Keeping the law = Salvation (Right???)

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 25, 2015
9,213
3,188
113
#1
Ok now that I have your attention I want to put a challenge to every user of CC. It feels to me as if I say the following verses at least once a day:

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever.
Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

My challenge to you is where in the Bible do we find a verse stating that we have salvation through keeping the law? It would be really interesting to see if somebody can show me that? What I did find was that YHWH and Yeshua said that if we love them we will keep their commandments (Because God is the same……) but surely this can’t be right?! What about Abraham, Moses and all these Old Testament heroes? They were saved by keeping the Law? Let the Word of God explain the word of God.

Hebrews 11 is called by some people the book of faith and by reading Hebrews 11 we see something interesting:

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Heb 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Not once did I read by keeping the law Abraham did this or by keeping the law Moses did that. Guys we are missing the plot completely. We are so caught up in this discussion between law and grace that we are missing God and the simplicity of His Word.

Salvation was always by faith and relationship. God called Moses His friend, when the angel speaked to Daniel he said to him that God loves him. How do you love somebody? Through relationship. Moses knew Yeshua, David knew Yeshua, Jeremiah an Isaiah knew Yeshua. What does Yeshua mean? Salvation. They understood salvation.

What a blessing to know God is the same since the beginning of time. We serve an awesome God and He has never changed.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#3
Good thread. Question posed, well said.

I read many posts that ask a redundant question; "why do you want to go back under the law?" when I mention the instructions that God gave to Moses have always been beneficial for instructions in righteousness. (2 Timothy 3:16) So Joshua was a man of faith, otherwise he (and Caleb) would have said the same thing as all the others that spied out Canaan land before Israel marched in. They were the only 2 that were older than 60. Everybody else over the age of 20 died within the 40 years Israel was in the wilderness because they had no faith that God was good for His Word and was always sure according to the promises/covenant He made with them.

Joshua 24:26 And Joshua wrote these words in the book of the law of God, and took a great stone, and set it up there under an oak, that was by the sanctuary of the Lord.

So what does the term “under the law” really mean?

Romans 6:14-15
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Paul is juxtaposing using the observances of former religious rules and practices of Jewish commandments instituted by the rabbis, and binding customs along with the grace that is available in Messiah.
Juxtaposing is to place close together or side by side, especially for comparison or contrast.

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

In this regard the law (Torah) can be compared with any righteous values a soul voluntarily imposes upon themselves. However as a spiritual relationship is established with God and Christ Jesus, a soul is elevated to much higher levels of spiritual awareness and accountability. Therefore, it is a complete farce when Christians claim to follow the Messiah, but willfully abuse and neglect the instructions in the Law (Torah) according to their denominational authorities. The term “kept under the law” is indicative of popular anti-law theology. Many fail to understand that without the law of God (the Pentateuch), there would be no standard with which to prove Christ Jesus, therefore NO Messiah.

Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

The idiomatic expression “under the law” refers to a false teaching that has never been true. The Dead Sea Scrolls confirm that this phrase “under the law” refers to strict religious Jewish commandments instituted by the rabbis, and binding customs, not obedience to God's law itself. Torah has not at any time saved anyone! God saves when His people demonstrate a sincere obedience to His righteous instruction. Blind ritual (or religion) alone without the love of God profits nothing. God is “the Spirit” of the Renewed Covenant that writes the law upon our heart.

Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

If, therefore, perfection had been by means of the priesthood of the Levities in which the law was imposed upon people, why was another priest required who should stand up after the likeness of Melchizedek?
Here is the key that sets the context for Hebrews 8:13. Throughout chapter 7, it is the “instruction” of the Levitical priests officiating the Temple ordinances that are being discussed, pointing towards Abraham submitting his sons to be in the line of Melchizedek, by tithing to him in advance. What happens is a switching of priestly modalities within the instructions of the law where the priestly model in Exodus gives way to its predecessor from Genesis, in accordance with all the prophesies in the Old Testament. Again, pagan tradition uses this passage to teach that it is the “Law” that has passed away. Another vital component to understanding this priesthood is that the binding of Isaac at Moriah points to the Melchizedek priesthood, not to the Levitical priesthood. With that, the “binding of Isaac” is fully realized in Messiah, the son of man, the Suffering Servant who is Jesus.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,095
6,479
113
#4
The Law vs. Grace:
Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Romans 10:1-4 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth. 9.) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10.) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1st Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19) For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 22) For the Jews require a sign, and the Greek’s seek after wisdom; 23) But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness. 24) But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 27) But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty.

