Straw Man Walking
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E
Your honestly going to ask that question after reading what I wrote?
Maybe you need to read it again.
true faith works, a psuedo, or false faith will not.
If noah had a pseudo or false faith, he may have started the ark, if he even did that, but he never would have finished it.
So tell. me, what Kind of faith did noah have? The psuedo or false faith (the one James called dead) or the faith which saves?
Maybe you need to read it again.
true faith works, a psuedo, or false faith will not.
If noah had a pseudo or false faith, he may have started the ark, if he even did that, but he never would have finished it.
So tell. me, what Kind of faith did noah have? The psuedo or false faith (the one James called dead) or the faith which saves?
E
Again, If you read my post, and have to ask this, you did not read my post.
Does anyone actually read what people say anymore?
Saving faith works. So how can a saving working faith be lost?
was noah going to get thrown off the ark if he stopped having faith and stop working? Or better yet, After witnessing the Love God had for him, Would his faith ever fail?
E
No Sarah, I have never said that. and just like you did not read my post. you do not listen to anything I am actually saying. or you would not make such outlandish claims.
I have always said people who claim they HAVE to obey are trying to earn their salvation.
HAVING to do something to EARN something, is much different, then HAVING something causes you to DO something.
there are not even in the same universe.
When you say HAVE to, you are placing a person under law
When you say we need to change a part of our lives we are struggling with, here let me help, you are preaching grace.
All of Gods children will have areas of their lives they struggle with, especially as babes in Christ. To go tell then they have to obey or they will not be saved because they will lose their salvation, is not going to help them, and it is legalism. and not of God (especially when other areas of their life has been changed, PROVING they have good works)
I have always said people who claim they HAVE to obey are trying to earn their salvation.
HAVING to do something to EARN something, is much different, then HAVING something causes you to DO something.
there are not even in the same universe.
When you say HAVE to, you are placing a person under law
When you say we need to change a part of our lives we are struggling with, here let me help, you are preaching grace.
All of Gods children will have areas of their lives they struggle with, especially as babes in Christ. To go tell then they have to obey or they will not be saved because they will lose their salvation, is not going to help them, and it is legalism. and not of God (especially when other areas of their life has been changed, PROVING they have good works)
E
Lets continue with noah. Lets say after a month or two. Noah thinks he is falling behind, so he decides to work seven days, and ignors the sabaath day. So God going to come down and say, Welp noah, I have you a chance, But you sinned against me and did not obey my sabbath, So no use continuing, You are going to die like the rest of the sinners?
Lets get real. Eventually Noah is going to get wore out, because he is not taking the rest as he was commanded, This will cause him to have to take a break. And God will say, "See, if you did what I asked, you would not be in this situation, but now since you sinned, your suffering the results. What do you think of my command now? You going to stop having faith in me in the future, or learn to follow what I have guided you to do" (also knows as Gods chastening)
Yet people in here would make it known noah would be lost (they may not say it in this situation, but thats what they preach!)
Lets get real. Eventually Noah is going to get wore out, because he is not taking the rest as he was commanded, This will cause him to have to take a break. And God will say, "See, if you did what I asked, you would not be in this situation, but now since you sinned, your suffering the results. What do you think of my command now? You going to stop having faith in me in the future, or learn to follow what I have guided you to do" (also knows as Gods chastening)
Yet people in here would make it known noah would be lost (they may not say it in this situation, but thats what they preach!)
We who are saved and have the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit know and rejoice in the fact that we are saved by grace. Gods grace is necessary for us to have faith to receive our gift of salvation. We cannot work to obtain salvation because we are dead, dead in our trespasses and sins. Dead men cannot work, actually they can do nothing. God must first kindle a flicker of life in us that we may have an ability to choose between dead in sins and alive in Christ.
When the word of God is declared the Holy Spirit moves in the hearts of men dead in sin and brings conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment. Gods word, Gods Holy Spirit and mans choice. John 3:15-21. The Holy Spirit is always present when the word of God goes forth. The word of God never returns to God void but always accomplishes that to which God has purposed it. The zeal of Jehovah performs this.
Those who heard Stephen preach were confronted by the Holy Spirit. Those who heard Peter preach were confronted by the Holy Spirit. Each group responded to the preaching of the cross according to what was in their hearts. All men must and will do likewise.
Does a saved man work or serve the Lord? You bet he does because we who are saved are created in Christ to do the works, the good works Christ intends for us to do and that includes suffering for His names sake.
The real problem is that many folks today have a mental assent to Christ but have never surrendered to the Holy Spirits call to forsake all else and trust only Christ. They read the bible like a newspaper and not like the word of God. There is no fear of God before their eyes.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
When the word of God is declared the Holy Spirit moves in the hearts of men dead in sin and brings conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment. Gods word, Gods Holy Spirit and mans choice. John 3:15-21. The Holy Spirit is always present when the word of God goes forth. The word of God never returns to God void but always accomplishes that to which God has purposed it. The zeal of Jehovah performs this.
