Lawless reprobates. What's the real meaning?

[just-me]

Jeremiah 6:27-30
27 I have set thee for a tower and a fortress among my people, that thou mayest know and try their way.
28 They are all grievous revolters, walking with slanders: they are brass and iron; they are all corrupters.
29 The bellows are burned, the lead is consumed of the fire; the founder melteth in vain: for the wicked are not plucked away.
30 Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the Lord hath rejected them.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Reprobate = a vain mind

2 Corinthians 13:5-7
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.
7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.

Maslya” is an Aramaic synonym for “reprobate” meaning to be crushed or pulled as undesirables. It is also a consequence of rejection. An attitude of “maslya” is to be against “*aurayta” and “**namusa”.

This word, “*aurayta,” is derived from the same root and meaning of "Torah". (see Matthew 11:13, Matthew 12:5, and Matthew 22:40) In Hebraic thought, righteousness and understanding takes two particular forms. The first one is "to shoot straight", as if morality were an archer who always hits the target. By contrast of course, to be evil is "to miss the mark". “The man that wandereth out of the way of understanding shall remain in the congregation of the dead.” “I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.” (Proverbs 21:16 and Philippians 3:14)

In every other place in the New Testament where Torah is mentioned, the word used there is “*namusa” (aowmn), the Greek cognate being of course nomos (nomos). By contrast, nomos, while having the same meanings as its Aramaic counterpart, needs a much more intense contextual study to realize the true intent of the translator into Greek.

For Example, there is a law of sin and death that is contrary to the instructions of Torah, and a law of liberty contrary to being under the law. The positives are from God, and the negatives are false interpretations by religious traditions. If a parent gives instruction to their child, and the child only interprets those instructions as mere regulations, the child will never adopt the character of their parent, which usually ends in rebellion. On the other hand, when the child has faith by the truth in the instructions for his own benefit, he will adopt the mind and character of his parents, continuing to honor the loving person found in the proven truth, embedded within the instructions of his parents. It is the same way in the instructions of Torah. It can either be seen as regulations without faith in the giver, or it can be adopted by having faith in the giver's Torah. In either case Torah (law) will never change. How the receiver reacts to the instructions makes the difference between detriment, and benefit.

2 Corinthians 13:5 effortlessly crushes the romanticism of lawless faith because to be a rebel is also to be despised using this exact same definition of “reprobate.” In the last 2,000 years there is a massive amount of ignorance on the part of the Gentiles who erroneously sort the requirements in the Torah into a Jewish-only pile.

“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:” (Romans 3:31, and Philippians 2:5)

 

[DesiredHaven]

Good topic, this is great.

Being rejected and a castaway or a reprobate is all the same no?

I was putting these together when looking into this at one time, I will add this here maybe it could prove helpful for verses, maybe not, but this topic is of interest to me


1Cr 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection :
lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway

2Cr 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith;
prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves,
how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge,
God gave them over to a reprobate mind,
to do those things which are not convenient;

Jerm 6:30 Reprobate silver shall men call them,
because the LORD hath rejected them.

Same word rejected in both when it come to the reprobate and that which beareth thorns

Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected,
and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

In the above speaks of being given over to do those things which are not convenient,

Ephes 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting,
which are not convenient:but rather giving of thanks.

Romans 1:28.... God gave them over to a reprobate mind,
to do those things which are not convenient;

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him,
being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Ephes 7:6 For as the crackling of thorns under a pot,
so is the laughter of the fool: this also is vanity.

Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected,
and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

I have others I was looking at too in this, I need to fetch those

 

[Grandpa]

Examine yourselves whether you be in the faith.

Galatians 3:11-12
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Galatians 5:22-23

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Is this fruit produced by the observance of, or the adherence to the "instructions" of the Law? Do these fruit, that are produced by faith in Christ, cause the law to be void? No. These fruit establish the law.

The carnal mind thinks it can follow spiritual instructions. It can't. That's why God, in His Mercy and Love, gave us a New Covenant in Christ.

If you go back to trying to follow the Law in your own understanding you have despised and rejected the work of the Lord Jesus Christ in bringing us Salvation. Which is by Grace through Faith and no other means.

