God Breathed?

[didymos]

Recently I came across an interesting passage from Jude where he quotes the Book of Enoch:

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones [SUP]15 [/SUP]to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” (Jude 1: 14-15 / NIV)

Non canonical references in the Bible are not uncommon, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-canonical_books_referenced_in_the_Bible

Now Paul writes in his second letter to Timothy:

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, (2 Tim 3:16 /NIV)

Now my question is: if passages from non canonical books ended up in the Bible, does that mean (since all Scripture should be considered God-breathed) that these passages are canonical in the books they're quoted from too? I mean: can we then consider some passages of non canonical books canonical? Your thoughts please.

 

[pwrnJC]

The problem I see here is based on one word that you seem to use a lot.....Canonical. Canonical is a man-made term to describe a supposedly Holy Spirit annointed book or passage. In other words, a denominational applied significance only. Yes, GOD can use a donkey for His purposes. There are awesome holy spirit annointed writers today that inspire and bring others closer to CHRIST. Taking a single quote or verse from something NOT found in the BIBLE does not instantly get the GOOD HOUSEKEEPNG SEAL OF APPROVAL from GOD on the Rest of the source that the quote came from. If I use one sentence from DANTE's INFERNO to describe HELL, does not mean that the rest of INFERNO is GOD ordained and Holy SPIRIT inspired.

 

[didymos]

Posted this in the wrong forum by mistake, already asked a mod to move it to BDF.

 

[Jeff_56]

The problem I see here is based on one word that you seem to use a lot.....Canonical. Canonical is a man-made term .....

yes, this part is right.

also, why would 'canonical' be important to anyone when pictures/ graven images/ idols ad nauseum ad infinitum are used by 'canon-observant' heresy without any remorse, without any repentance or even a thought of the need to repent, even in avatars.... let alone in grocery stores, homes, chapels, churches, etc etc etc ....

 

[Jon4TheCross]

I have read carefully the writings interpreted which are called by some...the book of Enoch.

There is not one contradiction to The Bible in any of it.
At first I was sceptical...thought I found a contradiction...but realized after meditating on the words more that there was no contradiction.

Many truths which God has taught me which are not in The Bible were confirmed to me again while reading the writings of Enoch.

I definitely suggest reading these writings...but of course they are not needed for salvation....but more so to increase fruitfulness and other edifying things.

 

[MarcR]

There is nothing to keep God from inspiring a writer to cite a source which is not acknowledged to be equally inspired.

I personally believe that God has inspired both the writing and the transmission of His word. (I am NOT an apolofist for KJV only.)

I frequently find Apochryphal writings both helpful and worthy of citation; but I find that true of secular writings as well.

I regard only the 66 canonical books as inspired by God.

 

[crossnote]

If a passage taken from a non canonical book ends up in the Bible it is Canonical in the Bible as it is set in an inspired context, by the Holy Spirit, whereas when found in the context in its non canonical source does not guarantee being true let alone inspired.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

The Jews rejected the epistle, apparently authored around 300 BC, finished in the first century AD. Sorry, I have used B.C> & A.D. too many years to change to B.C.E./C.E) It wassd apparently simply because it was too "young", untested with time and scholarship. The same was true of all the apocrypha, written 1-2 B.C., and some A.D. epistles like Thomas not included in the N.T. , among those written weell into the 3rd century A.D.

I think I've read most of the "missing" books that we have in print, remembering there would be a lot of repitition if included. To have a Bible with all of them in one volume would require such a tiny print that would require powerful eyesight or magnifier, or be too big to carry. We have somewhat repetition among the 66 books we do carry.

There's also a huge number of writings that are possibly containing scripture, but are regarded as mostly of historical value. The Book of Josephus mirrors a lot of O.T. fact, which would double present Bible size, would be nice to have handy. I have it on my laptops, desktops, phones and tablets along with many other Bible related resources, so having it on paper is phasing out anyway.

Not including the Epistle of Enoch doesn't mean the verses were not inspired. However and by whom Jude was written stands upon the belief the Holy Spirit inspired those words, giving by inspiration that part of Enoch for Jude to write down, and like with Hebrews, James, and Revelation was eventually added as widely regarded as worthy to be published side by side with the other 65 books.

BTW, the men that made those decisions span from centuries B.C. (Jewish Canon), the gospel and N.T. writers themselves commending the writings and teachings of others (Apostolic Canon), Latin Canon, Protestant Canon, etc. The Bible as we know it has been subjected to much scrutiny.

I agree, we can glean some good things out of the apocrypha, but I don;t think any of them made a difference in what I've learned that needs to be acted upon. The lesson I did learn from reading those and many other similar books is I should spend much more time studying the 66 books I do have in my Bibles.

 

[oldhermit]

Recently I came across an interesting passage from Jude where he quotes the Book of Enoch:

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones [SUP]15 [/SUP]to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” (Jude 1: 14-15 / NIV)

Non canonical references in the Bible are not uncommon, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-canonical_books_referenced_in_the_Bible

Now Paul writes in his second letter to Timothy:

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, (2 Tim 3:16 /NIV)

Now my question is: if passages from non canonical books ended up in the Bible, does that mean (since all Scripture should be considered God-breathed) that these passages are canonical in the books they're quoted from too? I mean: can we then consider some passages of non canonical books canonical? Your thoughts please.

That is a good question but what you are assuming is that the "Book of Enoch" served as Jude's source of information.

 

[crossnote]

If Enoch was inspired it would have been included in the Canon.

BTW, I refuse to write B.C.E. or C.E. in signifying dates. Phooey on the Politically/Religiously Correct crowd anyways...another attempt to snuff Christ out of the language. AD = Anno Domini (year of our Lord) and B.C. (before Christ).

 

[didymos]

That is a good question but what you are assuming is that the "Book of Enoch" served as Jude's source of information.

Either that or his quote was a popular saying (i.e. oral tradition), notice how he does doesn't refer to a BOOK of Enoch, but just to Enoch.

 

[oldhermit]

Either that or his quote was a popular saying (i.e. oral tradition), notice how he does doesn't refer to a BOOK of Enoch, but just to Enoch.

The source of Jude's information was not the "Book of Enoch" (which cannot possibly be traced to Enoch), it was direct revelation from the Holy Spirit.

 

[valiant]

Recently I came across an interesting passage from Jude where he quotes the Book of Enoch:

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones [SUP]15 [/SUP]to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” (Jude 1: 14-15 / NIV)

Non canonical references in the Bible are not uncommon, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-canonical_books_referenced_in_the_Bible

Now Paul writes in his second letter to Timothy:

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, (2 Tim 3:16 /NIV)

Now my question is: if passages from non canonical books ended up in the Bible, does that mean (since all Scripture should be considered God-breathed) that these passages are canonical in the books they're quoted from too? I mean: can we then consider some passages of non canonical books canonical? Your thoughts please.

The only part of non-canonical books which can be taken as God-breathed are the actual citations in Scripture, NOT the book they came from. In fact Jude 9 is the only actual CITATION from a non-canonical book, although even that may be from general usage.

The suggested hints from non-canonical books are guesses. They may simply be taken from general use.