Romans 4:1-12 THE FATHER OF FAITH

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Apr 17, 2015
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2
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#1
Read the Scripture: Romans 4:1-12
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about — but not before God. What does Scripture say?Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.Romans 4:1-3
Paul says that Abraham our forefather discovered two ways to gain worth: One, Paul suggests, is by works. Abraham was a man of good works. In Genesis, Abraham was an idolator and worshipped the moon goddess. But he was not deliberately seeking to evade God. He worshipped in ignorance. It was in the midst of that condition that God appeared to him and spoke to him. Abraham believed God, responded to his call, and set out on a march without a map. He trusted God to lead him to a land he had never seen before, to take care of his family, and to fulfill his promises. So Abraham appears in the Scripture as a man of great works.


Paul admits that if Abraham was righteous because of works, he had something to boast about. Works always give you something to boast about. You can look at the record, you can show people what you have done and why you ought to be appreciated. You may not boast openly, but we all have very subtle ways and clever tricks of getting it out into the open so people can see what we have done. You can drop a hint of something you have done, hoping that people will ask some more about it. Somehow you manage things so that people will know you are a person of significance. That is the way the world is today, and the way it was in Abraham's day.


That may work before men, but not before God. God is never impressed by that kind of performance. God, who sees the heart, is not looking at outward performance. He knows the selfishness, the greed, the grasping, the self-centeredness, the ruthlessness with which we cut people out and harm those we profess to love. He sees all the maneuvering and manipulating, the clever arranging that goes on in our lives and in our hearts. Therefore that beautiful performance is utterly invalid, worthless, to God. That is why the sense of righteousness that results from our performance before men never lasts. It is but a temporary shot in the arm that we need to repeat again and again, almost as though we were addicted to it. But it will always let us down in the hour of crisis. It is only the righteousness that comes from God that is lasting and will work — not only in time, but for all eternity. That is what Abraham discovered. He discovered that righteousness which comes from performance is worthless.


How did he discover this? Paul refers to the fifteenth chapter of Genesis, where God appeared before Abraham. He took him out one night and showed him the stars in the heavens. Abraham, look up! Abraham looked up into the stillness of the night, with the stars blazing in all their glory. God said to him, If you can number those stars, you can number your descendants. Their number will be far more than all the stars of heaven.Paul says, Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness — self-worth, standing before God, acceptance, a sense of love and value in the sight of God.


It says, Abraham believed God, but we have to be careful.


Interestingly enough, when James quotes this passage from Genesis 15 he says,Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness, then he adds,and he was called God's friend, (James 2:23). That is acceptance, isn't it? Abraham became God's friend, not because he behaved so well, or because he was a godly man and obeyed God, he became the friend of God because he believed God's promise. Abraham is a beautiful example of what Paul is talking about here in Romans.


Father, forgive me for any lingering desire in my heart to try to earn a standing before you, for any hungering after the righteousness that comes from men. Help me to live and operate by faith as Abraham did.
Life Application: Does our standing with our Holy God differ from that of Abraham? How does this affect our walk of faith? Do we continue to earn our worth by affecting good works?
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
2,987
1,014
113
New Zealand
#2
Yeah when Abraham offered up his son Isaac he was 'justified by works' in the sense of an offering pleasing to God, but not 'justified by works' in terms of conversion.

His conversion would have been earlier.. without any self-effort of works on his part.

Saved the same way in the OT as NT. OT = saved by grace through faith in Christ who was to come. NT = saved by grace through faith in Christ who had come. Jesus of course always existing whether there in the flesh or not.

Job also believed in a Redeemer.. so did David.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#3
Yeah when Abraham offered up his son Isaac he was 'justified by works' in the sense of an offering pleasing to God, but not 'justified by works' in terms of conversion.

His conversion would have been earlier.. without any self-effort of works on his part.

Saved the same way in the OT as NT. OT = saved by grace through faith in Christ who was to come. NT = saved by grace through faith in Christ who had come. Jesus of course always existing whether there in the flesh or not.

