Okay I understand the water baptism...I guess...but in Acts it says, and a little while after they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Also in Mathew 3:16 it says that after Jesus was baptized the spirit of the Lord rested upon him...I'm not asking if the spiritual gifts are still for today, I guess I'm asking if you need to be baptized in water in order to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit?
Baptism of the Holy Spirit?
- Thread starter Jruiz
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The order is not always water first then Holy Spirit after, as shown here...Acts 10:47
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
So water baptism should be done, so as not to leave anything undone in my point of view. But the One Baptism that brings us into the Body of Christ is that of the Holy Spirit, which is of God and not men.
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
So water baptism should be done, so as not to leave anything undone in my point of view. But the One Baptism that brings us into the Body of Christ is that of the Holy Spirit, which is of God and not men.
Strictly speaking the Greek is 'baptised IN the holy Spirit'. The phrase is always used in contrast with John's baptism. John baptised with water so that men could by being baptised commit themselves to receiving the outpouring of the Holy Spirit as promised by the prophets (Is 32.15; 44.1-5; 55.10-17; Joel 2.28; Ezek 26.24 ff.).
That prophetic outpouring occurred at Pentecost and anyone who now truly believes in Jesus Christ is immediately 'baptised in the Spirit into the body of Christ (1 Cor 12.13). They receive the fulfilment of what John was prophesying. That is why Paul could say 'you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if so be that the Spirit of God dwells in you. If any man has not the Spirit of Christ he is none of His (Rom 8.9.
This can occur without water baptism. But every Christian should be baptised as an outward revelation of what God has done in them.
There are of course further blessings of the Spirit awaiting the Christian. But these are not 'baptisms in the Spirit'. They are 'fillings with the Spirit'.
That prophetic outpouring occurred at Pentecost and anyone who now truly believes in Jesus Christ is immediately 'baptised in the Spirit into the body of Christ (1 Cor 12.13). They receive the fulfilment of what John was prophesying. That is why Paul could say 'you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if so be that the Spirit of God dwells in you. If any man has not the Spirit of Christ he is none of His (Rom 8.9.
This can occur without water baptism. But every Christian should be baptised as an outward revelation of what God has done in them.
There are of course further blessings of the Spirit awaiting the Christian. But these are not 'baptisms in the Spirit'. They are 'fillings with the Spirit'.
The phrase "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" does not actually appear anywhere in Scripture.
I truly believe we are given the Holy Spirit when we are saved. I think this second blessing stuff is man made nonsense. Once we are saved, we are instructed to walk with Christ, obeying him and serving and loving him. Discipleship, in other words.
"But whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked." 1 John 2:5-6
"Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it." Matt 11:24-25
I truly believe we are given the Holy Spirit when we are saved. I think this second blessing stuff is man made nonsense. Once we are saved, we are instructed to walk with Christ, obeying him and serving and loving him. Discipleship, in other words.
"But whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked." 1 John 2:5-6
"Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it." Matt 11:24-25
I was baptised by the HOly Spirit decades before I was baptised by water. I did not know I was baptised by HOly Spirit until 5 years ago, when I was at a seminar on gifts of Holy Spirit, when I went to front for prayer, nothing happened, but room went black and I was shown an event which I had forgotten, it was first communion I took while on church holiday weekend. I then remembered, I remembered how confused I was at how I felt and what it was, but now it made perfect sense.
It was if I was standing in a bright light, a wave of intense joy and pleausre came over me, all the hairs on my body stood on end and it felt amazing, it lasted for just a few seconds if that. A good way to describe was standing under a waterfall of light.
So yes, you can be baptised by Holy Spirit before water Baptism.
It was if I was standing in a bright light, a wave of intense joy and pleausre came over me, all the hairs on my body stood on end and it felt amazing, it lasted for just a few seconds if that. A good way to describe was standing under a waterfall of light.
So yes, you can be baptised by Holy Spirit before water Baptism.
M
Some great books to help you understand: Amazon.com: baptism of the holy spirit
V
I'm going to confuse you, and I apologize in advance for that. Some of what has been said on your thread is either unclear -- not wrong, just unclear -- or it is just plain wrong.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the receiving of the Holy Spirit when you first believe. That is all it is. There is no "second giving" or "more, bigger, giving" of the Holy Spirit. You receive Him once, when you confess Christ as your Savior and Lord, and God accepts that confession as true and heartfelt. We are told to be "filled," to "hear His voice," and a variety of other things about our relationship with Him, but anyone who tells you there is a separate, different "Holy Spirit baptism" that gives you the gift of tongues, prophesy, healings, etc. is misguided, and just plain wrong.
Over time, as our sanctification progresses, as we become more mature in Christ, we realize the spiritual gifts God gave us at the very moment of belief. They are not given at a later date, we get them immediately. We just aren't prepared to realize and use them immediately.
Those gifts are teaching, helps, faith (all believers must walk by faith, and are given faith in order to believe, but certain believers will be especially gifted with a greater measure of faith for specific purposes in edifying the body of Christ -- Acts 6:5 & Colossians 2:6), exhortation, administration, giving, mercy, evangelism, and pastoring/teaching (an additional measure of teaching ability intended to provide leadership for a local flock/church).
I know that didn't clear up a thing for you, and this post will be attacked by those who believe otherwise. That's not going to change the truth. God bless.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the receiving of the Holy Spirit when you first believe. That is all it is. There is no "second giving" or "more, bigger, giving" of the Holy Spirit. You receive Him once, when you confess Christ as your Savior and Lord, and God accepts that confession as true and heartfelt. We are told to be "filled," to "hear His voice," and a variety of other things about our relationship with Him, but anyone who tells you there is a separate, different "Holy Spirit baptism" that gives you the gift of tongues, prophesy, healings, etc. is misguided, and just plain wrong.