Those who heard Stephen preach were confronted by the Holy Spirit. Those who heard Peter preach were confronted by the Holy Spirit. Each group responded to the preaching of the cross according to what was in their hearts. All men must and will do likewise.
Does a saved man work or serve the Lord? You bet he does because we who are saved are created in Christ to do the works, the good works Christ intends for us to do and that includes suffering for His names sake.
The real problem is that many folks today have a mental assent to Christ but have never surrendered to the Holy Spirits call to forsake all else and trust only Christ. They read the bible like a newspaper and not like the word of God. There is no fear of God before their eyes.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
God said to noah. I am angry, all people will die, because they have sinned against me
God said to mankind, I am angry, all people will suffer for eternity because they have sinned against me.
here is where it starts. if you do not have faith in what God says here, nothing else is going to matter.
Noah believed God, Thus God said, I will save you.
if we trust God he will save us.
Since noah was saved, he did what God asked him to do.
since we are saved, we do what God asks us to do.
people want to put the cart before the horse, and have the work one first. it does not work that way, If I have no faith in what God said to begin with, I have no capacity to do what God asks me to do. If I have faith in what God says, He will create me for good works (eph 2:10)
the work did not save me, THEY ARE A RESULT OF MY SALVATION
God said to mankind, I am angry, all people will suffer for eternity because they have sinned against me.
here is where it starts. if you do not have faith in what God says here, nothing else is going to matter.
Noah believed God, Thus God said, I will save you.
if we trust God he will save us.
Since noah was saved, he did what God asked him to do.
since we are saved, we do what God asks us to do.
people want to put the cart before the horse, and have the work one first. it does not work that way, If I have no faith in what God said to begin with, I have no capacity to do what God asks me to do. If I have faith in what God says, He will create me for good works (eph 2:10)
the work did not save me, THEY ARE A RESULT OF MY SALVATION
Noah was preserved by his faith.....it is that simple......and as EG pointed out he was deemed righteous in GOD's eyes before God even announced he would destroy the world by flood. It is obvious that you guys still fail to understand that the work done is a direct result of the faith one already possesses .....and the work itself does not save one SPIRITUALLY......When will you realize that physical preservation of LIFE is NOT the salvation of the spirit.........??????
They don't listen as they are hung up on works.....it blows my mind how many times that the workers for salvation with take the physical and apply it to the spiritual.....
There is a physical preservation and a spiritual preservation and to make or take a scenario that resulted in a physical preservation and apply it to the salvation of the spirit is a fatal flaw that lacks cognitive reasoning.........
Noah was righteous in the eyes of the LORD because he was a man of FAITH........He was already deemed righteous and the fact that they try and equate the building of the ark as the cause of his righteousness proves they still fail to understand anything.......
E
I don't know sarah. You tell me. You have read how many of my posts now where I directly answered that question? Yet you still have to ask?
I can only imagine you wish to stir up trouble. not actually read what a person says to understand their position. But I guess I should be used to that in here.
can saving faith do nothing? NO!
Does saving faith obey? YES
Can one have saving faith which does not obey? NO
and I will add a few.
Would noah stop building the ark because his faith stopped? NO! WHy? BECAUSE HIS FAITH WAS REAL!
Can saving faith STOP BEING SAVING FAITH? No! Because it is real.
I can only imagine you wish to stir up trouble. not actually read what a person says to understand their position. But I guess I should be used to that in here.
can saving faith do nothing? NO!
Does saving faith obey? YES
Can one have saving faith which does not obey? NO
and I will add a few.
Would noah stop building the ark because his faith stopped? NO! WHy? BECAUSE HIS FAITH WAS REAL!
Can saving faith STOP BEING SAVING FAITH? No! Because it is real.
1) the bible, not me, teaches that the promise of salvation is conditional, not an unconditional guarantee.
2) the bible, not me, teaches water baptism is the means God has chosen to save men, Mt 28:19,20; Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5; Acts 2:38, 1 Cor 1:12,13; Rom 6:3-7; Col 2:12-14; Gal 3:27; 1 Pet 3:21....
a) God does the work in removing the body of sin when one is water baptized. Therefore one must passively submits himself to God's work.
b) when one is water baptized then he has "submitted unto the righteousness of God" Rom 10:3 which saves and had not done his own righteousness.
If God commands a person to do "x" and a person does "x", is that person:
1) earning his own salvation?
2) doing his own righteousness or God's righteousness?
When God commanded Abraham to offer Isaac and Abraham obeyed, was Abraham;
1) earning his justification, James 2:21?
2) doing his own righteousness or doing God's righteousness in offering Isaac?