Theory of Final Authority

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Makahiya2028

Makahiya2028

Banned
#41
Apr 13, 2015
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#41
#5. You cannot honestly state you have scripture if you believe
only the original manuscripts were given by inspiration of God.
There are no original manuscripts.

2 Corinthians 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty,
not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully;
but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves
to every man's conscience in the sight of God.




 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#42
Jul 31, 2013
36,665
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#42
Makahiya2028 said:

The theses and ante-theses of final authority
are the theological theories of sola scriptura
(the scriptures are the final authority) or sola eccelsia
(the church(s) are the final authority)
and the philosophical theories of ethics inclusive
of everlasting consciousness or everlasting non-existence.
Click to expand...
if and where what affirms itself as the ecclesia contradicts scriptura, it is the scripture that trumps - yes?

the ecclesia owes it's definition to the scriptura and so if it violates the constraints outlayed by the scriptura it is no longer the scriptural "church" -- just as a rational number that cannot be expressed by a ratio of whole numbers is not a rational number at all, ex vi termini, ​proof by contradiction.
 
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G

GodIsSalvation

Banned
#44
Dec 18, 2013
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#44
Whomever was here first and shall be here last is the final authority. So it is made simple, Jesus is.
 
Makahiya2028

Makahiya2028

Banned
#45
Apr 13, 2015
257
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#45



Ok, so, does Jesus come to you in the middle of the night,

sit on your bed and teach you the Book of Revelation ?

Most of us need a Holy Bible .



 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#46
Jul 31, 2013
36,665
13,127
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#46
Makahiya2028 said:
#5. You cannot honestly state you have scripture if you believe
only the original manuscripts were given by inspiration of God.
There are no original manuscripts.

2 Corinthians 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty,
not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully;
but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves
to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
Click to expand...
i'm not sure i follow - what we have today is copied and transcribed - i have to believe that what has been passed down has been faithfully preserved, through the action of the Spirit working through the ecclesia - both to canonize and accurately translate and retain. so if i believe only 'original' i.e. handwritten first-copy material is inspired, i do not have this, and rely on ecclesia to transmit the scriptura . .
you don't mean "new scripture" right?

** smells a separation of variables problem **

** thinks about the holographic principle **
 
Makahiya2028

Makahiya2028

Banned
#47
Apr 13, 2015
257
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#47


#1. All scripture is given by inspiration of God.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:

#5. You cannot honestly state you have scripture if you believe
only the original manuscripts were given by inspiration of God.
There are no original manuscripts.







 
Makahiya2028

Makahiya2028

Banned
#49
Apr 13, 2015
257
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#49
Makahiya2028 said:


#1. All scripture is given by inspiration of God.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:

#5. You cannot honestly state you have scripture if you believe
only the original manuscripts were given by inspiration of God.
There are no original manuscripts.

Click to expand...

Still on point ?

You can't state that you believe all scripture is given by inspiration of God,

profess to have scripture given by inspiration of God

and then state that only the original manuscripts

were scripture given by inspiration of God.

You don't have the original manuscripts .


 
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crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#50
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
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#50
Galahad said:
That's the central critical issue of the Bible. God is. God is our Creator. God is Judge. God is Sovereign. He has revealed Himself and His Will to us through His word, the Bible. Its message is clear: Follow, submit to God. And the Bible explains why we should do that.
Click to expand...
He's also our Savior/Redeemer, otherwise we have a God no different than Allah.
 
Makahiya2028

Makahiya2028

Banned
#51
Apr 13, 2015
257
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#51
Obviously, you cannot honestly state you have scripture if you believe

only the original manuscripts were given by inspiration of God.

#1. All scripture is given by inspiration of God .

#2. You don't have the original manuscripts .

 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#52
Jul 31, 2013
36,665
13,127
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#52
Makahiya2028 said:

Still on point ?

You can't state that you believe all scripture is given by inspiration of God,

profess to have scripture given by inspiration of God

and then state that only the original manuscripts

were scripture given by inspiration of God.

You don't have the original manuscripts .
Click to expand...
thank you, yes

sí, claro.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#53
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
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#53
Even if we had the "original" manuscripts, there would be a question of it's authenticity as well as the problem of tapping into an ancient language's meaning.
We have some thing better than 'thee' original. We have hundreds of fragments, early manuscripts and texts through the centuries. By comparing these we find the high percentage of agreement as well as have a language 'trace' down through the centuries.
 
Makahiya2028

Makahiya2028

Banned
#54
Apr 13, 2015
257
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#54



#6. You cannot honestly say " the bible " or " all bibles "

are given by inspiration of God.
There are over 400 (Christian, Catholic, Cult) Hebrew, Greek, Syrian, Latin,

German, English, etc. bibles which do not match in content, volume or doctrine.

 
Makahiya2028

Makahiya2028

Banned
#55
Apr 13, 2015
257
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#55
#7. You cannot honestly say " the N.T. Greek Text "

or " all N.T. Greek Texts " are given by inspiration of God.

There are over 24 reconstructed (Christian, Catholic, Cult) N.T. Greek Texts

which do not match in content, volume or doctrine.



 
V

Vernon

Banned
#56
Jan 6, 2014
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#56
The sacred scripture was written by men, gathered together by men, translated by men and interpreted by men.

God has spoken through men (mankind) since the beginning and continues to do so to this day, I do not believe divine revelation ended with the apostalic age, and this is obvious in that we do not understand "the way" as first century christians did.

The New Testament was not even gathered together and edited until the 5th century. And the Old Testament was not officially gathered together by the Church until the 16th century.

So no, I do not believe the bible is the final authority, I believe God the Father is the final authority and he has placed all things into the hands of his only begotten Son, Jesus Christ.

No one is saved by proclaiming sola scriptura. Only those born of the Spirit are saved through faith in Jesus Christ by the grace of God. Countless have been saved never having seen a bible.

just a thought.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#57
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
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#57
Makahiya2028 said:
#7. You cannot honestly say " the N.T. Greek Text "

or " all N.T. Greek Texts " are given by inspiration of God.

There are over 24 reconstructed (Christian, Catholic, Cult) N.T. Greek Texts

which do not match in content, volume or doctrine.



Click to expand...
You need to match your posts with the post you are responding to...unless you are carrying on a monologue.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#58
Jul 31, 2013
36,665
13,127
113
#58
Makahiya2028 said:

#6. You cannot honestly say " the bible " or " all bibles "

are given by inspiration of God.
There are over 400 (Christian, Catholic, Cult) Hebrew, Greek, Syrian, Latin,

German, English, etc. bibles which do not match in content, volume or doctrine.

Click to expand...
"all bibles" for sure no; because of content mismatch.
A ∩ [SUP]¬[/SUP]A = ∅
"the bible" needs precise definition - your implication is that (if holding to inspiration-of-original-manuscript-only) it can't be precisely defined? without another source of authority?
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#59
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
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#59
Makahiya2028 said:
#7. You cannot honestly say " the N.T. Greek Text "

or " all N.T. Greek Texts " are given by inspiration of God.

There are over 24 reconstructed (Christian, Catholic, Cult) N.T. Greek Texts

which do not match in content, volume or doctrine.



Click to expand...
99.95% in agreement except cult ones like NWT.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#60
Jul 31, 2013
36,665
13,127
113
#60
crossnote said:
You need to match your posts with the post you are responding to...unless you are carrying on a monologue.
Click to expand...
it's kind of a monologue. he's putting out 12 points.
 
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