Romans 10:1-4 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth. 9.) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10.) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 10) For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11) But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12) And the law is not of faith; but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18) For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19) Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed shold come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angles in the hand of a mediator, ……23) But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25) But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26) For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. 15) Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace. 16) And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby; …….19) Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Colossians 2: 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him; 7) Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9) For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, 10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power;
3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. 15) And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. 16) Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another, in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6) Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7) That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7) For if the first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; …………12) For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16) For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator…………28) So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2) For then would they not have ceased to be offered? Because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins…… 9) Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, oh God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#5
Man faces unlimited liability; his sins have temporal and eternal consequences, and he cannot at any point escape God.

If we could look anywhere and not be confronted with the revelation of God, then we could not sin in the Biblical sense of the term. (Romans 4:15) Nevertheless, sin is the breaking of the “law of God.” (1 John 3:4) God confronts us everywhere. God cannot confront us anywhere unless He confronts us everywhere. God is ONE! His law is ONE! If we could press a button so we didn't need to hear God's voice, we would always press the same button over and over again. Our button of self consciousness cannot be pushed without hearing the requirement of God.

Those who desire to reverse this say God is liable if He doesn't meet one's expectations. They say that their own experience pronounces that they are saved without any liability, and the magic formula is “I accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior” then the mind of man transfers almost all liability to Christ and can believe any way they desire without almost any liability. The truth is that God cannot be accepted if His sovereignty, His law, and His word are denied.

This distorted form of Christianity seems to have begun around 144 AD with “Marcionism” theology. The distortion of the law (by the tactics of the adversary) was first tried through the hypocritical Pharisees doctrine during Jesus' day. That didn't work, so why not just get rid of it altogether and accomplish the same results? Marcion's teachings departed from traditional Christianity in a number of ways. Most dramatically, perhaps, Marcion rejected the idea that the Old Testament God and the New Testament God were the same being. Up until then, the traditional Church had considered the Old Testament to be sacred and assumed that Christianity was a fulfillment or continuation of Judaism. Today, anti law people resort to name calling such as Judaizer and legalizer and have in actuality adopted most of this Marcion philosophy. Marcion's rejection of that idea affected many different doctrines and beliefs.

Some will quote Ephesians 2:8-9 and say that being saved is not of works but of faith alone. Believe it or not, to deny the law is to accept a works religion, because it means denying God's sovereignty and assuming man's existence in independence of God's total law and government. (Think about what the philosophy of “separation of church and state” has done in the United States. It certainly has not assisted in righteousness, but just the opposite. It's in our face!) In a world where God functions only to remove the liability of hell, and no righteous law governs man, we work our own way through life by our own conscience. We then are saved by our own work of faith, of accepting Christ, not by Christ's sovereign acceptance of us. Christ said “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you.” Christ in such a faith, serves as an insurance agent, as a guarantee against liabilities, not as sovereign Lord. This is paganism in Christ's name.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#6
God's grace is not an adversary of God's law, neither is the law of God an adversary of His grace.

"And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand" Mark 3:25

Why believe in a doctrine that is not built on solid ground? Jesus is not an adversary of His Father, nether is God an adversary of Christ. The term "law vs grace" is false doctrine, and not from Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
Jan 25, 2015
9,213
3,188
113
#7
God's grace is not an adversary of the law, neither is the law of God an adversary of His grace.

"And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand" Mark 3:25

Why believe in a doctrine that is not built on solid ground? Jesus is not an adversary of His Father, nether is God an adversary of Christ. The term "law vs grace" is false doctrine, and not from Christ Jesus our Lord.
This is really well said. I agree with this completely and I might quote you on this sometime :)
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,095
6,479
113
#8
God's grace is not an adversary of God's law, neither is the law of God an adversary of His grace.

