The Beginnings of Preterism

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
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#1
Often Preterists and others will try to prove their validity by how long they have been hanging around or how much a Johnny-Come-Lately another group is and thus can't be taken seriously.

Ok, ok, granted Preterists have been around since the time of Paul but that gives no guarantee of one's accuracy...

But shun profane babblings, for they will advance to greater impiety, and their word will have a feeding field like gangrene, of whom are Hymenaeus and Philetus, men who missed the mark about the truth, saying the resurrection happened already, and they overthrow the faith of some. (2Ti 2:16-18)

It all goes to show that age of a doctrine is not an automatic reason to believe it, but rather does it line up with Scripture.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,850
1,565
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#2
Often Preterists and others will try to prove their validity by how long they have been hanging around or how much a Johnny-Come-Lately another group is and thus can't be taken seriously.

Ok, ok, granted Preterists have been around since the time of Paul but that gives no guarantee of one's accuracy...

But shun profane babblings, for they will advance to greater impiety, and their word will have a feeding field like gangrene, of whom are Hymenaeus and Philetus, men who missed the mark about the truth, saying the resurrection happened already, and they overthrow the faith of some. (2Ti 2:16-18)

It all goes to show that age of a doctrine is not an automatic reason to believe it, but rather does it line up with Scripture.
exactly as long as you know that there are among you those who are beheaded for their testimony in Christ,then in such we
also know that the rapture cannot prevent those who are dead in Christ,hence if tomorrow someone will die because they "will not deny Jesus",,the first Resurrection of the dead has not taken place.
 
May 21, 2014
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#3
  1. Preterism is a Christian eschatological view that interprets prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. Daniel is interpreted as events that happened in the second century BC, while Revelation is interpreted as events that happened in the first century AD.

    [h=1]Preterism[/h]Preterism is a view in Christian eschatology which holds that some or all of the biblical prophecies concerning the Last Days refer to events which took place in the first century after Christ's birth, especially associated with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, meaning past, since this view deems certain biblical prophecies as past, or already fulfilled.

    Preterism - Theopedia, an encyclopedia of Biblical Christianity
    Preterism is most dramatically contrasted with Futurism, the view that most prophecies regarding the End times, and passages referring to Last Days, Great Tribulation, and Judgment are still future and will immediately precede thereturn of Christ. Proponents of preterist views generally fall in one of two categories: Partial Preterism or Full Preterism.


    [h=3]Partial Preterism[/h]
    • Gentry, Kenneth L., Jr. Perilous Times: A Study in Eschatological Evil. Texarkana, AR: Covenant Media Press, 1999.
    • Gentry, Kenneth L., Jr. The Beast of Revelation, Revised Edition. Powder Springs, GA: American Vision, 2002.
    • R. C. Sproul, The Last Days According to Jesus: When Did Jesus Say He Would Return? Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 1998.
    • Larry T. Smith, The Coming of the Lord, the Last Days, and the End of the World as Taught by Jesus and His Apostles. El Campo, TX: Rightly Dividing the Word, 2000.
    [h=3]Full preterism[/h]
    • Kelly Nelson Birks, The Comings of Christ: A Reformed and Preterist Analogy of the 70th Week of the Prophet Daniel. 1st Books, 2002.
    • John S. Evans, The Four Kingdoms of Daniel: A Defense of the "Roman" Sequence with AD 70 Fulfillment. Xulon Press, 2004.
    • Ward Fenley, The Second Coming of Jesus Christ Already Happened. Sacramento: Kingdom of Sovereign Grace, 1997.
    • Samuel M. Frost, Misplaced Hope: The Origins of First and Second Century Eschatology. Colorado Springs: Bimillennial Press, 2002.
    [h=3]Critics of Full Preterism from Partial Preterist viewpoint[/h]
    • Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr., He Shall Have Dominion: A Postmillennial Eschatology, Second Edition. Tyler, TX: Institute for Christian Economics, 1997. [See Appendix C: “A Brief Theological Critique of Hyper-Preterism.”]
    • Mathison, Keith A.
      • Postmillennialism: An Eschatology of Hope. Phillipsburg, NJ: Presbyterian and Reformed, 1999. [See Appendix C.]
      • Editor, When Shall These Things Be? A Reformed Response to Hyper-Preterism. Phillipsburg, NJ: P&R Publishing Co., 2003. [Mathison contributes one chapter to this work.]
    • Jay E. Adams, Preterism: Orthodox or Unorthodox? Stanley, NC: Timeless Texts, 2003. Preterism - Theopedia, an encyclopedia of Biblical Christianity

 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
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#4
Preterism would make more sense than futurism, if taken purely literally.

What I mean is that a preterist would view Christs return as imminent if taken literally and a futurist would be waiting for certain other literal events before Christ returns.

So if you misunderstand what scripture says about eschatology, which seems highly likely, it would be best to not discount any one theory that includes the imminent return of Christ.

