If you cannot love an eternal torment god

rodgertutt · Feb 16, 2009

If you cannot love an eternal torment god

For the first 500 years after Christ, universalism was the prevailing doctrine believed and taught by the Christian church.
These online books also explain why and how this changed.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.html
http://www.gtft.org/Library/miscellaneous/ChurchFathers.htm
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/OriginandHistory.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/DoctrineOfRetribution.htm

Universalism The Prevailing Doctrine Of The Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years

The author, J.W. Hanson wrote “The purpose of this book is to present some of the evidence of the prevalence in the early centuries of the Christian church, of the doctrine of the final holiness of all mankind. The author believes that the following pages show that Universal Restitution was the faith of the early Christians for at least the First Five Hundred Years of the Christian era. He has aimed to present irrefragable proofs that the doctrine of Universal Salvation was the prevalent sentiment of the primitive Christian church.

The salient statements and facts in all which will be found in these pages show that the most and ablest of the early fathers found the deliverance of all mankind from sin and sorrow specifically revealed in the Christian Scriptures.” And they were reading the Bible in its original language.

Up until now, after reading this post, many believers in eternal torment have said something like, “I truly sympathize with your sufferings, but it’s what the Bible says that matters, not whether or not it makes you suffer.” That’s why I want to say right at the outset that many of the links posted here show that a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible actually teaches universal salvation, not eternal torment, or even annihilation.

I’m 70 years old. The idea that God lets anyone suffer forever has caused me more suffering, including a twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78, than all the other sufferings of my life combined.

This suffering was caused by the fear produced by not being able to love a god who would let anyone suffer forever and wondering what this god would do to me for not being able to love him. Even though I was and am trusting for my salvation in what Jesus accomplished by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, I was, and still am unable to love a god who would let anyone suffer forever. Here are testimonies similar to mine.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/hells_fruit.html

http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/consequences.html

If you are like me and cannot love a god who would let anyone suffer forever, you can copy and paste (if necessary) the following url into the address bar and find out that a literally (not interpretively) translated Bible actually teaches universal salvation, not even annihilation.

Copy and paste into Google
THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES
If necessary, copy and paste the following urls into the address bar.
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/circularity.htm

At the top and bottom of that same THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD page, there is the following link to fourteen other writings in the same series that are related to this same subject.
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm

onwingsaseagles · Feb 16, 2009

rodgertutt said:

Off top this is 100% absolutely untrue.

Romans 1:29-32
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murders, debate, deceit, malignity; whispers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they that commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
So it is not only those that live in sin that are worthy of death, but those that accept it and or take pleasure in those that live in sin.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornication, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Pretty clear, there is no if, and, or buts, those that live in sin will not make it to heaven.

Colossians 3:24-25
24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for you serve the Lord Christ.
25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.
We that serve the Lord shall receive our inheritance, but those that commit sin shall also receive what they deserve. God will not turn a blind eye to your sin, while judging others for theirs, for there is no respect with God. He treats us all equally.

Ephesians 5:1-7
1 Be you therefore followers of God as dear children,
2 And walk in love, as Christ also loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not once be named among you, as becometh saint;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things comes the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
The scripture is clear, no sinner has any inheritance in the kingdom of God nor of Christ. If you partake in the sins of the world you will also partake in the wrath of God with them.

Revelation 21:7-8
7 He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
This passage states that the overcomers shall inherit all things but that all sinners will burn in the lake of fire. So if you claim yourself to be a ''sinner'' saved by grace then you will burn with the sinners. If you think you can continue in sin without consequence you are mistaken.

All sinners will be judged. Whether they say they are saved, believe themselves to be saved. Whether they believe in Jesus or have been baptized or not. No sin nor those who commit sin will enter into Heaven.

So to answer your question what do you do if you cannot love a god that would allow eternal torment. I guess do what you have done and believe in a false doctrine that worships a false god that does not judge sin

rodgertutt · Feb 16, 2009

Salvation out of the lake of fire which is the 2nd death

SALVATION OUT OF THE LAKE OF FIRE WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH

EVERYONE WILL BE SAVED – SOME THROUGH THE FIRE – BUT ALL THROUGH THE BLOOD

Any hell that anyone will experience the Bible calls "kolasis aionian," which means age-during corrective chastisement.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter11.html

It is limited in duration, and corrective in purpose.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
http://www.savior-of-all.com/aionian.html

According to the Bible everyone is going to heaven - some through the fire, but all through the blood.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/circularity.htm

We should desire to experience the lake of fire if God sees that is what we need. That's how much we can relax in the arms of God's love.

