Hebrews 6:1-6

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D

Delivery

Guest
#1
[SUP]1[/SUP] Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[SUP]2[/SUP] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
[SUP]3[/SUP] And this will we do, if God permit.

( Now, why would the writer of Hebrews tell us to leave the principles of the doctrine of Christ, and repentance of our sins and of Faith toward God, and of baptisms, and the resurrection from the dead, etc.? After all, isn't that what Christianity is all about, the doctrine of Christ, Faith toward God,etc.? At first glance it looks like he's telling us to leave or move away from the doctrine of Christ. Maybe, the answer can be found in the next 3 verses.)

[SUP]4[/SUP] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5[/SUP] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6[/SUP] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

(Oh yeah. Now, I see. What he is saying is that we shouldn't keep preaching the message of Salvation, The principles or basics of our belief in Jesus, to people who are already saved, because if anybody actually could fall away and lose their Salvation it would be impossible to renew them again to repentance because Jesus would have to suffer and die and be crucified for their sins again, in order for them to be renewed to repentance again.)

It shows that this doctrine that you can lose your Salvation by sinning and committing iniquitous acts, and then repenting again and getting re-saved, then sinning and losing your Salvation, then repenting and getting it back, then sinning and losing then repenting and regaining, etc., etc., ad infinitum, that the NOSAS people preach, is a false doctrine. If you fall away and lose your Salvation, you are lost forever, you can't get it back, even though you seek it carefully with tears, like Esau, who sold his birthright for a mess of pottage.

Stop trying to lay again the foundation of repentance from dead works. Once you've repented and have accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior you don't have to keep doing it over and over again. It's already done. you're saved forever. Jesus' one blood Sacrifice for you has washed all your sins off the record forever. To say otherwise is a slap in the face of what Jesus did for you. Because you're saying that His one blood sacrifice for you, His suffering and His being crucified for you, and all that He did for you was not sufficient enough to save you. You want Him to suffer some more for your sins, thereby, crucifying to yourself the Son of God afresh and putting Him to an open shame.

Once saved, always saved. So quit trying to repent of sins that are already forgiven you by faith in Christ Jesus. Just accept the fact that you are saved forever and go on unto perfection (because the blood of Jesus makes you perfect by faith) and don't let others put you under condemnation for all the miner mistakes, sins, and shortcomings you might have. Don't let false brethren unawares come in, to privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage of the law. Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.


 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#2
Great post, Delivery. Only 126 posts in a year and a half? Your wisdom is needed more around here.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#3
[SUP]1[/SUP] Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[SUP]2[/SUP] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
[SUP]3[/SUP] And this will we do, if God permit.

( Now, why would the writer of Hebrews tell us to leave the principles of the doctrine of Christ, and repentance of our sins and of Faith toward God, and of baptisms, and the resurrection from the dead, etc.? After all, isn't that what Christianity is all about, the doctrine of Christ, Faith toward God,etc.? At first glance it looks like he's telling us to leave or move away from the doctrine of Christ. Maybe, the answer can be found in the next 3 verses.)

[SUP]4[/SUP] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5[/SUP] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6[/SUP] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

(Oh yeah. Now, I see. What he is saying is that we shouldn't keep preaching the message of Salvation, The principles or basics of our belief in Jesus, to people who are already saved, because if anybody actually could fall away and lose their Salvation it would be impossible to renew them again to repentance because Jesus would have to suffer and die and be crucified for their sins again, in order for them to be renewed to repentance again.)

It shows that this doctrine that you can lose your Salvation by sinning and committing iniquitous acts, and then repenting again and getting re-saved, then sinning and losing your Salvation, then repenting and getting it back, then sinning and losing then repenting and regaining, etc., etc., ad infinitum, that the NOSAS people preach, is a false doctrine. If you fall away and lose your Salvation, you are lost forever, you can't get it back, even though you seek it carefully with tears, like Esau, who sold his birthright for a mess of pottage.

Stop trying to lay again the foundation of repentance from dead works. Once you've repented and have accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior you don't have to keep doing it over and over again. It's already done. you're saved forever. Jesus' one blood Sacrifice for you has washed all your sins off the record forever. To say otherwise is a slap in the face of what Jesus did for you. Because you're saying that His one blood sacrifice for you, His suffering and His being crucified for you, and all that He did for you was not sufficient enough to save you. You want Him to suffer some more for your sins, thereby, crucifying to yourself the Son of God afresh and putting Him to an open shame.