Job also believed in a Redeemer.. so did David.
Amen as Abraham had faith long before he offered up Isaac............His faith was evidenced when he believed God about the land that God would lead him to and a city whose builder and maker was God........!
 
Feb 7, 2013
1,276
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#4
Read the Scripture: Romans 4:1-12
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about — but not before God. What does Scripture say?Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.Romans 4:1-3
Paul says that Abraham our forefather discovered two ways to gain worth: One, Paul suggests, is by works. Abraham was a man of good works. In Genesis, Abraham was an idolator and worshipped the moon goddess. But he was not deliberately seeking to evade God. He worshipped in ignorance. It was in the midst of that condition that God appeared to him and spoke to him. Abraham believed God, responded to his call, and set out on a march without a map. He trusted God to lead him to a land he had never seen before, to take care of his family, and to fulfill his promises. So Abraham appears in the Scripture as a man of great works.


Paul admits that if Abraham was righteous because of works, he had something to boast about. Works always give you something to boast about. You can look at the record, you can show people what you have done and why you ought to be appreciated. You may not boast openly, but we all have very subtle ways and clever tricks of getting it out into the open so people can see what we have done. You can drop a hint of something you have done, hoping that people will ask some more about it. Somehow you manage things so that people will know you are a person of significance. That is the way the world is today, and the way it was in Abraham's day.


That may work before men, but not before God. God is never impressed by that kind of performance. God, who sees the heart, is not looking at outward performance. He knows the selfishness, the greed, the grasping, the self-centeredness, the ruthlessness with which we cut people out and harm those we profess to love. He sees all the maneuvering and manipulating, the clever arranging that goes on in our lives and in our hearts. Therefore that beautiful performance is utterly invalid, worthless, to God. That is why the sense of righteousness that results from our performance before men never lasts. It is but a temporary shot in the arm that we need to repeat again and again, almost as though we were addicted to it. But it will always let us down in the hour of crisis. It is only the righteousness that comes from God that is lasting and will work — not only in time, but for all eternity. That is what Abraham discovered. He discovered that righteousness which comes from performance is worthless.


How did he discover this? Paul refers to the fifteenth chapter of Genesis, where God appeared before Abraham. He took him out one night and showed him the stars in the heavens. Abraham, look up! Abraham looked up into the stillness of the night, with the stars blazing in all their glory. God said to him, If you can number those stars, you can number your descendants. Their number will be far more than all the stars of heaven.Paul says, Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness — self-worth, standing before God, acceptance, a sense of love and value in the sight of God.


It says, Abraham believed God, but we have to be careful.


Interestingly enough, when James quotes this passage from Genesis 15 he says,Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness, then he adds,and he was called God's friend, (James 2:23). That is acceptance, isn't it? Abraham became God's friend, not because he behaved so well, or because he was a godly man and obeyed God, he became the friend of God because he believed God's promise. Abraham is a beautiful example of what Paul is talking about here in Romans.


Father, forgive me for any lingering desire in my heart to try to earn a standing before you, for any hungering after the righteousness that comes from men. Help me to live and operate by faith as Abraham did.
Life Application: Does our standing with our Holy God differ from that of Abraham? How does this affect our walk of faith? Do we continue to earn our worth by affecting good works?
Can you please help me with the Holy Scripture quote where it is written about Abraham practiced 'idolatry'?

Thank you and GOD bless you in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#5
Can you please help me with the Holy Scripture quote where it is written about Abraham practiced 'idolatry'?

Thank you and GOD bless you in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.
I agree...Abraham's father worshipped the moon god Sin, but I do not recall Abraham being tied to the worship of the moon god Sin.......
 
Dec 26, 2014
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#6
no man of faith from abraham through peter, james, john and paul

would have anything to do with the corrupt and evil rcc..... btw.

also, ray stedman should be tested before accepting his teachings: found this in quick search>>

Wrong Doctrine of Ray C. Stedman: The Editor's Column - Paul Wilson (#52190) - BTP

and don't know enough yet to know if their appraisal is right or not... .but if this thread

is going that way (to see/study/look at ) ray stedman's teachings, it may be best to test and see....
 
