The sinful Nature?

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Aug 17, 2013
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#1
do we still sin if we are in Christ? should we submit to believing we are bound by sin?
[video=youtube;YacUejbtQ6I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YacUejbtQ6I[/video]
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#2
do we still sin if we are in Christ? should we submit to believing we are bound by sin?
There is no man who does good and does not sin. Christ died to redeem us from sin because we are sinful. But with His help and work within us we can overcome known sin. But only known sin. There are depths of sin in us that we will never fathom until we see Him face to face and the older we grow, assuming we are growing in Christ, the more sinful we realise ourselves to be. Those who claim to be sinlessly perfect simply show that they have a low view of sin.
 
Aug 17, 2013
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#3
Just a little depth into the video and what he is saying the video is more in depth and awesome.

What He is saying is that we have believed a lie. We think that we are for ever bound by sin. But the cross freed us the Blood clensed us. Therefore, We are made righteous through the Blood of the lamb and no longer have to live lift in fear of sin. But we have been made free of sin so we don't have to worry about it but walk free. Dan also said that there are rare days when he is convicted of moral sin. So of course He repents the only reason we live in sin is because our mindset is we are still sinners. That is not true because at the cross through the death and resurrection of Jesus we where made perfect. We have been imputed the mind of Christ Christ's mind never had thought sin because it was in total submission. So if God told us that we have the Mind of Christ, The Blood, The DEATH AND RESURRECTION. In Galatians 2:20 it says that we have been Crucified with Christ so it is no longer I who live(Sin nature) but Christ who lives in me. Truly if we believe that we can walk in freedom and not bondage to sin. Now again to emphasize that does not give us a right to go out and sin we should live righteous and holy unto the Lord. Also we should still know that we where sinners who need the blood who needed the cross and Resurrection of Jesus because we where sinners. 
 
D

Didder

Guest
#4
If we sa we are not sinners we call GOD a liar
 
D

Didder

Guest
#5
didn' t. Jesus say if we even think about sinning against our bothers in Christ we have sinned already
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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#6
There is no man who does good and does not sin. Christ died to redeem us from sin because we are sinful. But with His help and work within us we can overcome known sin. But only known sin. There are depths of sin in us that we will never fathom until we see Him face to face and the older we grow, assuming we are growing in Christ, the more sinful we realise ourselves to be. Those who claim to be sinlessly perfect simply show that they have a low view of sin.
I think this is very well stated, thanks for sharing.
 
Aug 17, 2013
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#7
If we sa we are not sinners we call GOD a liar
im not stating this at all. the context is saying if we had no need for the blood then we are already decieved. But watch the video and he goes over the context and how the body takes that out of place today. We all need the blood.
 
Mar 10, 2015
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#8
There is no man who does good and does not sin. Christ died to redeem us from sin because we are sinful. But with His help and work within us we can overcome known sin. But only known sin. There are depths of sin in us that we will never fathom until we see Him face to face and the older we grow, assuming we are growing in Christ, the more sinful we realise ourselves to be. Those who claim to be sinlessly perfect simply show that they have a low view of sin.
Sorry brother, but this is simply not true.

All sin is a choice we make.

There are no secret sins we are powerless to avoid, that is just false teaching from the church designed to keep people bound and living in fear.

Overcoming SIN is not perfection by any means, it means we have subdued sin and made it our master, Just as God told Cain he could do in Gen 4.6-7

No human will be sinless or perfect, but SIN is something we have power over and there are some sins that I have complete domain over.

Romans 8.2 says it best:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life [SUP][a][/SUP]in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

James 1.13-16 tell us what the SIN cycle is and just because a bad thought enters into your mind doe snot mean you have sinned until you act on that thought, no sin has been committed.

2 Peter 1.1-11 tells us we are to be partakers of the divine nature and if we abound in the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ we will not fall or stumble, which is Greek for SIN.

In John 8.1-11 we find the story fo the woman who committed adultery. Jesus did not condemn her and simply stated go and sin no more. Did that woman ever sin again? Sure, but I bet she never committed adultery again.

Jesus gave her the power to overcome 1 sin that beset her. Just as he gives us that same power today, through the Holy Spirit.

Even so called SINS of Omission found in James 4.17 go back to choice


No, we will never be perfect, but we can overcome SIN, because we are strong and the word of God abides in us.


Having a dream about adultery is not a SIN.