It is God’s decretive will (that which MUST occur) that everyone violates His preceptive will (that which they OUGHT to do) as much as they actually do because each person is being fitted into God’s master plan in a way that necessitates their own individual experience with sin, evil and suffering. Then when God consummates His plan for the ages of time He will eradicate sin and suffering from existence after everyone has learned all that God wants them to learn from its temporary existence.
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

The process of salvation will be completed for the firstfruits of election, (the remnant chosen by grace), after the first resurrection. The process of salvation will be completed for the non-elect after the great white throne judgment. For some, it will include an experience in the lake of fire.

But everyone will be saved out of the lake of fire which is the second death.

You may ask, “What scriptural evidence is there of being saved out of the lake of fire which is the second death?"

There actually is much evidence.

Although the book of Revelation is the last book placed in the Bible, it is not the final revelation of what God is going to do with humanity. The apostle Paul saw way beyond John.

Col.1:25 of which I became a dispenser, in accord with the administration of God, which is granted to me for you, to complete the word of God

There is much evidence that Paul did see way beyond John. For instance, in Revelation there are still kings reigning, and Christ is still reigning along with His followers. There are still sovereignties and powers in force throughout the book of revelation. So John did not see the day when all sovereignty, authority and power would be done away. Paul did. If you will look at 1Corinthians 15:24-28 Paul saw the day when all of these would be done away. He sees the day when "He should be nullifying all sovereignty, authority and power" (vs.24)

Paul sees the day when Christ will quit reigning (vs.25).

Paul sees the day when death (all death which includes the second death) will be abolished (vs.26). Please remember that death will be abolished **after** all the sovereignties, authorities and powers in Revelation have been nullified. Within the book of Revelation, death is still operational as are the afore mentioned powers.

So what is going to happen to all these people who are in death when death is abolished?

They will come forth vivified (made alive beyond the reach of death) (1Cor.15:22).
They will have their lives justified and will be constituted righteous:

Romans 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all mankind for life's justifying.
Romans 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just.

All will be reconciled to God (Col.1:20)

All will be headed up in Christ (Eph.1:10)

All will bow the knee in the name of Jesus and acclaim with their tongue that "Jesus Christ is Lord" to the glory of God, the Father (Phil.2:9-11).
And we know that anyone who acclaims that Jesus Christ is Lord, especially when it is to God's glory without any hypocrisy is saved for 1Corinthians 12:3 says so.

So there is proof that people will go to the second death **when ** the new earth comes. And there is proof that this is not the final goal God has for these people.

In summary then:
The lake of fire is the second death.
The apostle John did not see into the future as far as the apostle Paul.
How do I know this? and what ramifications does this have as to whether or not one gets out of the lake of fire...the second death? Plenty.
In the book of revelation Christ is still reigning; death is still operational; sovereignties, authorities and powers are still in force.
In 1Cor.15:22-28 Paul sees way beyond John's revelation.
He sees the day when Christ will quit reigning (1Cor.15:25).
He sees the day when all sovereignties, authorities and powers are nullified (1Cor.15:24).
He sees the day when death is abolished (1Cor.15:26) and all are then subjected to Christ then Christ is subjected to God and then God is All in all (1Cor.15:28).
So, yes, there is scripture which intimates that all in the lake of fire will come forth and God will be All in all.
Also in 1Cor.15:22 all are dying and in Christ shall all be vivified. So this happens after death for most.
Also in Romans 5:18,19 you have what happens to all mankind due to what Adam did which happens to the exact same all mankind due to what Christ did. But it does not happen to all at the exact same time.
Each in his own order.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/TheLakeOfFire-Eby.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/reconciliation-heavens.htm

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm

rodgertutt · Feb 16, 2009

CHART OF GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME

Mistranslation of the Greek word "aion" is a master stroke of diabolical genius. Perhaps no other word erroneously translated, could more effectively pervert man’s image of God and cause such widespread confusion in the church. Because the understanding of the eons and Gods purpose in them has been lost, the church is divided on such important teachings as man's destiny, grace, election, salvation, security of the believer, judgment and other issues. The following work by Joseph E. Kirk is offered in the hope that the serious seeker after scriptural truth will be aided in his quest.
CHART OF GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html
Also see
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/index.html
Also see
TIME AND ETERNITY
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/time/

onwingsaseagles · Feb 16, 2009

You just go from site to site spewing your false teaching, Whether you believe in eternal torment or not you will one day stand before God and answer to why you tried and teach people that they will not suffer for rejecting Christ.
Revelation 21:7-8
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

rodgertutt · Feb 16, 2009

THE TRUTH ABOUT “HELL”

onwingsaseagles said:

My second last post was proof that everyone who enters the lake of fire which is the second death will be saved out of it.

THE TRUTH ABOUT “HELL”

HELL IS LEAVING THE BIBLE FOREVER
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/Hell_is_Leaving_the_Bible_Forever.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/OriginandHistory.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm

People who want to keep believing in the doctrine of "endless hell" will not read the following four articles.
But people who don't want to believe that the Bible teaches "endless hell" will read all four of them and will be filled with great joy at finding out the truth!

