For the Homophobes

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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#41
Son, becoming a Christian means a transformation of thought, speech, and behavior. One cannot claim to be a Christian and continue in the same sins that have characterized his life. Repentance means putting one's old life behind with its sinful practices and becoming a NEW creature. If you are suggesting that God accepts one as a Christian while still willingly living in homosexuality then you have a rather misconstrued understanding about the love and patience of God.
You were right until you got to that last sentence, O/H. God is patient. He doesn't expect us to clean our closets out the very first thing. He does expect us to change our minds about our sin -- that is, in fact, what repentance is, a change of mind. It isn't as simple as we've far too long tried to make it, an "about face."

No one cleans up their act immediately. We have erected strongholds throughout our lives. Even those who have been Christians since childhood have a construction company on the side dedicated to building fortresses to protect their favorite sins. It takes time to tear them down. Like the alcoholic's or drug addict's recovery, a component of the believer's progressive sanctification involves relapse.

You and I can't possibly know -- not living in another brother's or sister's mind -- what they think about that sin, or if they "willingly" cling to it. They very likely hate the sin they can't escape, even though the escape is as simple as giving it over to Christ. Sometimes it is just too damn hard to see the obvious -- that our pain is self-inflicted and our answer is in our hearts. Instead we all continue to suffer when we don't have to do so.

Fortunately, our lives are in God's hands, even when we don't live perfectly. Heck, if we could live perfectly, we wouldn't need Christ. But we do. And the reason is because we can't do it alone.
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
#42
To be honest. All I know now is God has shown me great love and understanding and I want everyone to feel that way. Its a rather naive notion but I can pray for it.

I was living in fornication when I come to the Lord myself, and understood that I should not be doing that and gave me warning through a faithful minister of Jesus Christ and fled that.

I did marry the one I was fornicating with (still married to him) God is good, he seeks to teach sinners (and that was me in forication) not to remain in it but flee that, even Paul says the same.

Cussing, and all the like things named that new believers struggle with were my own and came up behind the larger and more necessary things, as I was corrected in a thing, whether through the reproof of scripture or a faithful brother in Jesus Christ leaving off practicing inquity and yeilding to righteousness (over time) and that taking hold moreso happens through grace because sin will not have dominion over you under it, thats the effect of grace through Christ as well.
 
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#43
Son, becoming a Christian means a transformation of thought, speech, and behavior. One cannot claim to be a Christian and continue in the same sins that have characterized his life. Repentance means putting one's old life behind with its sinful practices and becoming a NEW creature. If you are suggesting that God accepts one as a Christian while still willingly living in homosexuality then you have a rather misconstrued understanding about the love and patience of God.
But, remember, Monn, even though no sinners, homosexuals or otherwise, are going to be accepted into the Kingdom of God (That's a present, living, heart style... NOT just Heaven on a cloud someday) we are STILL to constantly and consistently extend love to them each and every day, just as Jesus did. And this means even though they might not have "snapped to attention" with instant obedience to the "Word" because they heard the sound of our magnificent voice, declaring Jesus, we are STILL to keep on loving them. And if they are still living in sin a month later, THEN...... guess what we get to do to these "resisters?" We get to keep on loving them.

Short of them just telling us to shove it, and get out of their face with that "Jesus stuff", we are to continue trying to win them with the love Jesus gave us to use. At that point, we are told to move on...... BUT we are NOT told to write them off. If they come a year later, still living with their "partner", and ask us about Jesus again..... we are to pick it right back up, and continue trying to teach them in love.

Love can be blunt. Love can be direct, but love can NEVER be condemning. That is not part of the Great Commission we were given. We were told to go tell people about Jesus and to make disciples, teaching them. And that commission went no further than that. We were not given permission to condemn them and proclaim any sort of judgment over them.
 
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JonahLynx

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2014
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#44
Yes, God condemns homosexual behavior. But He condemns it no more strongly than any other sin. There are some here who need to think about that.
Well homosexuality was a capital crime in the Old Testament and not all sins resulted in execution, but I agree that we should love everyone equally and treat all sin as sin. :)
 
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atwhatcost

Guest
#45
Mark has something to say to you Mark 12:31 - And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
​How's that working for you? Is assuming others are homophobe actually loving in itself?
 