Once saved, always saved. So quit trying to repent of sins that are already forgiven you by faith in Christ Jesus. Just accept the fact that you are saved forever and go on unto perfection (because the blood of Jesus makes you perfect by faith) and don't let others put you under condemnation for all the miner mistakes, sins, and shortcomings you might have. Don't let false brethren unawares come in, to privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage of the law. Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.


AMEN and I agree...get ready for the dissenters.........!
 
Sep 6, 2014
7,034
5,435
113
#4
[SUP]1[/SUP] Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[SUP]2[/SUP] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
[SUP]3[/SUP] And this will we do, if God permit.

( Now, why would the writer of Hebrews tell us to leave the principles of the doctrine of Christ, and repentance of our sins and of Faith toward God, and of baptisms, and the resurrection from the dead, etc.? After all, isn't that what Christianity is all about, the doctrine of Christ, Faith toward God,etc.? At first glance it looks like he's telling us to leave or move away from the doctrine of Christ. Maybe, the answer can be found in the next 3 verses.)

[SUP]4[/SUP] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5[/SUP] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6[/SUP] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

(Oh yeah. Now, I see. What he is saying is that we shouldn't keep preaching the message of Salvation, The principles or basics of our belief in Jesus, to people who are already saved, because if anybody actually could fall away and lose their Salvation it would be impossible to renew them again to repentance because Jesus would have to suffer and die and be crucified for their sins again, in order for them to be renewed to repentance again.)

It shows that this doctrine that you can lose your Salvation by sinning and committing iniquitous acts, and then repenting again and getting re-saved, then sinning and losing your Salvation, then repenting and getting it back, then sinning and losing then repenting and regaining, etc., etc., ad infinitum, that the NOSAS people preach, is a false doctrine. If you fall away and lose your Salvation, you are lost forever, you can't get it back, even though you seek it carefully with tears, like Esau, who sold his birthright for a mess of pottage.

Stop trying to lay again the foundation of repentance from dead works. Once you've repented and have accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior you don't have to keep doing it over and over again. It's already done. you're saved forever. Jesus' one blood Sacrifice for you has washed all your sins off the record forever. To say otherwise is a slap in the face of what Jesus did for you. Because you're saying that His one blood sacrifice for you, His suffering and His being crucified for you, and all that He did for you was not sufficient enough to save you. You want Him to suffer some more for your sins, thereby, crucifying to yourself the Son of God afresh and putting Him to an open shame.

Once saved, always saved. So quit trying to repent of sins that are already forgiven you by faith in Christ Jesus. Just accept the fact that you are saved forever and go on unto perfection (because the blood of Jesus makes you perfect by faith) and don't let others put you under condemnation for all the miner mistakes, sins, and shortcomings you might have. Don't let false brethren unawares come in, to privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage of the law. Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.


Amen and Amen,......keep the good posts coming bro and thank you for this edifying thread here :)
 
D

Delivery

Guest
#5
Great post, Delivery. Only 126 posts in a year and a half? Your wisdom is needed more around here.
Thanks. I wish I could spend more time at the computer but I have a job working 6 days a week lot of time and getting a lot of overtime So, I don't have as much time as I would like to have.
 

Jon4TheCross

Senior Member
Oct 19, 2012
1,864
7
38
#6
So...does practicing all things common and not calling anything of this world our own (poverty according to the flesh)...is that part of going on unto perfection in your opinion delivery?
 
D

Delivery

Guest
#7
So...does practicing all things common and not calling anything of this world our own (poverty according to the flesh)...is that part of going on unto perfection in your opinion delivery?
Perfection is love. The new commandment that Jesus gave which replaces the old testament law of Moses. " A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."

He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Since God is Love and God is perfect then to go on unto perfection is to continue to have love one for another, because love is perfection.


[h=2]And above all these things put on charity,(love) which is the bond of perfectness.[/h]
 
D

Delivery

Guest
#8
I'll answer more questions later. I'm heading out the door.
 

Jon4TheCross

Senior Member
Oct 19, 2012
1,864
7
38
#9
Ephesians 2:11-13Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

11*Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12*that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13*but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Commonwealth is part of perfection and love...thanks.
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#10
[SUP]1[/SUP] Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[SUP]2[/SUP] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
[SUP]3[/SUP] And this will we do, if God permit.