Feb 7, 2013
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#7
I agree...Abraham's father worshipped the moon god Sin, but I do not recall Abraham being tied to the worship of the moon god Sin.......
i too believe so, but didn't his wife Sarah when they left Haran, when GOD called Abraham out with his family, 'took' with them some 'idols' along, as what Rachael and Leah did. Please correct me if i am wrong because Abraham might not be directly involved at all in these pagan worship and customary, that were practiced around in Haran at that time.

At these times 'sins' were not recorded, because the 'Law' of GOD have not been given yet, that was only given in the time of Moses, in account to Apostle Paul's 'testimony'.

Thank you and may GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST bless you and others, who 'testify' the truth according to 'as it is written' in the HOLY BIBLE, in order for others to be 'built up' in Grace and Truth accordingly in 'oneness' to written sound doctrine knowledge faith.
 
Feb 7, 2013
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#8
Dear Preacher friend, please know that we are for you and not against you, for the sake of GOD's lambs and sheep given to CHRIST. We all have made many mistakes in our lives and we are no better than you and neither you. We are all learning from each other and our 'discussion' must be based on 'as it is written' and not as the 'doctrine' of men that may seem 'wise' but they are not Grace and Truth related.

Peace be with you, in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#9
Read the Scripture: Romans 4:1-12
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about — but not before God. What does Scripture say?Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.Romans 4:1-3
Paul says that Abraham our forefather discovered two ways to gain worth: One, Paul suggests, is by works. Abraham was a man of good works. In Genesis, Abraham was an idolator and worshipped the moon goddess. But he was not deliberately seeking to evade God. He worshipped in ignorance. It was in the midst of that condition that God appeared to him and spoke to him. Abraham believed God, responded to his call, and set out on a march without a map. He trusted God to lead him to a land he had never seen before, to take care of his family, and to fulfill his promises. So Abraham appears in the Scripture as a man of great works.
Abraham was an idolator and worshipped the moon goddess. But he was not deliberately seeking to evade God. He worshipped in ignorance.

Where did you getthis garbage? You won't find any support for it in scripture!

I understand the premise and I will expose the fallacy.

The premise: Abram dwelt at Ur. The Chaldeans of Ur worshiped the moon. Therefore Abraham worshiped the moon.


The fallacy: Cars are found in garages. You were found in a garage. Therefore you are a car.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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#10
There is a mistake here, Abraham is only quoted as an example, not an autobiography, or definition of his faith, or ceremonies or laws he followed. The only definitive point is the relationship he had with God. And the point of this relationship was a point of promise in the middle of disappointment, where he had to trust Gods word to him to see it fulfilled.

Adams sin was to not trust God who he saw face to face but believe the lie told by the snake and Eve, you will be like God, not you will die. God did not say he would not be like him, but to not take of fruit of the tree of knowledge he had to trust God. He failed and lost all.

So ideas about Abraham outside the story in Genesis is missing the point, completely.
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,703
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#11
Before the law came sin was in the world but where there is no law sin is not imputed so then if Abraham was here before the law was here and he did or said something that under law he would have been stoned for,him not being under law means that it was not imputed to him.
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
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#12
Read the Scripture: Romans 4:1-12
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about — but not before God. What does Scripture say?Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.Romans 4:1-3
Paul says that Abraham our forefather discovered two ways to gain worth: One, Paul suggests, is by works. Abraham was a man of good works. In Genesis, Abraham was an idolator and worshipped the moon goddess. But he was not deliberately seeking to evade God. He worshipped in ignorance. It was in the midst of that condition that God appeared to him and spoke to him. Abraham believed God, responded to his call, and set out on a march without a map. He trusted God to lead him to a land he had never seen before, to take care of his family, and to fulfill his promises. So Abraham appears in the Scripture as a man of great works.


Paul admits that if Abraham was righteous because of works, he had something to boast about. Works always give you something to boast about. You can look at the record, you can show people what you have done and why you ought to be appreciated. You may not boast openly, but we all have very subtle ways and clever tricks of getting it out into the open so people can see what we have done. You can drop a hint of something you have done, hoping that people will ask some more about it. Somehow you manage things so that people will know you are a person of significance. That is the way the world is today, and the way it was in Abraham's day.