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atwhatcost

Guest
#46
To be honest. All I know now is God has shown me great love and understanding and I want everyone to feel that way. Its a rather naive notion but I can pray for it.
​Are you sure about that? You started this post by accusing the brothers. Not very loving nor understanding.
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
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#47
Does homophobe mean you feel nauseous over homosexual conduct? What they do to each other? If it do, then I guess I are a homophobe! But I do pray.
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#48
Well homosexuality was a capital crime in the Old Testament and not all sins resulted in execution, but I agree that we should love everyone equally and treat all sin as sin. :)
Many sexual crimes including adultery, fornication, rape, forced incest, as well as murder and other crimes were also capitol crimes. But we get more excited about LGBTs than about anything.
 
Jan 15, 2011
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#49
Today, the world considers love to be something we do to make everyone feel good and accepted. To speak against something is called judgment and hate, but this is a worldly definition and mindset that was not taught by Christ. Yes, many churches are teaching this and pervert Matthew 7 which is a direct exhortation against hypocrisy, not all judgment.

Yes, homosexuality is a sin. So are all other sins. I see that people think that Christians spend too much time focusing on homosexuality when all sins lead to death. However, I also see that homosexuality is a topic always brought up to question Christians. Naturally, when people ask us about homosexuality, we will respond directly to homosexuality. So the fact that we focus on homosexuality is not necessarily a product of focus, but a product of the topic being brought up. Yes sin is sin. There is no mortal sin, venial sin, etc. All sin leads to death and as Christians that is the mind and judgment we operate in. The only sin that cannot be repented of is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, or attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to the enemy.

Let's take a look at Mark 12:29-32 NKJV
29 Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’[e] This is the first commandment.[f] 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’[g] There is no other commandment greater than these.”

What is the love in this Scripture? Agapeo.
Agapeo love is a selfless love. It's a love where we give people what they spiritually need without thought of reciprocity or return. If we look at love in this definition, giving truth, what people spiritually need, IS agapeo love. We can give agapeo love to anyone.. saved or unsaved. This is the love that guides our relationships in life with anyone we encounter, from acquaintances, friends, family, brethren, you name it. We are asked to give agapeo love to all mankind.
This does NOT mean that we should blindly tolerate sin in anyone. It means we give them what they spiritually need, not what they want or think according to the natural mind and understanding.

God's love is given to us as well through everything He does. Remember, a natural father will correct, rebuke, and chasten their own children. God does this to us as well. In fact, the bible says that if we are without chastisement, we are illegitimate children. As this love may not feel good for the moment it does produce fruit! He prunes His branches, and when He cuts away that which displeases Him, it does not feel good to our flesh. The light of God exposes darkness and He wants us to remove that in our lives and allow Him to change us.

The bible says that we do not judge those outside the body because God judges them. We do judge those who are inside the body of Christ, not by heart motive as we cannot judge the heart, but we judge the actions, doctrine, beliefs, etc.

To love someone does not mean we have to agree with their lifestyle, ways, and sin. When it comes to homosexuality or ANY sin, to love someone will be to give them the truth and show them that there is a way out of that sin. We do have to show them that the sin they may be living in is not acceptable in the eyes of God. Granted our language should be seasoned when speaking to those outside the body, we cannot in any way accept or tell that person that it's OK to live in that lifestyle or continue on in that lifestyle. This includes brethren who may be living in sin as well.

Romans 1:28-32 NKJV
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[c] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[d] unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.


This scripture speaks of the unrighteousness of mankind and God's judgment of those who are unrighteous. Lets take a look a the last verse 32. It says that those who know the righteous judgment of God and practice sin are deserving of death as well as those who approve of those who practice them.

This is a strict condemnation of the approval of sin. Approving of those who practice sin is tacit approval of that sin. What does this As Christians, it has been stated before that we are new creations. As we are born of light, we must walk in light. As we listen to the Holy Spirit and allow Him to guide our lives, we allow God to change us and are changed by God. Our ways no longer follow the former man, but become God's ways. We cannot as ambassadors of Christ be found in hypocrisy to the word of God and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
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To stand against homosexuality is not homophobia. If we are following the ways of God, it is something He has asked us to do by standing against the ways of the world and sin. How do we approach the world and the topic of homosexuality? Well if we know that we cannot tolerate homosexuality and be found in hypocrisy, we do have to make a stand. Do we condemn those who are homosexuals? No. We bring them love by giving them the truth with words seasoned with salt. We understand that they are living in sin, but at the same time we cannot approve of their lifestyle and ways. This goes for all who live in sin.

