How do you guys do this?

[DesiredHaven]

Okay, I was always curious bout this and how each church might do this in respects to the least esteemed among themselves (and in matters pertaining to this life).

1 Cr 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

1 Cr 6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

Like how are they which are the least esteemed in your church chosen, and set to judge (between the brethren) and in what types of things have you seen such judge between them that you might have witnessed?

Just curious, how does that work?

 

[oldhermit]

Okay, I was always curious bout this and how each church might do this in respects to the least esteemed among themselves (and in matters pertaining to this life).

1 Cr 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

1 Cr 6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

Like how are they which are the least esteemed in your church chosen, and set to judge (between the brethren) and in what types of things have you seen such judge between them that you might have witnessed?

Just curious, how does that work?

Those who had no standing in the Church were those judges who were outside the Church. Verse four is a question, to the Corinthian Church. Paul was asking them why they were doing such a shameful thing.

 

[DesiredHaven]

Those who had no standing in the Church were those judges who were outside the Church. Verse four is a question, to the Corinthian Church. Paul was asking them why they were doing such a shameful thing.

So they arent to judge matters between brethren? Thats the shameful thing?

I mean because he says to set them to do so no?

Like he didnt say to set those who are highly esteemed in respects to things of God but rather the least esteemed in respects to the of things in this life no?

Am I not getting it?

 

[oldhermit]

So they arent to judge matters between brethren? Thats the shameful thing?

I mean because he says to set them to do so no?

Like he didnt say to set those who are highly esteemed in respects to things of God but rather the least esteemed in respects to the of things in this life no?

Am I not getting it?

I am not sure what translation you are reading here. You are reading verse four as if it were a statement. Verse four is a question. Paul is asking them why they were doing this. The issue was that those in the Church were taking their brothers to civil court rather than allowing those in the Church to judge these matters for them. Paul was telling them they should not be doing this.

 

[DesiredHaven]

I am not sure what translation you are reading here. You are reading verse four as if it were a statement. Verse four is a question. Paul is asking them why they were doing this. The issue was that those in the Church were taking their brothers to civil court rather than allowing those in the Church to judge these matters for them. Paul was telling them they should not be doing this.

Its the KJV OldHermit, this is how its reading to me




I was asking how do they set those up IN the church to judge matters RATHER then outside of it

I thought you were disagreeing with doing that on the inside, or am I still misunderstanding, because I just wanted to know how churches would practice this set up within the church itself (not without)

 

[oldhermit]

Its the KJV OldHermit, this is how its reading to me

View attachment 102049


I was asking how do they set those up IN the church to judge matters RATHER then outside of it

I thought you were disagreeing with doing that on the inside, or am I still misunderstanding, because I just wanted to know how churches would pratice this set up within the church itself (not without)

What Paul was trying to get them to see was the foolishness of taking their issues between one another to the courts outside the Church. This would be tantamount to setting them up in the Church. What do the outside courts know about judging matters of righteousness between those in the Church? What they were doing was wrong.

 

[DesiredHaven]

What Paul was trying to get them to see was the foolishness of taking their issues between one another to the courts outside the Church. This would be tantamount to setting them up in the Church. What do the outside courts know about judging matters of righteousness between those in the Church? What they were doing was wrong.

Yes I realize this, and so I am asking how folks (at their churches here) set up those that are least esteemed in their churches to judge such things (within them) not from without.

Like how do they practice this (for real)

 

[Nautilus]

Yes I realize this, and so I am asking how folks (at their churches here) set up those that are least esteemed in their churches to judge such things (within them) not from without.

Like how do they practice this (for real)

yeah...we just don't do this.

 

[DesiredHaven]

yeah...we just don't do this.

Okay thanks

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Okay, I was always curious bout this and how each church might do this in respects to the least esteemed among themselves (and in matters pertaining to this life).

1 Cr 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

1 Cr 6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

Like how are they which are the least esteemed in your church chosen, and set to judge (between the brethren) and in what types of things have you seen such judge between them that you might have witnessed?

Just curious, how does that work?

1 Corinthians 6:4-6 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.

The shame was brethren taking offenses through civil courts. Paul asked them why they couldn't find some other brethren in the church who could help settle matters.

It's along the lines of Matthew 18:15-18 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

That's quite straightforward. The churches I've known handle the tell it unto the church by taking a matter to some deacons on the church board, maybe put on the agenda for a full board meeting, maybe just involving local pastors, which hopefully settles a matter without involving the whole congregation.

