Spiritual law

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Jan 7, 2015
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In Matthew 5:18 we read; “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. We know for a fact that heaven and earth has not passed away yet, so just what is Jesus saying here? Many claim the law is made void by grace and faith, and totally done away with; but Jesus tells us different. Even Paul said in Romans 3:31; “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

This thread is not a debate over whether or not we are saved or justified by the works of law, because I know of a Truth we are saved by Grace through faith. But the main point of this thread is to show others that there are actually 2 laws at work, which are also determined by 2 separate mindsets; one which is
flesh, and the other which is Spirit. The flesh of the law(carnal ordinances) was fulfilled for us and nailed to the cross in Jesus’ own flesh, but the Spirit of the law remains and is established in those who are born again of God’s Spirit. Just as it is written in
Hebrews 10:9; “Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He takes away the first, that he may establish the second.”


I have written several posts in the past about this natural law, and spiritual law (which shall be fulfilled before heaven and earth pass) but very few truly understand what it is I am saying, as I know it is hard to grasp.
So instead of trying to explain to you what I mean by natural law (outward ordinances) and spiritual law (prophecy ) I will just give you a few examples we are already given in scripture. I will give the carnal commandment first (natural law), and then I’ll give the spiritual law (prophecy) fulfillment of it as it is also revealed to us in scripture.

In
Hebrews 10:1 we are told; the law was a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of those things. In this we see the natural (letter of the law) was given as a sign, and many of the carnal ordinances were just a reflection of the true spiritual to come, which would also be fulfilled as Jesus said. Just as the Lord also told the children of Israel that many of the commandments, statutes, and judgments would be for a sign between the Lord and them.

Deuteronomy 6:8; “And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.” And even the Sabbaths were given as a sign as seen here in Ezekiel 20:12; “Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.”


With that in mind let me try to show you what I mean by natural law being transformed into the spiritual law of prophecy, which can only be seen and heard by the renewing of your mind, or viewed spiritually as prophecy.

The first sign we will look at is the sign of the Covenant God made with Abraham and his seed, which as the Lord also told Abraham would be a token (sign) in his
flesh by way of the outward circumcision.
Genesis 17:10; “This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.” And then we see the sign also confirmed here in Romans 4:11; “And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:”

And now here we see the true spiritual meaning of that
natural sign being fulfilled in us spiritually.
Romans 2:29; “But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.”

So we see the commandment was first received
outwardly as a sign, only later to be understood and fulfilled spiritually, and received inwardly by the Spirit. Just as it is written in
2 Corinthians 3:3; “Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.


Here’s another example most already know, but it speaks of the same, and of how the natural (letter of the law) was just a reflection of the greater glory to come spiritually. Exodus 12:21; “Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover.”

And then the spiritual fulfillment in the Lamb of God
1 Corinthians 5:7; “Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:”

And again the
carnal commandment in the feast of unleavened bread
Exodus 13:3;“And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place: there shall no leavened bread be eaten.”

And then the spiritual fulfillment in
Matthew 16:6; “Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. Matthew 16:11; “How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Matthew 16:12; “Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.”

And again the
carnal commandment in the first ripe of the first fruits of the harvest seen in the natural law in
Exodus 23:19; “The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God…”

And then the spiritual fulfillment of the law in
1 Corinthians 15:20; “But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. James 1:18; “Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.”

And again the
carnal commandment in
Leviticus 23:15; “And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete: Leviticus 23:16; “Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.”

Continued on next...
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#2
And then the spiritual fulfillment of the natural law at Pentecost (50 days) Acts 2:1; “And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.”

And again the
carnal command in the new meat offering (=Gentiles)
Numbers 28:26;“Also in the day of the firstfruits, when ye bring a new meat offering unto the LORD, after your weeks be out, ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work:”

And then the spiritual new meat offering revealed to us by Paul in
Romans 15:16; “That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.”

So by those few examples we see by scripture that the
carnal commandment (letter of the law) was just a shadow of the greater glory to later be revealed, and fulfilled in a spiritual way. But make no mistake, all of that hidden spiritual law has not yet been fulfilled, and will not all be fulfilled until the first heaven and earth pass away as Jesus said. And with that understanding, perhaps one would even look at the old natural law in a new and spiritual way by the Holy Spirit and mind of Christ.