That's just my thought. I don't think my views on eschatology would fit in one category. Do they have to?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
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#5
Preterism would make more sense than futurism, if taken purely literally.

What I mean is that a preterist would view Christs return as imminent if taken literally and a futurist would be waiting for certain other literal events before Christ returns.

So if you misunderstand what scripture says about eschatology, which seems highly likely, it would be best to not discount any one theory that includes the imminent return of Christ.

That's just my thought. I don't think my views on eschatology would fit in one category. Do they have to?
As I understand it the full preterist believe Christ has already returned (hence my OP) and the partial preterist believes all the events in Revelation already happened (in 70 AD?)
except Christ's Second Coming.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#6
I wish I could remember where the article was on the web, but there was an article about Replacement Theology and Preterism, the likes of Augustine and moving forward, where some writers were eager to take scripture they didn't understand and insert the Roman church into it, ignorance and a power play, at the expense of future prophecies involving Israel. This spawned antisemitism to this day, claiming God's eternal promises to Israel (!) revoked and the Jews cast off. Also, what was quite interesting, is the article's claim that part of wanting to jazz-up Revelation to be a Catholic allegory was kings didn't like the idea they were enemies of Christ and would be put down, their oxen destined to be gored, their dynasties destroyed, or the notion that their every whim is of God questioned. Hence Catholicism felt politically compelled by the guys with the armies and happy to oblige that it was the Roman church that would first make the world Roman Catholic, bring in the Christian spiritual kingdom of the Pope (which would't muck with their power, mind you), then, as if only then, Christ would be allowed to return. So, blue bloods, no sweat: do the Catholic dance, and we've got your back. This was even more reason for kings to make sure the world didn't get more scripture or righteous! It was a fascinating, fresh study of the evils of Preterism I wished I'd saved. Anyway, here's a little video that puts the basic lie to Preterism,

[video=youtube;9Uxy0V8LQHg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uxy0V8LQHg[/video]​
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#7
As I understand it the full preterist believe Christ has already returned (hence my OP) and the partial preterist believes all the events in Revelation already happened (in 70 AD?)
except Christ's Second Coming.
Then the preterist is not in agreement with the orthodox creeds, such as the Nicene Creed and Apostles' Creed.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,195
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#8
I don't really care about all these 'isms.......either way........God's in control...........but I am curious to know why some discount that Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD..........? Was that just made up?
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#9
I don't really care about all these 'isms.......either way........God's in control...........but I am curious to know why some discount that Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD..........? Was that just made up?

Nobody should be discounting that Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD, but what we should not be doing is placing the GT or the A.O.D. at this point. Neither descriptions of those two events fit the 70 AD event, as the temple was destroyed and not a pagan worship done within it as Daniel referred to. Plus there have been several events worse then that since then, and the GT says there will be no time worse then that time.

The only biblical reference referring to the 70 AD event is in Daniel 9:26 which refers to the people of the prince to come will destroy the temple. The Roman empire destroyed the temple in 70 AD, and there for the man of sin a.k.a. antichrist a.k.a. prince of this world will come out from here.
Turkey was part of the Roman empire and in Revelation 2:13 and 13:2 show that satan's seat (throne) is here and given to the man of sin.
 
Jan 6, 2014
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#10
Often Preterists and others will try to prove their validity by how long they have been hanging around or how much a Johnny-Come-Lately another group is and thus can't be taken seriously.

Ok, ok, granted Preterists have been around since the time of Paul but that gives no guarantee of one's accuracy...

But shun profane babblings, for they will advance to greater impiety, and their word will have a feeding field like gangrene, of whom are Hymenaeus and Philetus, men who missed the mark about the truth, saying the resurrection happened already, and they overthrow the faith of some. (2Ti 2:16-18)