( Now, why would the writer of Hebrews tell us to leave the principles of the doctrine of Christ, and repentance of our sins and of Faith toward God, and of baptisms, and the resurrection from the dead, etc.? After all, isn't that what Christianity is all about, the doctrine of Christ, Faith toward God,etc.? At first glance it looks like he's telling us to leave or move away from the doctrine of Christ. Maybe, the answer can be found in the next 3 verses.)

[SUP]4[/SUP] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5[/SUP] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6[/SUP] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

(Oh yeah. Now, I see. What he is saying is that we shouldn't keep preaching the message of Salvation, The principles or basics of our belief in Jesus, to people who are already saved, because if anybody actually could fall away and lose their Salvation it would be impossible to renew them again to repentance because Jesus would have to suffer and die and be crucified for their sins again, in order for them to be renewed to repentance again.)

Good post, Delivery.

If I may also add that the writer says two things in this regard, one is here and the other is 10:26-31.

Heb 6:4-6 is saying to these Hebrew Christians that to return to Judaism (which some were considering because of the rejection and persecution of their families and friends) is to reject and crucify the Son of God all over again like those who rejected and had him crucified.

Heb 10:26-31 is saying that in rejecting Jesus Christ, they are rejecting his sacrifice for sin, and there is no other sacrifice by which they may be saved, only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

And we learn in 1Jn 2:19 that apostates were never really saved in the first place, that their faith was counterfeit, so they didn't lose a salvation they didn't have.


It shows that this doctrine that you can lose your Salvation by sinning and committing iniquitous acts, and then repenting again and getting re-saved, then sinning and losing your Salvation, then repenting and getting it back, then sinning and losing then repenting and regaining, etc., etc., ad infinitum, that the NOSAS people preach, is a false doctrine. If you fall away and lose your Salvation, you are lost forever, you can't get it back, even though you seek it carefully with tears, like Esau, who sold his birthright for a mess of pottage.

Stop trying to lay again the foundation of repentance from dead works. Once you've repented and have accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior you don't have to keep doing it over and over again. It's already done. you're saved forever. Jesus' one blood Sacrifice for you has washed all your sins off the record forever. To say otherwise is a slap in the face of what Jesus did for you. Because you're saying that His one blood sacrifice for you, His suffering and His being crucified for you, and all that He did for you was not sufficient enough to save you. You want Him to suffer some more for your sins, thereby, crucifying to yourself the Son of God afresh and putting Him to an open shame.

Once saved, always saved. So quit trying to repent of sins that are already forgiven you by faith in Christ Jesus. Just accept the fact that you are saved forever and go on unto perfection (because the blood of Jesus makes you perfect by faith) and don't let others put you under condemnation for all the miner mistakes, sins, and shortcomings you might have. Don't let false brethren unawares come in, to privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage of the law. Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#11
Problem once again with using this passage from Hebrews is that it is saying those who refuse to repent and come back to the Lord are putting Him to an open shame for themselves. Not that it is impossible to fall away and not end up with salvation. Read verse 6 real closely;

[SUP]6[/SUP] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

They are doing the shame to themselves by refusing to repent of their ways, as they believe one of two things; either they don't have to repent or that they love darkness more then light. You are right on the first half though that true believers do not have to worry about repenting again and the laying on of hands as they will be walking properly in the faith, and a one time baptism is all one needs.
But the bible makes it clear by Jesus, Holy Spirit, Paul, and James that many will fall away from the faith and they will not end up with eternal life unless they come back to the Lord.



Matthew 24:10-13
And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

1 Timothy 4:1
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

Colossians 1:22-23
In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.



James 5:19-20
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
 

Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
271
83
#12
Perfection is love. The new commandment that Jesus gave which replaces the old testament law of Moses. "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."

He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Since God is Love and God is perfect then to go on unto perfection is to continue to have love one for another, because love is perfection.


And above all these things put on charity,(love) which is the bond of perfectness.
I'm not sure perfection is that we finally love perfectly. I have always thought perfection was surrendering and allowing the Holy Spirit to conform us to the image of Christ. That we are no longer living our life for ourselves, but only unto Him and as a result of this would be allowing Him to be fully expressed through us.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#13
I'm not sure perfection is that we finally love perfectly. I have always thought perfection was surrendering and allowing the Holy Spirit to conform us to the image of Christ. That we are no longer living our life for ourselves, but only unto Him and as a result of this would be allowing Him to be fully expressed through us.
You are right here as this is what the bible teaches, which amazes me how by how some talk they speak as though they do not have the Holy Spirit in them. Continuing to say we can not do this or that, calling others liars if they say they do, and so on. Even the Lord said for the ones who believe all things are possible !!!
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
6,307
1,097
113
#14
Nice Delivery....Delivery!. Smile.

