
Heb 12

[8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
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Right. The person who thinks they can sin and still be saved is not going to be chastised because they don't believe they are doing anything wrong.
 
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