2 Corinthians 3:7-8; “
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:[SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?”


It is the
veil of the flesh that keeps a man from seeing the spiritual law of God.
Romans 7:14; “For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.”
The enmity between the mind of the flesh and the mind of the Spirit must first be abolished in order to see and hear what the Spirit is saying in the natural law.

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;” Hebrews 9:10 “Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” But even those carnal ordinances that were to be removed symbolized other spiritual things.

For the
carnal mind sees with the eyes of flesh (outwardly by appearance) but the mind of the Spirit searches the deep things of God and sees with the mind of Christ (inwardly). So judge not the spiritual law only by outward appearances, but search the hidden treasures in it by the Spirit.
John 7:24 “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”
 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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#3
Romans 8:2-8
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
#4
Sure cant add to that, very good posts InSpiritInTruth
 
Apr 9, 2015
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Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what Law? of works? Nay: but by the Law of Faith.-----> which is Spiritual and is in each and every Genuine Believer... indeed
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#7
Yes, the Promise, which is by faith came before the law, and so the law of works cannot make void the Promise.

Romans 4:13
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.


Galatians 3:17
And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
#8
Does the question Paul ask seem to be springboarded off this thought?

Psalm 119:126 It is time for thee, LORD, to work:
for they have made void thy law.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith?
God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

As if that was an argument that was presented?
 
Apr 9, 2015
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#9
Yes, the Promise, which is by faith came before the law, and so the law of works cannot make void the Promise.

Romans 4:13
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.


Galatians 3:17
And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
the sign of circumcision which is the 'seal of the Righteousness of the Faith of God.

Did Abraham 'receive' that when he was Circumcised or in un circumcision

aweee..... Un Circumcision... so that the Righteousness of the Law will be by FAITH, and not the works of the Law,

you see God was even foreshadowing the Righteousness of God in Abrahams' test'.. the Righteousness of God, Faith in Christ's Work, not the Works of the Law, this evident because Abraham received the Seal of the Righteousness of God , by Faith, when he was in un circumcision! oh those little nuggets of Truth, indeed!
 
Apr 9, 2015
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#10
the sign of circumcision which is the 'seal of the Righteousness of the Faith of God.

Did Abraham 'receive' that when he was Circumcised or in un circumcision

aweee..... Un Circumcision... so that the Righteousness of the Law will be by FAITH, and not the works of the Law,

you see God was even foreshadowing the Righteousness of God in Abrahams' test'.. the Righteousness of God, Faith in Christ's Work, not the Works of the Law, this evident because Abraham received the Seal of the Righteousness of God , by Faith, when he was in un circumcision! oh those little nuggets of Truth, indeed!
the sign of Circumcision, a physical one. but thru Faith in Christ, that circumcision comes via the Work of the paraclete, on the HEART, THRU the Spirit of Truth.. indeed! nullifying the 'outward works of the Law' as justification. indeed!
 
Apr 9, 2015
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#11
the sign of Circumcision, a physical one. but thru Faith in Christ, that circumcision comes via the Work of the paraclete, on the HEART, THRU the Spirit of Truth.. indeed! nullifying the 'outward works of the Law' as justification. indeed!

and Abraham being in un circumcision when he recieved the Seal of Faith, this pointing towards the Gentiles also obtaining the Salvation God has prepared for them.. that they may have the Righteousness of God Imputed onto them upon Genuine conversion..
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#12
Does the question Paul ask seem to be springboarded off this thought?

Psalm 119:126 It is time for thee, LORD, to work:
for they have made void thy law.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith?
God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

As if that was an argument that was presented?
Might be 2 different uses of the word there in "void", Psalm 119:126 seems to suggest "breaking the law".... to break, frustrate

And Romans 3:31 definition seems to be ...."to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative....also....to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish"

So the thought might be different between the 2 verses.
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
#13
Void in relation to both the law (in the OT) and faith (in relation to the law) in the NT are mentioned here in all three

Psalm 119:126 It is time for thee, LORD, to work:
for they have made void [SUP]H6565 [/SUP]thy law.