 

[Jeff_56]

Okay, I was always curious bout this and how each church might do this in respects to the least esteemed among themselves (and in matters pertaining to this life).
1 Cr 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
1 Cr 6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
Like how are they which are the least esteemed in your church chosen, and set to judge (between the brethren) and in what types of things have you seen such judge between them that you might have witnessed? Just curious, how does that work?

like some would say, it doesn't. churches don't do what scripture says to do.

the remnant do. you won't find the remnant leading churches. only in home assemblies probably, and still rare, because they have been crucified with christ -- they don't do what 'church goers' or 'members' do. ---
they live like christ, and not like men of the world.
if you ever meet them, hopefully you'll recognize them. most churches and also most people make fun of them or scoff at them.... that's how it is, everywhere. a few are converted and become one in the body of christ, just as the father and the son are one. but not many.

 

[DesiredHaven]

[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
1 Corinthians 6:4-6 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.

The shame was brethren taking offenses through civil courts. Paul asked them why they couldn't find some other brethren in the church who could help settle matters.

It's along the lines of Matthew 18:15-18 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

That's quite straightforward. The churches I've known handle the tell it unto the church by taking a matter to some deacons on the church board, maybe put on the agenda for a full board meeting, maybe just involving local pastors, which hopefully settles a matter without involving the whole congregation.

Yes I agree with that and that they should not have to go to a civil court outside the church to resolve something between brethren.

I am assuming that it could have possibly been more of a problem after the initial "brother go to brother" (alone) part. I would at least find that very believable today where folks shrug off accountability (or responsibility) and typically no one wants to get too involved after that point (judging it as none of their business) verses what Paul seemed to be pointing out. Folks might seem faster to fetch the pastor (almost immediately) unwittingly fulfilling that "no wise man among you" verse I suppose. Or at least it seems like it.

He does adress both though, "brother goes to brother" but without (unto the law) when perhaps one should take the wrong but still follow it up as Jesus laid out (perhaps for the best possible chance to recconcile brethren) and have somewhere else to go (within and among his own) to do that. But there didnt seem to be one wise enough person among themselves (they would likely just ignore the situation) or ban one of them from the church or something. But there might not be much there to asist brethren in these matters between the brothen.

Thats probably what they ended up doing though. After one had fault with the other (and perhaps had gone to other alone) but nothing was resolved rather then take it to two or three others (perhaps for others lack of interest or their own passivity in respects to it) maybe they began going outside of the church in order for their disputes to be resolved (between them) because they could find some kind of judgment (at all) maybe?

Like it seems more like the church was not getting involved so much after the first layer of instructions Jesus had given them. The initial two (in whatever dispute they might be in) at least as I am thinking of it decides to just go outside the church altogether (because there was not a wise man among them to their own shame) LOL

That is why I am asking, like how many churches practice this, and in what way do they? Have they been a part of this? Have helped in resolving things themselves, has it worked, what have they seen.

I suppose you are correct there, telling it to the church would be to work upwards (towards the deacons) maybe, or at least from the least esteemed on upwards

If I have that correct. I used to divide things between those things that pertain to God and those things that pertained to the things of this life. And those same things with those esteemed highly for the works sake (such as those who labor in word and doctrine) worthy of double honour and those who are perhpas least esteemed needing to put into practice judging other matters (faithfully) in the lesser things, the things pertaining to this life and exercising their judgments in less important matters and growing from there as they do so.

Thanks Word_Swordsman

 

[DesiredHaven]

like some would say, it doesn't. churches don't do what scripture says to do.

the remnant do. you won't find the remnant leading churches. only in home assemblies probably, and still rare, because they have been crucified with christ -- they don't do what 'church goers' or 'members' do. ---
they live like christ, and not like men of the world.
if you ever meet them, hopefully you'll recognize them. most churches and also most people make fun of them or scoff at them.... that's how it is, everywhere. a few are converted and become one in the body of christ, just as the father and the son are one. but not many.

Hi Jeff, I am not understanding, are you implying the elect do or dont practice what Jesus laid out? Im not quite sure which by your post here. Can you clarify a bit more?

 

[MarcR]

DesiredHaven,

While I consider it a major failing,I have not yet found any church, in any denomination, which practices Biblical Church Discipline, or Biblical conflict resolution. I have seen individuals request and submit to Biblical conflict resolution; but never has it been a regular practice anywhere I have been--- and I have been around a bit.

 

[DesiredHaven]

DesiredHaven,

While I consider it a major failing,I have not yet found any church, in any denomination, which practices Biblical Church Discipline, or Biblical conflict resolution. I have seen individuals request and submit to Biblical conflict resolution; but never has it been a regular practice anywhere I have been--- and I have been around a bit.

I hear you MarcR, me neither, I never saw it myself. Its like there was no participation (for the most part) in something like this and you get the feeling to bring it up (as a regular practice in reality) would be perceived as insane or something

Its like there is still no wise among us, no not one (or something).