This is starting to get old...

 

[DesiredHaven]

Its like you can weave other things into the picture, but in the last posting I forgot to add that the word convenient is not the same in both places, reason being not known, but the verses in every which place seem to go well.

There is some repeats here, but I find re running things ( from various angles helps to tie them in better) and to help a thing become more solid in your comparing.

That which is not convenient is both here and in the next verse

Ephes 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

As it pertains to doing "those things" in that mind (the reprobate, or rejected mind)

Whereas here it says (in respects to such filthiness also) as is shown in the above

2Cr 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Again, the conversation is shown

1Peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

Ephes 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

Verses (what preceeds) thanksgiving, and the communication of ones faith here...

Phm 1:8 Wherefore, though I might be much bold in Christ to enjoin thee that which is convenient,

Above "to enjoin one to what IS convenient" knowing God and thanks to God is mentioned and the following verse...

Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. (there is the vain)

Then we see the examples given unto what they were given over to as it relates to a reprobate mind, and ends in saying...

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Ephes 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

Ephes 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

Ephes 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Same...

and their foolish heart was darkened. God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

The same is...

Ephes 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

You could put it in the same category as corruptible speak. Because if it were of holy communication, we wouldnt be asked to put it off. It seems to be of that which is not convenient or being given over to that.

Ephes 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

 

[just-me]

As you quoted...

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him,
being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

This is something that we can contemplate on concerning rejecting certain parts of scripture because of false teachings etc. Rejection causes rejection. It's a Father child thing. It's all a matter of how we perceive and desire His instructions. They are burdensome without faith, having a heart that says rejection is preferred, and on the other hand they are gladly received by the gift of faith given to us because we see the the truth and reliability in the name and character of or Father. Thanks!!!!

 

[DesiredHaven]

As you quoted...

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him,
being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

This is something that we can contemplate on concerning rejecting certain parts of scripture because of false teachings etc. Rejection causes rejection. It's a Father child thing. It's all a matter of how we perceive and desire His instructions. They are burdensome without faith, having a heart that says rejection is preferred, and on the other hand they are gladly received by the gift of faith given to us because we see the the truth and reliability in the name and character of or Father. Thanks!!!!

Unto every GOOD work is likely a key too, as it speaks of the widow and mentions if she hath followed every GOOD work as well, that might be worth tying in.

 

[DesiredHaven]

He says examine yourselves if Christ be in you (except ye actually be rebrobate) which is rejected (castaway) and speaks of being reprobate unto every good work, which is connected to a vessel of honour fit for the masters use, here are some connecting verses taking a look at it from that angle

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God,
that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

1Cr 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

2Cr 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake,
that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

1Thes 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts,
to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
　
Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour,
sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Heb 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you
that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1Thes 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

1Thes 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

Heb 13:21Make you perfect in every good work to do his will,

Titus 1:15 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient,
and unto every good work reprobate.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge,
God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Heb 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will,
working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1Cr 6:13 Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

1Thes 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use,
and prepared unto every good work.

1 Ti 5:10 speaks of the widow being taken into account as one having followed every good work, one of which is washing the feet of the saints, which Jesus sets as an example to his own apostles (washing their feet) and Jesus said if he their Lord did so, then they too ought to wash one anothers feet (as is mentioned in respect to the widow) Jesus said if you know these things blessed are ye if you do them.

So might be worth defining every good work (and connecting these things back to them.

 

[just-me]

The law (Torah) can be a curse or a blessing depending on faith or the absence of it.

Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2 Timothy 3:8

As I understand, these 2 were diviners (worshiping Egyptian gods and so on) that came out of Egypt with Israel during the exodus known as sojourners who were not of a circumcised heart. They are mentioned in what we know as the Talmud which is not part of scripture but writings by the scribes of Israel BC. They had no faith in God's instructions through Moses and came against him during their trek of 40 years. Obviously they didn't make it to the promised land.

So rejection of Moses' writings that are straight from God, as these two, causes the end result to be reprobate (rejected).