(If necessary, copy and paste the following urls into your address bar.)

What Jesus really taught about "hell."
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/jesusteachingonhell.html

What the Bible really teaches about "hell."
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/TheBibleHell.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/hell.htm
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/Hell_is_Leaving_the_Bible_Forever.html

Regarding arguments against the Bible teaching universal salvation, see
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html

Any hell that anyone will experience the Bible calls "kolasis aionian," which means age-during corrective chastisement.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter11.html

It is limited in duration, and corrective in purpose.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
http://www.savior-of-all.com/aionian.html

Copy and paste into Google

tentmaker books chapter eleven
or
Matthew 25:46 - “Aionian” or “Eternal”
or
AIÓN – AIÓNIOS

Regarding the most common argument that the same word for "punishment" is also used for "life" see the following:
http://www.savior-of-all.com/aionian.html

All three of these articles should be studied with care, especially the third one.
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon1.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon2.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon3.html
also see:
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/aion.html
http://concordant.org/version/tranprin.html

onwingsaseagles · Feb 16, 2009

Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT “HELL”

rodgertutt said:

All you prove is that some people will do and say anything to disbelieve God when His truth does not tickle their ears.

rodgertutt · Feb 16, 2009

Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT “HELL”

onwingsaseagles said:

THE ITCHING EARS OF THE ETERNAL TORMENTORS

All eternal tormentors have "itching ears" that like to be scratched by listening to sermons that tell them that only people who believe like they do will avoid suffering forever in hell.

WHY I BELIEVE THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION

http://sigler.org/eby/savior_of_the_word_series.htm

The people who want to keep believing that the Bible proves that everyone deserves to suffer forever in hell just because they were born into this world, or because they don’t make the “right” choice before it’s “too late,” or that God created beings with a will so strong that they can irreversibly choose themselves into a state of eternal torment - these people will keep believing it because they want to.

But people who want to believe that the Bible nowhere supports such a concept of God will examine the evidence contained in HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE at http://concordant.org/expohtml/HisAchievement/index.html

And also here
Information, and frequently asked questions in support of a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaching universal salvation,

http://www.tentmaker.org/bloglinks.htm

http://www.tentmaker.org/sitemap.html

http://www.christian-universalism.com/links.html

copy and paste into address bar if necessary

and they will learn that the Bible actually teaches universal salvation instead, not even annihilation.

Or, they will go to the search engine at the top of http://www.tentmaker.org and will type in a key word or phrase from any argument or scripture passage. Ten articles will come up refuting the claim that the Bible teaches eternal torment. Then they may click to the next page and ten more articles will come up, and so on and so on for many pages.

The many entries in my guestbook that is accessed towards the bottom of my front page

at http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/

and the many entries at http://www.tentmaker.org/visitorcomments.htm
show just how much this information is helping people.

This was the information that enabled me to recover from a twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-68), and it gives me great joy to keep learning every day that it is helping more and more other people too!! I’m 70 years old

Slepsog4 · Feb 16, 2009

HEBREWS 5:9[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]

NIV: and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him[/FONT]

YLT: [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]and having been made perfect, he did become to all those obeying him a cause of salvation age-during,

ASV: [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]and having been made perfect, he became unto all them that obey him the author of eternal salvation

KJV: [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him

NASB: [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation

As clearly illustrated in these and many other translations, salvation is not universal, it is conditional.

If it is universal the commission to preach the gospel in order for people to be saved is ridiculous. Why bother trying to lead people to salvation if they are going to get it anyway?
[/FONT]

rodgertutt · Feb 16, 2009

CORRECTLY TRANSLATED BIBLES

CORRECTLY TRANSLATED BIBLES

One of the important tools for believing that the Bible teaches universal
reconciliation is to use a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible. Here
are several. The ones on line you don't even have to pay for.

CORRECT TRANSLATIONS ONLINE

CONCORDANT http://www.concordant.org/about/index.html
http://www.concordant.org/version/index.html
YOUNG'S LITERAL http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/rylt/rylt.html

OTHER CORRECT TRANSLATIONS NOT ONLINE LISTED AT THE FOLLOWING THREE LINKS
http://www.members.cox.net/tmurr10/aswundivided.html#10
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/Hell_is_Leaving_the_Bible_Forever.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html

Or, if the links don't work, copy and paste into Google any of the following three titles

Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment

Chapter Ten - Bibles Without "Everlasting Punishment"

Hell is leaving the Bible forever

I think the Concordant Literal Translation is the most accurate.
Of the versions not online I like ROTHERHAM'S EMPHASIZED BIBLE the best.