"And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand" Mark 3:25

Why believe in a doctrine that is not built on solid ground? Jesus is not an adversary of His Father, nether is God an adversary of Christ. The term "law vs grace" is false doctrine, and not from Christ Jesus our Lord.
Well, yes......and.......no. The conflict comes when "law" is not properly defined by those who argue Law vs. Grace in my opinion. As well, conflict comes when Law is said to provide eternal life. Jesus is pretty clear on this aspect of the argument. I believe if the Church understood what the Law of Faith Paul spoke of really is, this argument would not be. But, now, that's just me, so........
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#9
Well, yes......and.......no. The conflict comes when "law" is not properly defined by those who argue Law vs. Grace in my opinion. As well, conflict comes when Law is said to provide eternal life. Jesus is pretty clear on this aspect of the argument. I believe if the Church understood what the Law of Faith Paul spoke of really is, this argument would not be. But, now, that's just me, so........
A distorted law. like that of the Pharisees Jesus was confronted with is not of grace. It is "not a yes thing" when it comes to the truth of our responsibility/liability. The "performance of faith" is without true grace same as the "performance of works" by the law. Both are false doctrines built on mans works alone. It is a "yes thing" when we finally see that the law God gave to Moses totally lines up with what Jesus taught, and what our Lord represents. Jesus never said anything that was against His Father's will. God has never changed, (Malicih) and doesn't ever change. Neither has Christ Jesus. (Hebrews) Therefore, the truth given to Israel is the same truth of given through Christ.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#10
During my childhood, and beyond into my adulthood, I often heard the term “two wrongs don't make a right.” This is true, and even more so when we misinterpret scripture to our own liking depending what we have come to believe, what we have heard form the pulpit, and heard from many others who profess faith in Christ Jesus our Lord. In the case which I am ready to present, I first have to admit my error in that I had determined the following scripture to refer to only “temple ordinances,” deemed as belonging only to the Jews i.e. Israel. I was partially right, but this isn't what Paul was referring to, for in Christ, the Priesthood, with its ordinances has not been abolished, but yet rather established in Spirit. On the other side of the equation, it is also an error to say all of God's law (in the Old Testament) has been abolished through Christ which is also a falsehood.

I have recently acquired a transcript, translated into English, from the original Eastern Oriental Aramaic Peshitta text written by Paul to the Ephesians. The focus of these two wrongs is Ephesians 1:15 highlighted in red. First is the King James version, and following second will be from the “Peshitta English Aramaic translation” with explanations of Paul's true intention to the church in Ephesus. In so doing, this will also reveal these two errors previously mentioned.

Ephesians 2:13-18 (KJV)
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Ephesians 2:13-14 from the original Eastern Oriental Aramaic Peshitta.
13 But now, by Y'shua the Mashiyach; you who before were afar off, have been brought near by the blood of the Mashiyach.
14 He is Himself our peace, who has made the two (become) one, and has demolished the wall which stood in the midst, and the enmity, by His flesh;

Arimaic for wall is “syaga.” Ironically, this exact term was picked up by the Talmudic rabbis in “Pirkei Avot” (Sayings of the Fathers) that commanded “make a fence around the Torah.” Y'shua specifically warned against this activity in Matthew chapter 15 rebuking the Pharisees in the process. Later on, Y'shua said he was the “door/gate” using a synonym for “syaga,” known as “taarea,” which is a homonym for “torah” and “teachers,” meaning the Pharisees. So while the Pharisees are busy erecting the fence, Y'shua is pulling it down, allowing everyone access!

I will interject that Jesus plainly said that He was the teacher of Torah the right way so all have access, and not the way the Pharisees taught by restriction. I will post more in the following post so this won't get too long.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#11
Continuing Ephesians 2:15-17 from the original Eastern Oriental Aramaic Peshitta.

15 And in His flesh (the) enmity and regulations of commands (contained) in His commandments are abolished (so) that in Himself (an occurrence of the divine nature, or “qnoma”), He might make the two into one, establishing peace.
16 And has reconciled both with Elohim in one body and has slain the enmity by His stake (of execution).
17 And He came and proclaimed peace to you afar off, and to those near.
18 Because by Him there is access for us both, by one Spirit, to the Father.

Referring to the word abolished. The grammatical structure here fully guarantees that “namusa” is referring to “customs” as in traditions of the Pharisees, not of Torah itself. Mashiyach abolishes the “enmity” (hatred or animosity) that has been brought against YHWH by religious tradition and false interpretation of the Torah., which was a heavy burden that people could not bear. Christian theologians, however, twist this verse and teach that it was YHWH's Torah that brought the hatred and that Mashiyach did away with Torah, which is a very reckless and evil theology. Mashiyach sent the Ruach haKodesh to write YHWH's Torah upon the hearts of people, not abolish it.