That may work before men, but not before God. God is never impressed by that kind of performance. God, who sees the heart, is not looking at outward performance. He knows the selfishness, the greed, the grasping, the self-centeredness, the ruthlessness with which we cut people out and harm those we profess to love. He sees all the maneuvering and manipulating, the clever arranging that goes on in our lives and in our hearts. Therefore that beautiful performance is utterly invalid, worthless, to God. That is why the sense of righteousness that results from our performance before men never lasts. It is but a temporary shot in the arm that we need to repeat again and again, almost as though we were addicted to it. But it will always let us down in the hour of crisis. It is only the righteousness that comes from God that is lasting and will work — not only in time, but for all eternity. That is what Abraham discovered. He discovered that righteousness which comes from performance is worthless.


How did he discover this? Paul refers to the fifteenth chapter of Genesis, where God appeared before Abraham. He took him out one night and showed him the stars in the heavens. Abraham, look up! Abraham looked up into the stillness of the night, with the stars blazing in all their glory. God said to him, If you can number those stars, you can number your descendants. Their number will be far more than all the stars of heaven.Paul says, Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness — self-worth, standing before God, acceptance, a sense of love and value in the sight of God.


It says, Abraham believed God, but we have to be careful.


Interestingly enough, when James quotes this passage from Genesis 15 he says,Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness, then he adds,and he was called God's friend, (James 2:23). That is acceptance, isn't it? Abraham became God's friend, not because he behaved so well, or because he was a godly man and obeyed God, he became the friend of God because he believed God's promise. Abraham is a beautiful example of what Paul is talking about here in Romans.


Father, forgive me for any lingering desire in my heart to try to earn a standing before you, for any hungering after the righteousness that comes from men. Help me to live and operate by faith as Abraham did.
Life Application: Does our standing with our Holy God differ from that of Abraham? How does this affect our walk of faith? Do we continue to earn our worth by affecting good works?
When Paul said Abraham "worketh not" this work refers to works of merit one does to make his reward of debt and not of grace, Rom 4:4. It does not refer to ALL works certainly not to the obedient works of Abraham. The only way those OT laws allowed for one to be justified was by flawless law keeping, if one could keep the law flawlessly then his reward would be of debt and not of grace. Abraham was not one who tried to keep God's law flawlessly, he committed sin yet he had an obedient faith by which he was justified, James 2.

Gen 18:19 "For I know him (Abraham), that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him."

God chose Abraham due to his 'behavior', God foreknew Abraham would be obedient in commanding his children and household after him and due to that obedience God would be able to being upon Abraham those promises God spoke to him about.

Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Rom 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Paul is contrasting "
him that worketh" to "him that believeth". Since we know from verses as Jh 6:27-29 belief is itself a work then the "worketh" Paul speaks of cannot include the obedient work of believing. Paul in verse 4 tells us the type of work he is speaking about, a work where ones reward is "not reckoned of grace but of debt". If one could work to keep the law perfectly, sinlessly then his reward is not of grace but something owed him, a debt. So in verse 4 Paul is speaking about works of merit where the reward is earned and contrasting "works of merit" to "works of obedience/believing". (Paul makes this same contrast between works of merit and submitting/obeying the righteousness/commandments of God in Rom 10:3)

In the context of Rom 4, Abraham was one who did not do works of merit trying to earn his salvation for Abraham sinned but Abraham had an obedient belief. James 2:21-24 says Abraham was justified by works...
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified. So the "worketh not" that Paul speaks of in Rom 4:5 CANNOT include the works James speaks of that do justify.

Since Paul and James do not contradict each other, it becomes apparent that the works Paul speaks of that do not justify are "works of merit" and the works James speaks of that do justify are obedient works.

Paul says in Rom 4:5 that -----believing>>>>>>>>justifies
James says in Jam 2 that ------works>>>>>>>>>> justify

Since there is just one way to be justified/saved, then believing is an obedient work that justifies and not a work of merit where one's reward is of debt and not of grace.