We do have to be careful in our approach to those who are in sin. Testimony of how the Lord delivered us from sin, how sin no longer has power in our lives and how we continue to resist and stand against sin is one way to show them love. A lifestyle without hypocrisy allows the light of Christ in us to shine forth and draw people near. It is a very difficult and tricky sin to address, but in all of our evangelism we cannot in any way show tolerance of sin. The Holy Spirit will show us and give us the words to use if we listen to Him. He will show us who is ready to hear His truth and when to give seeds of truth.

As God prepares the ground in the hearts of those who are in the world, they will be more readily willing and able to listen to us give God's truth. Show them the good news of the gospel. Show them that in Christ there is no more death. Show them the beauty of our faith and how all mankind can escape the coming judgment and second death by believing in the one God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Jesus Christ is the door that all mankind needs to enter to receive eternal life and live in His kingdom, and He has given His life for them already. All we need to do is accept this gift He has given us much like the wedding proposal of the Ketubah (ancient Jewish wedding ceremony). We count the costs, die to self, and die to the ways of the world. Accept His sacrifice by death and resurrection and we are reborn as the new man, born of God and light. God never promises us an easy path to take, but in the end, it's all worth it. :)
 
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Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
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#50
People continue to cling to things which are wrong, addictions and of course homosexuality. Some Christians seem to think that homosexuality is on par with the unforgivable sin and all homosexuals regardless if they know Christ as thier saviour should be burned in the lake of fire.


Homosxuality is not right, but its no different from any other sin, apart from the fact that it is a sin that the modernist secular world has deemed there is nothing immoral about it and passed laws to say its perfectly fine to be homosexual.

It is our job to bring people to Christ, it is then Christ and the Holy Spirit who transform the person, we can advise and guide, but telling homosexuals they are filth and disgusting will only simply drive people from Christ.
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#51
To stand against homosexuality is not homophobia. If we are following the ways of God, it is something He has asked us to do by standing against the ways of the world and sin. How do we approach the world and the topic of homosexuality?
We should include it as being one of several more serious worldly sins, not focusing directly on homosexuality or LGBT lifestyles. If we get led into that by the world, shame on us. The fact is, we do focus on homosexuality. We need to stop. We should loving speak of Christ's death on the cross as having paid for our sins -- us personally, but lead from that into a discussion of how all are lost, all need that salvation.

If we let ourselves be led into a discussion of homosexual behavior, that's our fault. We are letting the world then set the agenda, and once that happens, we have lost them. Rather we deflect their effort to focus on the one sin the world likes, and make it a discussion about all sin, and the need of all for a Savior who is Christ.

If we can't manage that, we need to pack it up and go home. We prove the world is right in calling us homophobes if it is the discussion we decide to have with the world. Letting the world define sin, define the discussion of sin, is a recipe for failure.
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
#52
1 Cr 6:18 Flee fornication.

Every sin that a man doeth is without the body;

but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

Its fornication (or sex outside of marriage) but men with men or women with women
 

JonahLynx

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2014
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#53
Many sexual crimes including adultery, fornication, rape, forced incest, as well as murder and other crimes were also capitol crimes. But we get more excited about LGBTs than about anything.
Yes, and these were also condemned more strongly than other sins. Just because churches generally view adultery with less distaste than homosexuality does not mean homosexuality becomes equally severe "as any other sin." Not every sin is labeled an abomination and not every sin demanded execution under the law of Moses.
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
#54
Yes its Gods job to judge them. Not ours.

God already judged homosexuality as sin.Its not judging to state what the Bible says.And loving a person has nothing to do with agreeing with their lifestyle.Nor does it make one homophobic.
 

Radius

Senior Member
Feb 11, 2013
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#55
Doesnt he also condemn divorce? People dont seem to hate that. Im just repeating what I read but It says There is no other command greater then that.
I really do condemn divorce. It is awful and tears apart families that God has put together. The Bible also says that God "hates" divorce.
 

Radius

Senior Member
Feb 11, 2013
1,138
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#56
God already judged homosexuality as sin.Its not judging to state what the Bible says.And loving a person has nothing to do with agreeing with their lifestyle.Nor does it make one homophobic.
this is true. A homo"phobe" fears homosexuals. I am not scared or live in "fear" of homosexuals. I just don't agree with their chosen lifestyle.
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
#57
They created that word to demonize folks who dont embrace what they do.

Those who are afraid of them are just whack jobs
 

Monnkai

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2014
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#58
Well I apologize then I did not mean to come across that way.
 

Monnkai

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2014
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#59
Im simply saying we should show love to everyone I said nothing about agreeing. I know its a sin.
 

Monnkai

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2014
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#60
Thanks for the discussion everyone im learning alot God Bless