Four scriptural expositions expounding UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION are found at

http://concordant.org/expohtml/HumanDestiny/doubts.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/HumanDestiny/1cor15.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/index.html
http://gtft.org/Library/condon/QuestionsWithoutAnswers.htm

Regarding the most common argument that the same word for "punishment" is also used for "life" see the following:
http://www.savior-of-all.com/aionian.html

All three of these articles should be studied with care, especially the third one.

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon1.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon2.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon3.html
also see:
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/aion.html
http://concordant.org/version/tranprin.html

onwingsaseagles · Feb 16, 2009

Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT “HELL”

rodgertutt said:

This has to be one of the craziest things I have ever heard, people want to believe in Hell. No people believe in Hell because Jesus said is was there plain and simple not because we want to.
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Now as far as having to believe on Christ to not be saved that is also what scripture teaches.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

rodgertutt · Feb 16, 2009

Scriptural proofs that the Bible teaches universal salvation

SCRIPTURAL PROOFS THAT THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/universalism-is-not-in-the-bible.htm

http://richardwaynegarganta.com/Understanding%20Universal%20Salvation%20Part%20One.htm

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ScripturalProofs.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Bible-Proofs-modern.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/fewsaved.htm

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/Hell_is_Leaving_the_Bible_Forever.html

Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html

Also see five scriptural expositions expounding Universal Reconciliation at

http://concordant.org/expohtml/HumanDestiny/doubts.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/HumanDestiny/1cor15.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/index.html

http://gtft.org/Library/condon/QuestionsWithoutAnswers.htm

Regarding the most common argument that the same word for "punishment" is also used for "life" see the following:

http://www.savior-of-all.com/aionian.html

All three of these articles should be studied with care, especially the third one.

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon1.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon2.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/eon3.html

also see

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/aion.html
http://concordant.org/version/tranprin.html
http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm

A little test about the word "ALL" that's found in Scripture.

If Truth is changed to not be all inclusive, when the context renders that it should be it then becomes error.

Reconsider the following Scriptures, without using any preconceived thoughts or forced interpretation upon them. This may be more difficult to do than first realized, because we all resort to an immediate interpretation of something based on our past understandings of the verse.

The darkest doctrine ever devised by men was that of an "eternal suffering" for the billions of souls that die lost without Christ.
Like wolves among the sheep, carnally-minded men within the church system found it very effective to use the fear of an unending hell to control the masses that enter their religion.
Unfortunately this doctrine has remained at large in Christianity as a whole.

The Lord Jesus said, "When I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men to myself." - John 12:32
LOOK AT THE VERSES WITH THE WORD ALL

Savior of all, especially believers (1 Tim 4:9-11)

http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7-EspeciallyThoseThatBelieve.html

God wills that all mankind be saved (1 Tim 2:4)

Operating all in accord with counsel of His will (Eph 1:11)

In Adam all dying; in Christ shall all be vivified (1 Cor 15:21-23)

It says "in Christ shall all," not "all who are in Christ."

One offense for all mankind for condemnation... (Rom 5:18-19)

Lamb of God taking away sin of the world (John 1:29)

Correspondent ransom for all (1 Tim 2:6)

Every knee bowing in the Name of Jesus (Phil 2:9; Is 45:23)
“in” is the literal Greek translation. See Young’s Literal Translation
and every tongue acclaiming that Jesus Christ is Lord.

And we know that anyone who acclaims that Jesus Christ is Lord,
especially when it is to God's glory without any hypocrisy is saved for 1Corinthians 12:3 says so.

Locks all in stubbornness; to be merciful to all (Rom 11:30-32)

All created ... to reconcile all (Col 1:16-20)

He should be tasting death for the sake of everyone (Heb 2:9)

That the world might be saved thru Him (John 3:17)

God was in Christ conciliating the world to Himself (2 Cor 5:18)

For our sins, not ours only but the whole world (1 John 2:2)

onwingsaseagles · Feb 16, 2009

Romans 16:17-18
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

This is you, your god is your belly, and the best you can accomplish, is to deceive some simple minded people, dragging them to hell with you.

NazariteNation · Feb 16, 2009

*shaking head*

What part of "free will" don't you folks understand? The last thing God is going to allow is another rebellion in heaven by allowing a bunch of spoiled, carnal, unappreciative souls into His eternal presence....

onwingsaseagles · Feb 16, 2009

NazariteNation said:

Yes brother the truth is clear, why some want to distort it, I do not know.

Rosinsky · Feb 16, 2009

Roger,

Could you please, without all the links, post what you believe?

RJ!

Baptistrw · Feb 16, 2009

Kind of a bummer he got banned, I was looking forward to seeing his responses lol

onwingsaseagles · Feb 16, 2009

Baptistrw said:

I agree by banning him he will just go to another site and spew this same lie, I have seen him on many sites.

Abing · Feb 16, 2009

***CLOSED***

that was a cult

NazariteNation · Feb 16, 2009

*lol* I knew that was coming...

If you cannot love an eternal torment god

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