So when one takes "
worketh not" of Rom 4:4 out of context and tries to make it include ALL types of works, then they are creating a whole host contradictions. They create a contradiction with James who said by works a man is justified and with Paul also who in Rom 6:17,18 shows that when one obeys from the heart, then he is freed from sin/justified.

ADDENDUM:

Some Jews that became Christians still would cling to the OT law in some way and in Rom 4 Paul was proving to the Jewish Christians in Rome,

1) that the OT law does not justify but only allowed for perfect, flawless law-keeping where one's reward would then be of merit and not of grace, verse 3,4

2) circumcision is not necessary to be saved, verses 9-11.

Paul used Abraham as an example of one who did NOT work to keep the law perfectly so he could merit his reward but instead had an obedient faith and Paul also used Abraham as an example of one reckoned righteous is uncircumcision.

Which brings us to Rom 4:12:

"And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised."

Paul is saying the true descendants of Abraham are those who share in the same OBEDIENT faith as Abraham, those "who also walk in the steps of our father Abraham". Paul is making a contrast between an obedient faith/those that "walk" as Abraham to perfect law-keeping.

The word verb "walk" has to to with obedience, Abraham did not have a workless, dead faith only, thereby one must WALK in the steps of faith as Abraham to be a true descendant of Abraham.

Coffman Commentary (in blue) makes an interesting comment on the word 'walk':

Who also walk after the steps of that faith of our father Abraham ... These words mean "who have an obedient faith like Abraham." Abrahamic faith was not any such thing as faith ONLY, but it was a faith that walked after God's commandments, as pointed out under Romans 4:3; and Gentiles (or others) who would participate in the promise of salvation God gave through Abraham are here identified as those who "walk" in the steps of that faith, which is a way of saying they must have an obedient faith as did Abraham. Some of the so-called translations and modern speech renditions of the New Testament have butchered this verse by eliminating all reference to obedience:

For Abraham found favor with God by faith alone, before he was circumcised (The Living Word New Testament, paraphrased).

For those who have the faith of Abraham (NEB).

Because they live the same life of faith (The New Testament in Today's English).


The word "walk" or "tread" is in the Greek New Testament, and it should be in all valid translations of the word of God; but that expression is so obviously a reference to obedience that it cannot fit into the theories of salvation by faith alone; and the conviction persists that this fact influenced some of the so-called translations. It is admitted by all that Christians are saved by the same kind of faith Abraham had, before circumcision and the law; and a further study of the steps of Abraham's faith will reveal that obedience was coupled with it, and that it was by obedient faith that Abraham was justified.


At least 3 "translations" went so far as to avoid using the word "walk" with one even perverting the text to "
Abraham found favor with God by faith alone". The same perversion that takes place here in changing to the text to "faith only" is the same that takes place in Rom 4:5 in adding the word "alone" to the verse. Abraham did not "believe only" in verse 5 no more than he had "faith only" in verse 12.

 
Last edited:

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,001
13,008
113
58
#13
Yeah when Abraham offered up his son Isaac he was 'justified by works' in the sense of an offering pleasing to God, but not 'justified by works' in terms of conversion. His conversion would have been earlier.. without any self-effort of works on his part.
Amen! In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith for righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of offering up Isaac in James 2:21 did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to earn his salvation, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the sense in which Abraham was "justified by works."

So James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). The harmony of Romans 4:2 and James 2:21 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the believer's faith for righteousness. James, however is using the term to describe those who would prove the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do. *Perfect Harmony*
 

Yonah

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2014
1,074
103
48
#14
this is well stated and the concept of pride and works based acceptance before the Father is expressed well, however there are 2 things I would question, the first is: as others have stated, Abraham was never recorded in the cannonised text as being an idol worshipper, however in the book of Jasher (which is mentioned twice in our bibles) explains that he was taught at a very young age the true way by shem, and exposed the foolishness of his fathers idol worship, the 2nd point I would like to make is the text found in Gen, 26:5 that clearly states Abraham did obey the Father and all His commands, now I realize he did this as a result of salvation and acceptance and not a means by which to obtain it. however we must not ignore that obedience is an outward sign of a converted heart....
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
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#15
Amen! In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith for righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of offering up Isaac in James 2:21 did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to earn his salvation, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the sense in which Abraham was "justified by works."

