D
Hey all, Peace be unto you in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I just returned to looking at this again. You know how Paul said he did speak (in various places) or how he makes a note of it for us? I had touched upon it before but this morning I just sat with it making notes of the various places.
But I always thought that was cool how he would drop the pen to note these when's (and I thought, perhaps he did so in the case of any misunderstandings that could come of his speaking).
Paul mentions that he speaks not after the Lord but how he speaks as a fool or foolishly at times ( such as in 2 Cr 11:3 & 17) or when he is speaking to those who know the law (as in Romans 7:1). Or how he states he is speaking as a man (back in Romans 3:5) or after the manner of men (as in Romans 6:19). Or when he said he did speak unto them as unto carnal not as unto spiritual (in 1 Cr 3:1). Even though Paul acknowledges they which are spiritual (and no more yet carnal) as in Gal 6:1. These words (as used) as representatives of ages (whether of babes, yet carnal, and the full age, which are spiritual)
Paul speaks of how he becomes like those he is speaking to in order to gain them (in 1 Cr 9:20, & an example Romans 7:1 )
I was just looking at a couple of places noted here (1 Corinth, Romans and Galations)
Here in Corinth Paul discerns their condition (which is discerned as yet carnal, and which walk like men) in this manner
1 Cr 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions,
are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
In the above he would not speak unto them as unto spiritual but as unto carnal, (1 Cr 3:1)
Even here in Romans Paul said (as he reasoned with them), I speak as a man.
Romans 3:5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say?
Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
And here Paul says this
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual:
but I am carnal, sold under sin.
He writes the above as if he is (in the present) carnal. And even here in Corinth Paul says,
1 Cr 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual,
but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
I am not seeing Paul carnal (in the present) at all. Paul is relating to them as one yet carnal (in their own present) even as he could only speak to them as unto carnal (and not as unto spiritual).
Paul acknowledges ye which are spiritual in Galations saying,
Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual,
restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
So Paul acknowledges they which are spiritual. And here (in this) also seems to be an area where these can be tempted moreso in the area of pride (or being exalted above measure) perhaps even in this instance (over ones own brother) when not dealing with him who might be caught in a fault (especially when it come to the right spirit of meekness in themselves).
This might be obvious to alot of you here but I have just conversed with many believers who lock Paul into the "I am carnal" category for that one line (there) where he adressed how the law is spiritual but also how he said "but I am carnal" (as if he was speaking of his present condition) even remained such verses simply seeing him as becoming all things (presently so) unto all men (and speaking to them as they could hear him) which was not as unto spiritual but as unto carnal.
Paul is speaking to them as unto carnal, (not as unto spiritual) or as he says elsewhere, I speak unto you after the manner of men. And in this doing I am seeing Paul becoming all things to all men (in order to gain them) even as he speaks of doing the same (such as in 1 Cr 9:20).
Paul is helping them reverse what they used to yeild themselves to.
Romans 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh:
for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity;
even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
As they are yet carnal, and have not waxed strong in the Spirit yet.
From Romans 6:19 (above) to here...
Paul says,
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual:
but I am carnal, sold under sin.
The two places in this manner,
Between milk (yet carnal, a babe)
and strong meat (spiritual, or full age)
That which is yet carnal is a babe (which was not where I see Paul being in the present teaching) but rather how he both related to (became all things to all men) and how he spoke to them (having been there) and being apt to teach concerning it.
1 Cr 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual,
but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in *the word of righteousness*:
for he is a babe.
1 Cr 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat:
for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age,
even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Discerning the time by discerning others always reminded of this, because the Lord asks,
Mat 25:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant,
whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Paul is discerning their state
1 Cr 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat:
for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
Not able to bear it would seem to mean it is not due season for the same.
Paul didnt seem to force feed, and Peter encouraged them saying
1 Peter 2:1Wherefore **laying aside** all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
1 Peter 2:2As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
So the sincere milk for babes is something to actually be desired that we may grow thereby, especially when laying aside these other things (which belong to the old man) and of the which we should put off (and grow up unto him) our Lord Jesus Christ.
I was going to start a blog because I suppose this is more of a study then a discussion, huh? I wasnt sure. I just thought I would post this rather then start a blog, I was torn between which though.
Anyway, if any of you can think of other verses I can incorporate into this ( in respects to his manner of speaking) that I might have missed (as it relates to this) please feel free to add them. I would really like to add to this one.