Romans 3:21
Do we then make void [SUP]G2673 [/SUP]the law through faith?
God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 4:14
For if they which are of the law be heirs,
faith is made void, [SUP]G2758[/SUP] and the promise made of none effect: [SUP]G2673

[/SUP]All three are different words, but reading between the two, it was as if Paul expounding the way he did was as if off of that statement in the psalms, as if answering for it or something.

Certainly appears that way, establish is used in Romans (to the contrary of the word void there) and made void along with the promise being made of none effect are used together. They seem to reason nicely out between the law and the testimony nicely.

Thanks, just thought I would ask on that one to see what you might have caught there.




 
Dec 26, 2014
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#14
seems like almost everyone forgot that everyone is consigned under the law. no matter if they are saved or condemned,\

no matter if they are yahweh's chosen people or the gentiles,

everyone, everyone on earth, was consigned under the law. everyone either obeys the law or disobeys.

those who disobey, it doesn't matter what else they do, they are lost.

those who obey, IF THEY GRUMBLE, they are punished for not joyfully willingly doing the father's will.

those who obey, IF THEY OBEY JOYOUSLY, are rewarded.

whether they have faith or not, what difference does that make ? only this ---

IF THEY HAVE FAITH, then and only then

are they able to joyously hear the father and do as he says. it is simply that simple! HIS CHILDREN LOVE AND OBEY HIM. they hang on his every WORD, listening intently for his hearts desire, eager to please him like a 3 year old is eager to please his father (in a healthy family).

if they are not his children, they cannot(they willfully refuse also to) hear him, as it is written >>

if they do not have faith, they remain lost with all the rest of the gentiles who are lost.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#15
those who disobey, it doesn't matter what else they do, they are lost.

those who obey, IF THEY GRUMBLE, they are punished for not joyfully willingly doing the father's will.

those who obey, IF THEY OBEY JOYOUSLY, are rewarded.

whether they have faith or not, what difference does that make ?
so faith doesn't make a difference to salvation? our works are what makes the difference?

this is nothing short of an open rejection of the gospel...
 
Dec 26, 2014
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#16
the only thing shorter is your reading ability and comprehension (lack thereof). go back and read again - all the way through this time,
or just pray and read the bible and hope the father is still willing to grant mercy.


so faith doesn't make a difference to salvation? our works are what makes the difference?

this is nothing short of an open rejection of the gospel...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#17
the only thing shorter is your reading ability and comprehension (lack thereof). go back and read again - all the way through this time,
or just pray and read the bible and hope the father is still willing to grant mercy.
i read the whole thing...

you rejected the role that faith plays in salvation according to the gospel of grace...except insofar as you tried to redefine faith to basically make it equivalent to works...

it was really one of the most egregiously heretical posts this forum has ever had...which is ironic coming from someone who accuses everyone else of heresy and lack of salvation in just about every post...

incidentally your reply shows that you obviously failed to understand the meaning of the word 'short' as in 'nothing short of'...so much for reading ability...
 
Dec 26, 2014
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#18
in this and your other posts today you show a complete lack of understanding.

you have denied the truth here, and twisted your words to make it look the way you want to.

"in short" , your premises and your conclusions are completely in error.

i read the whole thing...

you rejected the role that faith plays in salvation according to the gospel of grace...except insofar as you tried to redefine faith to basically make it equivalent to works...

it was really one of the most egregiously heretical posts this forum has ever had...which is ironic coming from someone who accuses everyone else of heresy and lack of salvation in just about every post...

incidentally your reply shows that you obviously failed to understand the meaning of the word 'short' as in 'nothing short of'...so much for reading ability...
 
Dec 26, 2014
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#19
"IF THEY HAVE >>>FAITH<<<, then and only then

are they able to joyously hear the father and do as he says. "



.............................................
SIMPLE


how could anyone miss it ???
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
#20
To be perfectly honest with you Jeff_56 I had even missed what you were saying in your post, so I suppose its only natural to stand in doubt of anyone else who feels certain they actually understood what you said (in order to accuse you by it) lol

Just a little lighthearted humor on that one.

Your own post could actually be your alibi