So James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). The harmony of Romans 4:2 and James 2:21 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the believer's faith for righteousness. James, however is using the term to describe those who would prove the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do. *Perfect Harmony*
In fact of course Paul was talking about Abraham being justified in the sight of God. James is talking about him being justified in the sight of men. The only way we can be accepted as righteous in God's eyes is when we trust in the blood of Christ and receive the robe of His righteousness. But men can see neither. They only see what we DO. Thus we are justified in men's eyes (seen as righteous - as God's true people - as opposed to being accounted as righteous by God), in terms of what we do.

This difference comes out in James. 'You have faith and I have works, show me you faith apart from your works (which you cannot do), I will show you my faith by my works.' Thus he has in mind being counted as righteous before men
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#16
Can you please help me with the Holy Scripture quote where it is written about Abraham practiced 'idolatry'?

Thank you and GOD bless you in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.
As Abraham was brought up in a family where the father had total authority, and his father was an idol worshipper, it is very probable that as a boy Abraham was involved in idolatry. I don't see that he would have had much choice

I like to think that one day he went into the tent where the ancient tribal records were kept and began to read what was basically the source of Genesis 1-11. As a consequence his eyes were opened and he began to trust in YHWH. That was why God called him. He had believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,001
13,008
113
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#17
In fact of course Paul was talking about Abraham being justified in the sight of God. James is talking about him being justified in the sight of men. The only way we can be accepted as righteous in God's eyes is when we trust in the blood of Christ and receive the robe of His righteousness. But men can see neither. They only see what we DO. Thus we are justified in men's eyes (seen as righteous - as God's true people - as opposed to being accounted as righteous by God), in terms of what we do.

This difference comes out in James. 'You have faith and I have works, show me you faith apart from your works (which you cannot do), I will show you my faith by my works.' Thus he has in mind being counted as righteous before men
So the bottom line is:

Faith - accounted for righteousness.

Works - shown to be righteous.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#18


Paul says in Rom 4:5 that -----believing>>>>>>>>justifies
James says in Jam 2 that ------works>>>>>>>>>> justify

No verse in the bible says Abraham was reckoned righteous by faith only.
No verse in the bible says Abraham was justified by faith only.
These verses would exist only in the imaginations of men.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#19
The faith that is reckoned for righteousness...

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

... is a faith that has steps...

Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

...is a faith that obeys God...

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

...is a faith that produces works of righteousness...

Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

...is a faith that works by love...

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Faith works with power...

2Th_1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

Faith purifies the heart...

Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Genuine faith is evidenced by manifest deeds.

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

In other words faith is an active working dynamic. Faith is not passive trust.

Faith is believing in God, trusting in God, and doing the will of God.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#20
The doctrine of Original Sin is designed to undermine the teaching of genuine faith because it implies inability to obey God. Thus if man is unable to obey God then faith cannot be inclusive of wholehearted obedience. Faith is therefore redefined to be simply "trust" and is therefore of a passive nature. The doctrine of Original Sin and the subsequent inability teaching destroys the "working dynamic" inherent in the true definition of faith.

Substitutional views that pertain to the reason why Jesus died then play into this deception by offering a "sin cloak" for the ongoing wickedness due to inability. Thus manifest wicked people are deceived into thinking that "trusting in Jesus" and "trusting in the finished work of Jesus" serves to cloak their ongoing wickedness.

The truth thought is that the blood of Jesus is the means by which we approach God in repentance and faith. Faith being a wholehearted yielding to God. Salvation is wrought through the power of God working within us, whom yield wholeheartedly, to bring a total transformation of our being. We are cleansed of our former sins by the blood of Jesus (for we enter into a covenant with God via the blood and are given a fresh start) and thus brought into a state of inward purity wrought through our abiding wholeheartedly in the light of God.

A genuine repentance where the rebellion ceases completely is absolutely necessary for this work of God to take place because God does not transform those whom are still in rebellion. We have to cooperate with God, not defy Him.