I love the message of this also found in Romans 6: starting in chapter 5

At just the right moment in human history, Jesus arrives, a son of Adam and the son of God. Through His faithful obedience to His Father, He challenges the twin Powers of sin and Death and Defeats them. Sin no longer reigns unchecked. Death no longer has the last word.

How should we respond to all of this? Is it good to persist in a life of sin so that grace may multiply even more? Absolutely not! [Didn't hide that answer did He?] How can we die to a life where sin ruled over us and then invite sin back into our lives? Did someone forget to tell you that when we were initiated into Jesus the Anointed thru baptism's ceremonial washing, we entered into His death?

Therefore,. we were buried with Him thru this baptism into death so that just as God the Father, in all His glory, resurrected the Anointed one, we, too, might walk confidently out of the grave into a new life.

To put it another way: if we have been united with Him to share in a death like His, don't you understand that we will also share in His resurrection?

We know this: whatever we used to be with our old sinful ways has been nailed to the cross. So our entire record of sin has been canceled, and we no longer have to bow down to sin's power.

We are more than conquerers thru Jesus Christ!
 
Last edited:
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
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#15
Problem once again with using this passage from Hebrews is that it is saying
those who refuse to repent and come back to the Lord are putting Him to an open shame for themselves.
Yes, to return to Judaism is to reject Christ and put him to open shame as did those who rejected him and had him crucified in shame as a criminal.
 
D

Delivery

Guest
#16
I'm not sure perfection is that we finally love perfectly. I have always thought perfection was surrendering and allowing the Holy Spirit to conform us to the image of Christ. That we are no longer living our life for ourselves, but only unto Him and as a result of this would be allowing Him to be fully expressed through us.
I agree that none of us can ever love perfectly. That's not what the bible nor I were saying. To say we each have to love perfectly is to make it a work of the flesh. Like trying to obey the works of the law but not being able to because of our human frailties and weakness'. It reminds me of the verse in 1st John:

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

When I was a new Christian I used to look at that verse, and think, man, i'm never going to attain to that level of perfect love, being able to love others perfectly and always do everything in love without making a mistake. After all, that's what most peoples definition of perfection is, never making a mistake, doing things perfectly, etc. But then the Lord showed me that's not exactly what it means. God is love, and He is the perfect one who never makes a mistake. We do make mistakes and are imperfect and that's why we need Jesus. Jesus makes us perfect by forgiving us for all our sins and reconciling us to God by His blood sacrifice for us. So the "perfect love" in the aforementioned verse is actually God's perfect love and care for us His children. We have perfect love when we have faith in God's perfect love and care for us. That's why it casts out all fear, because if you know God is taking care of you then you know everything's going to turn out OK no matter what happens.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#17
Yes, to return to Judaism is to reject Christ and put him to open shame as did those who rejected him and had him crucified in shame as a criminal.

Just like the Galatians that some want to debate over as Paul clearly says they did walk in the gospel of Christ, and then they turned away to go to justification by the law do to false teachings. Apostle Paul told them who are being justified by the law they have fallen from grace, and Christ has become of no effect to them. Two things a person who considers themselves a believer must have for salvation....
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#18
Just like the Galatians that some want to debate over as Paul clearly says they did walk in the gospel of Christ, and then they turned away to go to justification by the law do to false teachings. Apostle Paul told them who are being justified by the law they have fallen from grace,
Grace and law are mutually exclusive, you cannot be under both.

To be circumcised is to be under law, which necessarily excludes one from grace.

and Christ has become of no effect to them.
To be under the law is to be condemned (Gal 3:10).
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
24,999
13,008
113
58
#19
Since God is Love and God is perfect then to go on unto perfection is to continue to have love one for another, because love is perfection. And above all these things put on charity,(love) which is the bond of perfectness.
Amen! 1 John 4:18 - There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.
 

Jon4TheCross

Senior Member
Oct 19, 2012
1,864
7
38
#20
We can love perfectly by measure. God is without measure...so...yes...not one i do believe can love to such a degree as not measurable love...except God. God can certainly take away all sin in the flesh though, and perfect in us a measure of love from Him.