I love your honesty in things, God bless you MarcR

 

[Fate]

This is question could be a research project. I am sure most churchs do not handle matters this way. And some that have I am sure there were abuses, the Salem witch trials comes to mind.. But in cases where matters are handled this way,today, I would think that perhaps monastaries, smaller sects, communes, possibly the Amish, handle disputes in this manner. And I think that at times this sort of power can be corruptable the Branch Davidians come to mind. I think that Paul was hoping that disputes would be kept with in the confines of the early church's (what happens in the church stays in the church) It would not have looked well to the larger community, if early members who were supposed to show love and kindness to one another where seen as being no better than themselves. Not a good testimony.

 

[Jeff_56]

I hear you MarcR, me neither, I never saw it myself. Its like there was no participation (for the most part) in something like this and you get the feeling to bring it up (as a regular practice in reality) would be perceived as insane or something

Its like there is still no wise among us, no not one (or something).

I love your honesty in things, God bless you MarcR

Hi Jeff, I am not understanding, are you implying the elect do or dont practice what Jesus laid out? Im not quite sure which by your post here. Can you clarify a bit more?

the elect, the remnant, do live as Jesus said to ..... the chruches do not.... the remnant and the elect (may be the same, but in any case) the remnant and the elect are usually not found in the chruches.

when a group is set up as a business, it acts like a business. not at all like the body of God's people.

likewise, many arguments you see on this forum, is not from a foundation of truth, but from many different people in various times of being set free from deceptive errors , and most have gotten only a little way out of the deceptions .

when you find (and see in person; not online) the people of God who have laid down their lives, and have not taken their lives back up again for themselves,
then, God Willing, you will see the difference in those who are truly God's and those who aren't.

yes, like MarcR posted, hardly any chruch, if any, lives God's Way, Biblically, "right-ruling".... and often, (as I've seen in person) those in the group, even children of the pastor, and deacons,
who ask to start being more Biblical(there's a couple simple ways), are told "NO". by the 'pastor' ....

 

[DesiredHaven]

This is question could be a research project. I am sure most churchs do not handle matters this way. And some that have I am sure there were abuses, the Salem witch trials comes to mind.. But in cases where matters are handled this way,today, I would think that perhaps monastaries, smaller sects, communes, possibly the Amish, handle disputes in this manner. And I think that at times this sort of power can be corruptable the Branch Davidians come to mind. I think that Paul was hoping that disputes would be kept with in the confines of the early church's (what happens in the church stays in the church) It would not have looked well to the larger community, if early members who were supposed to show love and kindness to one another where seen as being no better than themselves. Not a good testimony.

Great idea, research, thanks.

And the Amish I believe have church discipline mastered above all churches, well their communities seem more tightly knitted as well as their involvement in one another lives in so many ways.

Its respectable on one level, something desirable at times, and yet strange too, like you intuitively know if you tried to acclimate into that whole thing it would be very difficult (even in its simplicity).

Thank you Fate, God bless you

 

[DesiredHaven]

the elect, the remnant, do live as Jesus said to ..... the chruches do not.... the remnant and the elect (may be the same, but in any case) the remnant and the elect are usually not found in the chruches.

when a group is set up as a business, it acts like a business. not at all like the body of God's people.

likewise, many arguments you see on this forum, is not from a foundation of truth, but from many different people in various times of being set free from deceptive errors , and most have gotten only a little way out of the deceptions .

when you find (and see in person; not online) the people of God who have laid down their lives, and have not taken their lives back up again for themselves,
then, God Willing, you will see the difference in those who are truly God's and those who aren't.

yes, like MarcR posted, hardly any chruch, if any, lives God's Way, Biblically, "right-ruling".... and often, (as I've seen in person) those in the group, even children of the pastor, and deacons,
who ask to start being more Biblical(there's a couple simple ways), are told "NO". by the 'pastor' ....

Gotcha, thank you for clarifying that Jeff_56, and God bless you as well.

 

[Jeff_56]

Gotcha, thank you for clarifying that Jeff_56, and God bless you as well.

btw, the 'research' has been done. by too many ! (a lot of 'research' was done to prove that something wrong was okay, instead of to find the truth).

then, whose research would be 'trusted' ? -- God is Trustworthy and True and Faithful, and He teaches all His children the Truth, in line with all of His Word. Test Everything by Scripture, no matter whose 'research' it is.

(there is true and good research available - the true history of the people of the book, but it is not accepted by the religious leaders, scholars, professors, or churches, except for by a few of them who are born again)

and the ekklesia bring everything out in the open in the assembly and often in public, JUST LIKE IN SCRIPTURE.

notice how often the sins of the people, OT and NT, are disclosed openly, without any prejudice, so that all may know and learn to (properly) fear God and learn His Way. not behind closed doors, not in secret.

and not like today's national enquirer .... not as if at all trying to smear someone nor for publicity -- but as Yahweh directs, simple and direct and open, to cleanse His People, to PUT OUT THE EVIL from the midst of the assembly as the BIBLE says.