I just returned to looking at this again. You know how Paul said he did speak (in various places) or how he makes a note of it for us? I had touched upon it before but this morning I just sat with it making notes of the various places.
But I always thought that was cool how he would drop the pen to note these when's (and I thought, perhaps he did so in the case of any misunderstandings that could come of his speaking).
Paul mentions that he speaks not after the Lord but how he speaks as a fool or foolishly at times ( such as in 2 Cr 11:3 & 17) or when he is speaking to those who know the law (as in Romans 7:1). Or how he states he is speaking as a man (back in Romans 3:5) or after the manner of men (as in Romans 6:19). Or when he said he did speak unto them as unto carnal not as unto spiritual (in 1 Cr 3:1). Even though Paul acknowledges they which are spiritual (and no more yet carnal) as in Gal 6:1. These words (as used) as representatives of ages (whether of babes, yet carnal, and the full age, which are spiritual)
Paul speaks of how he becomes like those he is speaking to in order to gain them (in 1 Cr 9:20, & an example Romans 7:1 )
I was just looking at a couple of places noted here (1 Corinth, Romans and Galations)
Here in Corinth Paul discerns their condition (which is discerned as yet carnal, and which walk like men) in this manner
1 Cr 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions,
are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
In the above he would not speak unto them as unto spiritual but as unto carnal, (1 Cr 3:1)
Even here in Romans Paul said (as he reasoned with them), I speak as a man.
Romans 3:5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say?
Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
And here Paul says this
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual:
but I am carnal, sold under sin.
He writes the above as if he is (in the present) carnal. And even here in Corinth Paul says,
1 Cr 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual,
but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
I am not seeing Paul carnal (in the present) at all. Paul is relating to them as one yet carnal (in their own present) even as he could only speak to them as unto carnal (and not as unto spiritual).
Paul acknowledges ye which are spiritual in Galations saying,
Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual,
restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
So Paul acknowledges they which are spiritual. And here (in this) also seems to be an area where these can be tempted moreso in the area of pride (or being exalted above measure) perhaps even in this instance (over ones own brother) when not dealing with him who might be caught in a fault (especially when it come to the right spirit of meekness in themselves).
This might be obvious to alot of you here but I have just conversed with many believers who lock Paul into the "I am carnal" category for that one line (there) where he adressed how the law is spiritual but also how he said "but I am carnal" (as if he was speaking of his present condition) even remained such verses simply seeing him as becoming all things (presently so) unto all men (and speaking to them as they could hear him) which was not as unto spiritual but as unto carnal.
Paul is speaking to them as unto carnal, (not as unto spiritual) or as he says elsewhere, I speak unto you after the manner of men. And in this doing I am seeing Paul becoming all things to all men (in order to gain them) even as he speaks of doing the same (such as in 1 Cr 9:20).
Paul is helping them reverse what they used to yeild themselves to.
Romans 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh:
for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity;
even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
As they are yet carnal, and have not waxed strong in the Spirit yet.
From Romans 6:19 (above) to here...
Paul says,
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual:
but I am carnal, sold under sin.
The two places in this manner,
Between milk (yet carnal, a babe)
and strong meat (spiritual, or full age)
That which is yet carnal is a babe (which was not where I see Paul being in the present teaching) but rather how he both related to (became all things to all men) and how he spoke to them (having been there) and being apt to teach concerning it.
1 Cr 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual,
but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in *the word of righteousness*:
for he is a babe.
1 Cr 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat:
for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age,
even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Discerning the time by discerning others always reminded of this, because the Lord asks,
Mat 25:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant,
whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Paul is discerning their state
1 Cr 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat:
for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
Not able to bear it would seem to mean it is not due season for the same.
Paul didnt seem to force feed, and Peter encouraged them saying
1 Peter 2:1Wherefore **laying aside** all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
1 Peter 2:2As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
So the sincere milk for babes is something to actually be desired that we may grow thereby, especially when laying aside these other things (which belong to the old man) and of the which we should put off (and grow up unto him) our Lord Jesus Christ.
I was going to start a blog because I suppose this is more of a study then a discussion, huh? I wasnt sure. I just thought I would post this rather then start a blog, I was torn between which though.
Anyway, if any of you can think of other verses I can incorporate into this ( in respects to his manner of speaking) that I might have missed (as it relates to this) please feel free to add them. I would really like to add to this one.