Qnoma” can mean “core substance” or “occurrence.” Although Greek reads “self” Aramaic does not; “self” leads to assumptions of “personhood” which breeds idolatry. This is referring to the actions of Christ, not just what He contained (but not to exclude) what He did at Calvary.
 
Last edited:
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#12
True law and true faith are both given by ONE God, the Father of Christ Jesus our Lord. False works of faith that demand certain portions of God's word to be void, and false works of the law are introduced by man into false religions. "Yes", if it comes from the doctrine of God Almighty (Elohim-plural for God). "No" if it comes from the doctrines of men.
 

damombomb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2011
3,801
68
48
#13
We are saved by grace , it is the gift of God, otherwise we would not have needed a savior. Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
 
Jan 25, 2015
9,213
3,188
113
#14
We are saved by grace , it is the gift of God, otherwise we would not have needed a savior. Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Yes I agree, everything we have is grace, but do you think grace is a new concept?

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

Ex 33:12 And Moses said unto the Lord, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name, and thou hast also found grace in my sight.

Before the flood there was 120 years of a grace period :)
 
Jan 25, 2015
9,213
3,188
113
#15
Ezra 9:8 And now for a little space grace hath been [shewed] from the Lord our God, to leave us a remnant to escape, and to give us a nail in his holy place, that our God may lighten our eyes, and give us a little reviving in our bondage.

Pss 45:2 Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.

Pss 84:11 For the Lord God [is] a sun and shield: the Lord will give grace and glory: no good [thing] will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.

Jer 31:2 Thus saith the Lord, The people [which were] left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; [even] Israel, when I went to cause him to rest.

Zech 4:7 Who [art] thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel [thou shalt become] a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone [thereof with] shoutings, [crying], Grace, grace unto it.

Zech 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

WOW, our God is the God of grace, from the first moment of the earth till today. Amen.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#16
Yes, Grace is through Christ Jesus offered to the entire world. It is also very important to remember that Jesus Christ is the creator of all things. Amen to both damombomb and GandaIfTheWhilte.

Colossians1:14-17
[SUP]14 [/SUP]In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

It is reasonable to consider with understanding that Our Savior Jesus Christ gave the law to Israel via Moses.
Y'shua Messiah (Jesus Christ) is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Hebrews 13:8
 
Last edited:
L

Least

Guest
#17
Exodus 34:9 And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O LORD, let my LORD, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.

Before Israel, grace was limited to a few.

Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
Genesis 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.


Exodus 34:9 And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O LORD, let my LORD, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.


Grace went out to a nation when the people went into their inheritance, they were separated as a nation to be a light to the world:

Leviticus 24:22 Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God.


Leviticus 20:24 But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I am the LORD your God, which have separated you from other people.

The blessings and curses were Delivered to Moses and given to the people of Israel, and the strangers who dwelt among them.

Psalms 147:19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.
Psalms 147:20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.


The other nations, were all under the wrath of God. They did not know His Judgements. (They were under the law, not establishing it. They couldn't establish it as Israel was set apart for just that purpose, as a light to the world.)

The people who occupied the promised land before Israel overtook the land were spewed out, as Israel was warned of the same if they lived by the same abominations as the people there before them:

Leviticus 18:26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
Leviticus 18:27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;)
Leviticus 18:28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.


The people fall in an out of grace, In times of faithfulness, there was peace, in times of unfaithfulness no protection no peace.

The promise of the coming Messiah:

Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.
Isaiah 60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
Isaiah 60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
Isaiah 60:4 Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.

Zechariah 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

So with the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ, the promise has appeared to all nations. Trough the promise made to Abraham that in him all nations would be blessed, (those who believe.)

Through Christ, God made a way so that all men, by believing in HIM, could seek His righteousness by the same grace that Moses and Noah and Israel had in Him, because of their belief and faithfulness.

Colossians 1:4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,
Colossians 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
Colossians 1:6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

Micah 7:20 Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.

Psalms 147:19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.

Psalms 147:20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us,that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
 
Last edited:

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
#19
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
(Rom 5:21)

The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
(1Co 15:56)

I hope one can connect the dots.
 
Jan 6, 2014
991
27
0
#20
If the Law could produce salvation, then Christ suffered and died in vain.