 

[Dan_473]

In the last 2,000 years there is a massive amount of ignorance on the part of the Gentiles who erroneously sort the requirements in the Torah into a Jewish-only pile.

a good thread... and I'm hoping we can talk about this positively...

What's your take on what they say in acts 15? are they not making a distinction about gentiles?

 

[Bowhunter2394]

Examine yourselves whether you be in the faith.

Galatians 3:11-12
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Galatians 5:22-23

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Is this fruit produced by the observance of, or the adherence to the "instructions" of the Law? Do these fruit, that are produced by faith in Christ, cause the law to be void? No. These fruit establish the law.

The carnal mind thinks it can follow spiritual instructions. It can't. That's why God, in His Mercy and Love, gave us a New Covenant in Christ.

If you go back to trying to follow the Law in your own understanding you have despised and rejected the work of the Lord Jesus Christ in bringing us Salvation. Which is by Grace through Faith and no other means.

This is starting to get old...

Yep, they do DESPITE unto the Spirit of Grace! Paul said.. ye have fallen from Grace' Indeed! Treading upon the Blood of Christ, which was so Graciously Shed for them.. wow... keep your eyes on Christ and Him Crucified, thats always a HUMBLE PLACE TO ABIDE.. under the Shadow of the Cross..

 

[just-me]

a good thread... and I'm hoping we can talk about this positively...

What's your take on what they say in acts 15? are they not making a distinction about gentiles?

In order to begin the new walk in Christ, it was prudent that the Gentiles would not be burdened with the extensive instructions of the Torah that the Jews already knew. Those 3 or 4 things you brought up in Acts 15 are generalities to more explicit definitive depths as one grows in the grace of Jesus Christ and begins learning the idiosyncrasies of the definitive concepts of the Torah. It was a starting point for each individual to grow according to their desire and comprehension. It's likened unto a child of young age not being able to grasp the concepts that an older child would have the ability to grasp. That's why being born again needs to be seen as one desiring the sincere milk of the word but not being able to digest the meat just yet, but strive for maturity in the word so eventually the meat can be digested.

"As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:" 1 Peter 2:2

Then Paul is somewhat disgusted that the church in Corinth is not growing in the grace of Christ Jesus. Being born again is not the ending of things, it's a beginning of a new life, but maturity cannot be accomplished over night.

1 Corinthians 3:1-3
1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Acts 15 is only the beginning for the Gentiles, not the totality of their completion by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Dan_473]

In order to begin the new walk in Christ, it was prudent that the Gentiles would not be burdened with the extensive instructions of the Torah that the Jews already knew. Those 3 or 4 things you brought up in Acts 15 are generalities to more explicit definitive depths as one grows in the grace of Jesus Christ and begins learning the idiosyncrasies of the definitive concepts of the Torah. It was a starting point for each individual to grow according to their desire and comprehension. It's likened unto a child of young age not being able to grasp the concepts that an older child would have the ability to grasp. That's why being born again needs to be seen as one desiring the sincere milk of the word but not being able to digest the meat just yet, but strive for maturity in the word so eventually the meat can be digested.

"As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:" 1 Peter 2:2

Then Paul is somewhat disgusted that the church in Corinth is not growing in the grace of Christ Jesus. Being born again is not the ending of things, it's a beginning of a new life, but maturity cannot be accomplished over night.

1 Corinthians 3:1-3
1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Acts 15 is only the beginning for the Gentiles, not the totality of their completion by any stretch of the imagination.

good points!

now, the problem I see with the interpretation of acts 15 as being only a beginning, just a starting place for the gentiles, is that Peter says that he, his friends, and their fathers couldn't 'bear the yoke'...

if it's a matter of 'meat' that the gentiles aren't yet ready to digest, well, Peter and the others can't digest it either...

 

[just-me]

good points!

now, the problem I see with the interpretation of acts 15 as being only a beginning, just a starting place for the gentiles, is that Peter says that he, his friends, and their fathers couldn't 'bear the yoke'...

if it's a matter of 'meat' that the gentiles aren't yet ready to digest, well, Peter and the others can't digest it either...