It all goes to show that age of a doctrine is not an automatic reason to believe it, but rather does it line up with Scripture.
In Each generation (70)yrs you have an entire new group of believers who are building on the last generation because this is their closest advisors and mentors. From 33ad until 315ad the Christian Faith was considered illegal and persecuted by the state (Roman Empire) millions were martyred over these initial years, but the Church was faithful to the teachings of the apostles and the early church fathers and grew in followers.
In 315ad Constantine made the Christian Faith legal and the state recognized it as a true religion. From that time the church became influenced by the state and lost its innocents in Christ. It was given power by the world and clinged to that power over the power which is in Christ. In around 380ad the Christian Faith became the only religion recognized by the state, making all other religions illegal. And this is when the church became the persecuter and the other religions were exterminated. This is when Christianity justified war and sought to destroy all other religions. The doctrine error can not be understood without this knowledge of how Christians now in power did not love but hated and persecuted all who refused to submit to Jesus Christ.
From 380ad until the 7th century the Christian Faith reigned supreme and many were put to death for refusal to submit to Christianity. It is as if the Church divorced Jesus and married the state.
Then Islam was born (anti-Christ) and gained support because of the harsh treatment by Christians. And Islam over ran and took control of much of the Middle East including the Holy Land. The church of the east was forced to submit to Islam to avoid extermination, while the western powers (Pope) did little to stop this Islamic overthrow of eastern Christendom. By 1054ad this strain between east and west reached an apex and the east separated form the Bishop of Rome ( known as the great Schism).
The Pope and western civization tried to reunite with the east orthodox but not by love but by war against Islam (crusades). These attempts proved futile, because God wants us to convert by love and sacrifice. So the eastern Christians were persecuted by Islam while the western church grew in power with the state. Islam dominated the east from the 7th century into the 19th century building a divide between west and east Christians which is to this day divided.
Because western Christianity was married to the state, they became corrupted and desired only worldly power. They terrified the masses and would execute anyone who questioned their authority. Within this horrific time in church history the printing press was invented and by the 15th century the educated Christians in the west had easy access to the scriptures and soon recognized how the RCC had corrupted the faith, and so brave reformers spoke out and got support from the nations that they dwelled in.
The reformation was a mix of returning to the apostalic teachings and nations separating from Rome with war, so the reformers in the end exchanged state power controlled by the pope to national power controlled by the kings of western nations, so while they did return to the scriptural teaching they still submitted themselves to the nations who supported them, still justifying war and execution of those who refused to submit to their power. So we had the reformation and counter-reformation neither of which resolved Christians desire for hatred and war , which we know is not of Christ.
Even a simpleton could see that Christendom was not abiding in truth which led to the spiritual awaking of the 19th century that produced many cults attempting to return to 'real Christianity', but in separating from the traditional churches they soon fell into all manner of heresy.
So now we find ourselves in a very confusing and unfounded expression of the faith (great apostacy). From this reality we know that the Son of Perdition is soon to be revealed, and the end of the age is at hand.

i apologize for the long thread, just felt it needs to be realize in this age where people are rewriting history.

Christ be with you always.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#11
Often Preterists and others will try to prove their validity by how long they have been hanging around or how much a Johnny-Come-Lately another group is and thus can't be taken seriously.

Ok, ok, granted Preterists have been around since the time of Paul but that gives no guarantee of one's accuracy...

But shun profane babblings, for they will advance to greater impiety, and their word will have a feeding field like gangrene, of whom are Hymenaeus and Philetus, men who missed the mark about the truth, saying the resurrection happened already, and they overthrow the faith of some. (2Ti 2:16-18)

It all goes to show that age of a doctrine is not an automatic reason to believe it, but rather does it line up with Scripture.
I have an idea..... Since we live in a time where men call evil good & good evil, & the preterists openly proclaim the futurist doctrine as a disinformation if you would, perhaps the story needs to be flipped...... The 1st one IS the disinformation to throw off christians from looking for the rapture & make it easier for the Antichrist to be received as the Lord & the "left behind" church says, "see, we're still here, nothing has changed, those futurists had it all wrong."

IF futurism is false, the futurists will still be prepared & have an opportunity to do last-minute evangelization; IF preterism is false, the preterists won't see the judgement coming.

Just a hypothesis...... something to think about.
 
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S

Sophia

Guest
#12
It is hard to believe in full futurism. Some prophecies have certainly been fulfilled.

The issue with the term preterism is that it includes over a dozen opposing viewpoints and theological structures, ranging from
"Christ returned in the 1st century"
to
"most of the OT prophecy is fulfilled, minus the future dominion aspects, but little of the NT prophecy is fulfilled."

Preterism should be viewed with individual prophecies in mind rather than a broad sweeping generalization.
I hold most of Daniel as fulfilled, except for the "conclusion" parts of each prophecy. That makes me a "partial preterist", right alongside the "futurists" of dispensationalism.
We all agree that Daniel prophesied about Mr. Epiphanies and his reign of terror, right? Partially fulfilled. Partial preterism.
 
S

Sophia

Guest
#13
I have an idea..... Since we live in a time where men call evil good & good evil, & the preterists openly proclaim the futurist doctrine as a disinformation if you would, perhaps the story needs to be flipped...... The 1st one IS the disinformation to throw off christians from looking for the rapture & make it easier for the Antichrist to be received as the Lord & the "left behind" church says, "see, we're still here, nothing has changed, those futurists had it all wrong."

IF futurism is false, the church will still be prepared & have an opportunity to do last-minute evangelization; IF preterism is false, many won't see the judgement coming.

Just a hypothesis...... something to think about.
Yes, full preterism does create a very lax, religious, cultural, traditional, lukewarm faith.
However, full futurism often places salvational emphasis upon structures that are not meant to bear the weight of Salvation.

A partial preterist and a futurist both know that tomorrow is not guaranteed for any individual or even the world. This mindset, given clearly within Scripture, motivates us on in the pursuit of holiness/righteousness, discipleship, and evangelism.

Being prepared for His Return has to do with our faith and trust in Him,
not our view of Kingdom prophecy, or of the future/past of Israel, or our view of the Tribulation.