Walking down the street and seeing beautiful woman and commenting how God made such a beautiful woman and not lusting after her in your heart is not a SIN.

Walking down the street and seeing beautiful woman and imagining her with her clothes off and lusting after her in your heart is a SIN.
 
Mar 10, 2015
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#9
do we still sin if we are in Christ? should we submit to believing we are bound by sin?
[video=youtube;YacUejbtQ6I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YacUejbtQ6I[/video]
Dan is preaching righteousness instead of SIN Consciousness and this is the gospel. Not many in the Body are preaching this today. In order to fully gain the revelation of righteousness you must understand Grace.

Be careful though, because some righteousness preachers like Dan can and do fall into perfectionism and that is simply not true.

Perfectionism is not Biblical. Righteousness Consciousness over SIN Consciousness is Bible.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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#10
Salvation forgiveness is a once-for-lifetime event, and the power of sin has no effect on it. God will keep you for as long as you choose to stay, and regard you as pure no matter how dirty you get.

But the power of sin in the here and now is that if you submit to a spiritual authority thru sin, you're submitted to a spiritual authority... until you rebuke it. When you submit to either a demon and/or the flesh yanking on your leash, you empower it over you. Confession and repentance is the way you rebuke that.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#11
Sorry brother, but this is simply not true.

All sin is a choice we make.
no sin is what we are within as well as choices we make. we are rooted in sin. our whole outlook originally is sin. that is why we need a Saviour not just a teacher.

There are no secret sins we are powerless to avoid, that is just false teaching from the church designed to keep people bound and living in fear.
of our there are secret sins if by that you mean sin within of which we are Not at present aware. As we grow in Christ what we once saw as acceptable is revealed as sin.

Overcoming SIN is not perfection by any means, it means we have subdued sin and made it our master, Just as God told Cain he could do in Gen 4.6-7
you are talking about known sins. certainly we can overcome them through Christ, and as you say it will no make us perfect. It will just prepare us for the next stage. We have subdue SINS we have not subdued SIN.. Cain learned that he could overcome certain sins, not all sin. And he did not even do that. In his case sin won.

No human will be sinless or perfect, but SIN is something we have power over and there are some sins that I have complete domain over.
Let him who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall. Yes in Christ we can have power over known sin, but only as our reliance is on Christ and His life in us.

Romans 8.2 says it best:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life [SUP][a][/SUP]in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
That is not referring to victory over sins, it is describing the Spirit inspired new life within us which is the commencement of a life which will finally free us from sin when we are transformed at death..

James 1.13-16 tell us what the SIN cycle is and just because a bad thought enters into your mind doe snot mean you have sinned until you act on that thought, no sin has been committed.
If you nurture that thought you have committed sin. He w
who looks on a woman to sexually desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

2 Peter 1.1-11 tells us we are to be partakers of the divine nature and if we abound in the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ we will not fall or stumble, which is Greek for SIN.
It is not one of the usual words for sin. It refers to an act of sin by which we stumble. By walking with Christ we should avoid known sin. But as you said yourself it does not mean that we do not sin.

In John 8.1-11 we find the story fo the woman who committed adultery. Jesus did not condemn her and simply stated go and sin no more. Did that woman ever sin again? Sure, but I bet she never committed adultery again.
Perhaps, or perhaps not. That would depend on how deep her faith became. Whilst He did not 'condemn' in the way that the Pharisees had (to death) He did condemn her sin. He said sin no more.

I am not sure you even know my position. I don't think you really read my post. You just jumped to conclusions.

Jesus gave her the power to overcome 1 sin that beset her. Just as he gives us that same power today, through the Holy Spirit.
I have constantly stated that with Christ's power within us we can overcome known sin, not just one but many. But that does not make us free from sin. if we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
Even so called SINS of Omission found in James 4.17 go back to choice


No, we will never be perfect, but we can overcome SIN, because we are strong and the word of God abides in us.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#12
Even so called SINS of Omission found in James 4.17 go back to choice.
But the temptation mainly arises because we are sinners. The good that we know is one thing, but what about the good that we should do which we are unaware of because of our sinfulness?


No, we will never be perfect, but we can overcome SIN, because we are strong and the word of God abides in us.
As I have said all along we can overcome KNOWN sin.

Having a dream about adultery is not a SIN.
it is if we consciously allow it to linger, or if it has been caused by lingering on previous lustful thoughts.


