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"You do not put new wine into old wineskins"
you say following the torah is not legalism, but it is legalism. It is saying christians are obligated to follow the torah and they are not obligated. Gentiles receive the Holy Spirit without ever even knowing the Torah, since the early church gentiles were never obligated to follow the Torah. Scripture makes this plainly clear. Christians do not follow the letter of the Law, but rather the Spirit of the Law. Acts 15 records the first holy synod of the church and it was regarding this very subject, why are you unable to see this?
The Spirit of the Law is to love God and love one another:
How do we love?
we do not hate, we love all humans.
we do not kill, we save all humans.
we do not commit adultry, we remain faithful to all humans.
we do not steal, we give to all humans.
we do not lie, we speak truth to all humans.
we do not covet, we are humble to all humans.
We keep the spirit of the Law, not the letter.
This is the NEW Covenant God has made binding it with the blood of his only begotten, Jesus Christ our Lord.
you say following the torah is not legalism, but it is legalism. It is saying christians are obligated to follow the torah and they are not obligated. Gentiles receive the Holy Spirit without ever even knowing the Torah, since the early church gentiles were never obligated to follow the Torah. Scripture makes this plainly clear. Christians do not follow the letter of the Law, but rather the Spirit of the Law. Acts 15 records the first holy synod of the church and it was regarding this very subject, why are you unable to see this?
The Spirit of the Law is to love God and love one another:
How do we love?
we do not hate, we love all humans.
we do not kill, we save all humans.
we do not commit adultry, we remain faithful to all humans.
we do not steal, we give to all humans.
we do not lie, we speak truth to all humans.
we do not covet, we are humble to all humans.
We keep the spirit of the Law, not the letter.
This is the NEW Covenant God has made binding it with the blood of his only begotten, Jesus Christ our Lord.
The old container of the wine cannot be used for the new, but he content is still good.
Love is defined for us to do it God's way in Leviticus 19:11-19 and Deuteronomy 6:1-6 both in the Pentateuch or Torah if you will.
"Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the Lord your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it: That thou mightest fear the Lord thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the Lord God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:"
"Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the Lord.Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour; I am the Lord.Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.
That's just a preview of a greater love by the works of faith that trusts that these words work in us God's way. Written on the heart thing ya know.
Love is defined for us to do it God's way in Leviticus 19:11-19 and Deuteronomy 6:1-6 both in the Pentateuch or Torah if you will.
"Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the Lord your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it: That thou mightest fear the Lord thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the Lord God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:"
"Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the Lord.Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour; I am the Lord.Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.
That's just a preview of a greater love by the works of faith that trusts that these words work in us God's way. Written on the heart thing ya know.
J
Your partial "quote", in context, had to do with the disciples of Jesus not fasting while He was still among them:
Matthew chapter 9
[14] Then came to him the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not?
[15] And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.
[16] No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse.
[17] Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
Mark chapter 2
[18] And the disciples of John and of the Pharisees used to fast: and they come and say unto him, Why do the disciples of John and of the Pharisees fast, but thy disciples fast not?
[19] And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.
[20] But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.
[21] No man also seweth a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse.
[22] And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.
Luke chapter 5
[33] And they said unto him, Why do the disciples of John fast often, and make prayers, and likewise the disciples of the Pharisees; but thine eat and drink?
[34] And he said unto them, Can ye make the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them?
[35] But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.
[36] And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
[37] And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
[38] But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
[39] No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.
Although there can legitimately be a danger in saying "The old is better" in relation to such things as feasts, carnal washings, etc., etc., which were merely "a shadow of things to come", there are MANY commandments which have carried over from the Old Testament "torah" into the New Testament and I'll be more than happy to document the same for you or for anybody else by citing the same from the New Testament scriptures. For now, I'll just leave you with the following words of Jesus Christ (if anybody believes Him anymore):
Matthew chapter 13
[51] Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.
[52] Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
Matthew chapter 9
[14] Then came to him the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not?
[15] And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.
[16] No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse.
[17] Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
Mark chapter 2
[18] And the disciples of John and of the Pharisees used to fast: and they come and say unto him, Why do the disciples of John and of the Pharisees fast, but thy disciples fast not?
[19] And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.
[20] But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.
[21] No man also seweth a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse.
[22] And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.
Luke chapter 5
[33] And they said unto him, Why do the disciples of John fast often, and make prayers, and likewise the disciples of the Pharisees; but thine eat and drink?
[34] And he said unto them, Can ye make the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them?
[35] But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.
[36] And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
[37] And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
[38] But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
[39] No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.
Although there can legitimately be a danger in saying "The old is better" in relation to such things as feasts, carnal washings, etc., etc., which were merely "a shadow of things to come", there are MANY commandments which have carried over from the Old Testament "torah" into the New Testament and I'll be more than happy to document the same for you or for anybody else by citing the same from the New Testament scriptures. For now, I'll just leave you with the following words of Jesus Christ (if anybody believes Him anymore):
Matthew chapter 13
[51] Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.
[52] Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
J
Actually, what he stated isn't true. Again, contextually, his partial "quote" had to do with Jesus' disciples not fasting while He was yet among them. I mean, Vernon mentions Galatians as if that somehow proves his point, yet the epistle tremendously refutes his intended point. For example, Paul spent considerable time in this epistle talking about how God "preached before the gospel unto Abraham" and how Christ is "Abraham's seed" and where did Paul derive such knowledge from? Well, he derived it from THE TORAH which many here foolishly despise and would burn if only they could.
I think you are doing great. As Jesus said:
[SUP] [/SUP]At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do. Luke 10:21
God Bless
[SUP] [/SUP]At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do. Luke 10:21
God Bless
The issue isn't legalism as much as it is spiritual adultery.
If you are in Christ, you have died to the Law in order to be joined to another, Christ, so that you may bear fruit unto God.
Note that you have to die to the Law in order to bear fruit unto God in Christ.
When you flirt with the Law (which is all you are really doing), you are committing spiritual adultery.
More here:
-JGIG
K
The issue isn't legalism as much as it is spiritual adultery.
If you are in Christ, you have died to the Law in order to be joined to another, Christ, so that you may bear fruit unto God.
Note that you have to die to the Law in order to bear fruit unto God in Christ.
When you flirt with the Law (which is all you are really doing), you are committing spiritual adultery.
More here:
-JGIG
Unfortunately, I see many posts who agree with you on cc. I am not one of them. If you interpret Paul's words in such a way they contradict other scripture, then you misunderstand Paul and present him as disobedient. It's not hard to see that Paul was a Torah observant Messiah follower.
The commandments are a guide as to how we should live. The choice is ours. Christ obeyed the law, in fact He magnified it.
We are also required to be obedient towards our Heavenly Father after He saves us through His grace.