Over time, as our sanctification progresses, as we become more mature in Christ, we realize the spiritual gifts God gave us at the very moment of belief. They are not given at a later date, we get them immediately. We just aren't prepared to realize and use them immediately.
Those gifts are teaching, helps, faith (all believers must walk by faith, and are given faith in order to believe, but certain believers will be especially gifted with a greater measure of faith for specific purposes in edifying the body of Christ -- Acts 6:5 & Colossians 2:6), exhortation, administration, giving, mercy, evangelism, and pastoring/teaching (an additional measure of teaching ability intended to provide leadership for a local flock/church).
I know that didn't clear up a thing for you, and this post will be attacked by those who believe otherwise. That's not going to change the truth. God bless.
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Spoken like a true non-pentacostal! I was raised a southern baptist, however, after going to an interdenominational seminary where I was exposed to more of a New Testament type church, where powerful signs and wonders always followed, mine eyes have seen the LIGHT! lol We cannot dictate how the Holy Spirit will work in all services, but, we can step back and allow HIM to move upon us and the congregation and stand in awe as healings pccur and where crying, rejoicing, praises are lifted up. That is hard to do when the church bulletin dictates when to rise, sit, tithe, sing, listen, pray and more. I left a church when the technology got so important that I felt like a robot watching a movie. As I walked into the sanctuary, two huge screens were showing us the events coming up in the church minutes, then, pictures would dictate that it was time to sit down and start the service and squelch the cell phones. All would rise as a hymn was posted, complete with a boucing ball at times. A short prayer was pre-recorded in which the congregation had to read in unison. We were told to sit and then more announcements were shown. Another hymn was posted and we stood up. After the 2nd hymn, a symbol of tithing was shown and another pre-recorded prayer, then another "SIT DOWN" notice. While the offering plates were being passed, a pre-recorded song with pictures was shown, like a video. THen, we were shown to STAND UP..as the screen played offeratory and the pastor motioned for us to sit again. THen, the sermon topic was posted, and each point and section was shown. All we needed was the popcorn and "Let's go out to the lobby" song for the service to be complete! Nowhere was there allowed a place for the HOly Spirit to be part of the worship. No wonder there is no baptism in the holy Spirit in those kind of churches..The people know no differently..more like brainwashing, dull and void.
I don't think this is a good example. what happened in the upper room to the disciples, who were already indwelt by the Holy Spirit was a special inbreathing to prepare them for their responsibility for the whole church. note what Jesus connected with it. a special discernment concerning sin. Pentecost was both an empowering and the birthday of the new church. these were special unrepeatable events
The baptism of the holy spirit happened to me when I was first saved long before I was baptized in water. It was obvious to me when I was baptized by fire, I was filled with an amazing fire and power. energy drinks are nothing compared to the power of the holy spirit, I mean I literally knew what it felt like to be alive not hyper nor energetic but filled with life. I will never forget what that felt like.
Does the foot have the same reaction to the baptism of the Holy Spirit as the eye? Does the hand have the same reaction to the Holy Spirit baptism as the ear?
Each person, based on the gifts and the workmanship of God, will have a different view of what the baptism of the Holy Spirit is.
I'm not saying you are wrong at all. I am just saying we shouldn't discount those testimonies that don't necessarily jive with our own experience or understanding.
The Holy Spirit is awesome and does amazing things and we shouldn't limit Him or His Power.
Each person, based on the gifts and the workmanship of God, will have a different view of what the baptism of the Holy Spirit is.
I'm not saying you are wrong at all. I am just saying we shouldn't discount those testimonies that don't necessarily jive with our own experience or understanding.
The Holy Spirit is awesome and does amazing things and we shouldn't limit Him or His Power.
There are 2 words in the Bible that apply to the working of the Holy Spirit on a believer.
Within and Upon these words are always overlooked or considered the same, especially in Baptist denominational doctrine, yet they are not even remotely identical in use.
The Holy Spirit within a believer happens at conversion just as did in John 20 when Jesus breathed on the disciples.
The Holy Spirit working within the believer is for fruit of the Holy Spirit/character and holiness
The Holy Spirit upon a believer happens after conversion, just as did it in Acts 2 in the upper room and then again in Acts 4.
The Holy Spirit working upon on a believer is for power to witness/service and the gifts of the Holy Spirit found in 1 Cor 12.
Romans 12 motivational or motive gifts are not given by the Holy Spirit as he wills, they are given to us by God grace[unmerited favor] and used for Church administration.
I have worked extensively in missions and the funny thing about this statement is that Baptist missionaries I know and support on the mission field, reject this statement completely.
Take away the power of God on your own decision, but do not take others down the road with you.
Within and Upon these words are always overlooked or considered the same, especially in Baptist denominational doctrine, yet they are not even remotely identical in use.
The Holy Spirit within a believer happens at conversion just as did in John 20 when Jesus breathed on the disciples.
The Holy Spirit working within the believer is for fruit of the Holy Spirit/character and holiness
The Holy Spirit upon a believer happens after conversion, just as did it in Acts 2 in the upper room and then again in Acts 4.
The Holy Spirit working upon on a believer is for power to witness/service and the gifts of the Holy Spirit found in 1 Cor 12.
Romans 12 motivational or motive gifts are not given by the Holy Spirit as he wills, they are given to us by God grace[unmerited favor] and used for Church administration.
I have worked extensively in missions and the funny thing about this statement is that Baptist missionaries I know and support on the mission field, reject this statement completely.
Take away the power of God on your own decision, but do not take others down the road with you.