Walking down the street and seeing beautiful woman and commenting how God made such a beautiful woman and not lusting after her in your heart is not a SIN.
not in itself (unless your wife hears you) . but it depends on the thoughts that go with it.
Walking down the street and seeing beautiful woman and imagining her with her clothes off and lusting after her in your heart is a SIN.
true
 
Mar 10, 2015
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#13
no sin is what we are within as well as choices we make. we are rooted in sin. our whole outlook originally is sin. that is why we need a Saviour not just a teacher

We did have a SIN nature, but when we get saved we become a new creature, completely new creature.
Romans 8.2
For the law of the Spirit of life [SUP][a][/SUP]in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.


of our there are secret sins if by that you mean sin within of which we are Not at present aware. As we grow in Christ what we once saw as acceptable is revealed as sin.
Of course it is, but we still have power overf it.


you are talking about known sins. certainly we can overcome them through Christ, and as you say it will no make us perfect. It will just prepare us for the next stage. We have subdue SINS we have not subdued SIN.. Cain learned that he could overcome certain sins, not all sin. And he did not even do that. In his case sin won.
Gen 4.6-7 says:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? [SUP]7 [/SUP]If you do well, [SUP][a][/SUP]will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”


Cain chose wrong.

Had Cain mastered this Sin, the SIN of jealousy, it would not have drove him to commit the SIN of murder.

Likewise had David chose to go to war as he was supposed to do, he would have never been on the balcony to gaze upon Bathsheba. His choice not to go to war as he should, placed him on the balcony, and even then had he closed his eyes and walked away, that original SIN would have been it. But David chose to look, chose to have sex, the chose to lie and then chose to murder. Had David been on the battle field
or chosen to close his eyes and walk away, the original Sin would have been mastered, therefore no other SIN would have been born.



Let him who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall. Yes in Christ we can have power over known sin, but only as our reliance is on Christ and His life in us.
I do not disagree here at all.


That is not referring to victory over sins, it is describing the Spirit inspired new life within us which is the commencement of a life which will finally free us from sin when we are transformed at death..
Sorry the rest of the chapter, refutes this theory.


If you nurture that thought you have committed sin. He w
who looks on a woman to sexually desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
I stated as much.


It is not one of the usual words for sin. It refers to an act of sin by which we stumble. By walking with Christ we should avoid known sin. But as you said yourself it does not mean that we do not sin.
Read the rest of the chapter bro.

Perhaps, or perhaps not. That would depend on how deep her faith became. Whilst He did not 'condemn' in the way that the Pharisees had (to death) He did condemn her sin. He said sin no more.
Jesus stated clear as crystal I do not condemn you, go and sin no more. But here you go saying he condemned her. That is SIN consciousness teaching.


I am not sure you even know my position. I don't think you really read my post. You just jumped to conclusions
Your position seems to be that we are ruled by our SIN nature and do not receive a divine nature at conversion, which is not at all what the Bible teaches us
 
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valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#14
We did have a SIN nature, but when we get saved we become a new creature, completely new creature.
Romans 8.2
For the law of the Spirit of life [SUP][a][/SUP]in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
if we did not have a sinful nature we would cease sinning. we would be perfect like Adam in the GARDEN

We are set free in the fact that it is no longer our master and irresistible.. The flesh still lusts against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh.

Of course it is, but we still have power over it.
Only once it is revealed to us. As Paul said, not that I have attained or am already perfect.,



Gen 4.6-7 says:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? [SUP]7 [/SUP]If you do well, [SUP][a][/SUP]will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”
The choice before all men, but only because our nature's are sinful. That is why Cain fell even at that stage

Cain chose wrong.
true

Had Cain mastered this Sin, the SIN of jealousy, it would not have drove him to commit the SIN of murder.
And had Adam not sinned it would not have happened. It happened because the fall had made men sinners.

Likewise had David chose to go to war as he was supposed to do, he would have never been on the balcony to gaze upon Bathsheba. His choice not to go to war as he should, placed him on the balcony, and even then had he closed his eyes and walked away, that original SIN would have been it. But David chose to look, chose to have sex, the chose to lie and then chose to murder. Had David been on the battle field
or chosen to close his eyes and walk away, the original Sin would have been mastered, therefore no other SIN would have been born.
And you don't think David would have sinned on the battlefield? He would have sinned wherever he was, simply not such a grave sin.


I do not disagree here at all.
good


Sorry the rest of the chapter, refutes this theory.
you have to prove that step by step not say it as though your word could not be questioned. Christians still sin daily. I sin daily. You sin daily. And if you say you don't it shows that you do not understand what sin is

I stated as much.
good

Read the rest of the chapter bro.
Do you really think I have not done it a hundred times? I have written a commentary on it. No man is totally free from sin until after death. If we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.


Jesus stated clear as crystal I do not condemn you, go and sin no more. But here you go saying he condemned her. That is SIN consciousness teaching.
Nonsense. They had brought the woman to be condemned to death Jesus said I will not do it. But if He had not condemned her sin He wold not have said, 'Go and SIN no more lest a worse thing befall you.' That was condemnation of her sin.



Your position seems to be that we are ruled by our SIN nature and do not receive a divine nature at conversion, which is not at all what the Bible teaches us
if you think that is my position then either you can't read or the words get jumbled up in your mind. Try reading what I did say again when you are in a state to think..

your sinful nature is coming out loud and clear,
 
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Aug 17, 2013
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#15
if we did not have a sinful nature we would cease sinning. we would be perfect like Adam in the GARDEN

We are set free in the fact that it is no longer our master and irresistible.. The flesh still lusts against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh.



Only once it is revealed to us. As Paul said, not that I have attained or am already perfect.,





The choice before all men, but only because our nature's are sinful. That is why Cain fell even at that stage



true



And had Adam not sinned it would not have happened. It happened because the fall had made men sinners.



And you don't think David would have sinned on the battlefield? He would have sinned wherever he was, simply not such a grave sin.




good




you have to prove that step by step not say it as though your word could not be questioned. Christians still sin daily. I sin daily. You sin daily. And if you say you don't it shows that you do not understand what sin is



good



Do you really think I have not done it a hundred times? I have written a commentary on it. No man is totally free from sin until after death. If we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.




Nonsense. They had brought the woman to be condemned to death Jesus said I will not do it. But if He had not condemned her sin He wold not have said, 'Go and SIN no more lest a worse thing befall you.' That was condemnation of her sin.





if you think that is my position then either you can't read or the words get jumbled up in your mind. Try reading what I did say again when you are in a state to think..

your sinful nature is coming out loud and clear,
I am Free from The Bond age of sin and Been freed from being a slave to that. Know I am a slave Of Righteousness. I Love God I am a man who needs the Blood. With out the Blood I am nothing only through the Blood the Cross and Power of resurrection can we walk in freedom.
 
B

Breeze7

Guest
#16
I heard it said the biggest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he wasn't real.

That said I take a lite view of sin compared to some. Reason why is like this example. Lets say your a store owner. Someone robs you at gun point. Then you shoot the person as they are trying to get away. Is that sin? The lord gave you free will to act and you succeeded. I just bring it up because in the world there are these grey areas all the time. When things are cloudy I call on the Lord.
 
Jun 30, 2011
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#17
Is this a topic because we don't understand that we have alien righteousness - not a righteousness of our own but that of Christ - we cannot be sinless but we can walk blameless - until we are convicted of sin, then we find confession of that sin and repentance
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
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#19
The meaning of the word perfect in the bible is not the English definition of the word as in sinlessness/unblemished.. but something coming to completion and maturity.

The part of English that reflects the real meaning of it maybe the perfect 'tense' in grammar, where something that has been happening has come to completion.

Greek Strongs numbers: G5048:

τελειόω
teleioō
tel-i-o'-o
From G5046; to complete, that is, (literally) accomplish, or (figuratively) consummate (in character): - consecrate, finish, fulfil, (make) perfect.

and G5056:

τέλειος
teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

So this isn't about sinlessness.. but maturity.

David was considered as mature in His faith.. a great faithful man in Christ.. but he struggled with temptation.

Paul was a great mature man of faith but he wasn't perfect in the sinless sense. This applies to all the great biblical characters aside from Jesus and His angels.
 
Mar 10, 2015
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#20
Is this a topic because we don't understand that we have alien righteousness - not a righteousness of our own but that of Christ - we cannot be sinless but we can walk blameless - until we are convicted of sin, then we find confession of that sin and repentance
Believers are never convicted of sin, the world is. Believers are convicted of unrighteousness.

John 16.5-15 says as much.

Overcoming SIN is not perfection, because nobody was or will be perfect/sinless except for Jesus CHrist.