"Meat" must be seen as Spiritual in the New Covenant. The physical "meat" is for the health of the physical body, Spiritual "meat" is for the Spiritually mature. The blood is life to the flesh. That's why the shedding of blood is so important in a spiritual sense. The shedding of blood kills the flesh. The physical is there for us to understand the Spiritual. The foreshadowing is actually a parable.

"Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" Acts 15:10

It is impossible to bear if humans believe this can all be done with a physical carnal mind by ones own self. Not even David (who loved the law) was perfect according to the law when he became involved with Bathsheba.

"But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood." Acts 15:20

Fornication, things strangled, and the drinking of blood, were all connected with idol worship, and were spiritually recognized even by the pagans. It was all physical gratification to this pagan practice. So the intentions were for the Gentiles to begin to understand that the law must be defined in a Spiritual sense in every case. It was the beginning of the Gentiles learning what was pure and what was corrupt. It was the beginning of knowing that the law is spiritual and the flesh is corrupt.

"For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin." Romans 7:14

As the beleiving Jews understood (Paul being of the tribe of Benjamin), there will always be a battle within us who have the Spiritual law (defined by its physical application) written on our hearts as Paul, for he was a minister to the Gentiles.

 

[Dan_473]

...Spiritual "meat" is for the Spiritually mature.

doesn't Peter says he and the church elders haven't been able bear it?... I take that to mean that they couldn't bear it in the past, and can't bear it in the present...

 

[just-me]

doesn't Peter says he and the church elders haven't been able bear it?... I take that to mean that they couldn't bear it in the past, and can't bear it in the present...

Where did you get that they couldn't bear it in the present? Where would that concept be in scripture?

"But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible" Matthew 19:26

This is the difference between carnal thinking and Spiritual thinking. We love the Lord with our minds also.

"I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." Romans 7:25

 

[Jon4TheCross]

I thought I should add the following scriptures for edification and because they are scriptures relating to the topic.

2 Samuel 23:6-7 New King James Version (NKJV)

6*But the sons of rebellion shall all be as thorns thrust away,
Because they cannot be taken with hands.
7*But the man who touches them
Must be armed with iron and the shaft of a spear,
And they shall be utterly burned with fire in their place.”

 

[Dan_473]

Where did you get that they couldn't bear it in the present? Where would that concept be in scripture?

"But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible" Matthew 19:26

This is the difference between carnal thinking and Spiritual thinking. We love the Lord with our minds also.

"I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." Romans 7:25

I think it's in what Peter says...

if I say my computer got a virus on it, and I haven't been able to remove it, I take that to mean the from the time the computer got the virus up to the time I say it, the state remains the same... me being unable to remove it...

if I removed the virus yesterday, I would say, 'I wasn't able to remove it'... which means that there was a time that I couldn't, but then there was a time I was able to...



what Peter says is that they haven't been able to... not that they weren't able to...



could God give people the power to bear the law of Moses? yes! did he do that for Peter and James? I don't think so... they call it an unbearable yoke, trouble, and a burden...

 

[Jeff_56]

Being rejected and a castaway or a reprobate is all the same no?

no, but perhaps
in some context(you've referred to) all 3 DIFFERENT perhaps applied to the same person.

 

[just-me]

I think it's in what Peter says...

if I say my computer got a virus on it, and I haven't been able to remove it, I take that to mean the from the time the computer got the virus up to the time I say it, the state remains the same... me being unable to remove it...

if I removed the virus yesterday, I would say, 'I wasn't able to remove it'... which means that there was a time that I couldn't, but then there was a time I was able to...



what Peter says is that they haven't been able to... not that they weren't able to...



could God give people the power to bear the law of Moses? yes! did he do that for Peter and James? I don't think so... they call it an unbearable yoke, trouble, and a burden...

"Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" Acts 15:10

As I have studied, this yoke is referring to the Oral Law, not the Written Torah of Moses. The Oral Law is the Talmud written by the Pharisees. This Oral Law put many additional burdens on the Jews, and greatly limited the ability of the Gentiles to join Israel, as those who are grafted into the Olive Tree.

Deuteronomy 30:8-11
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the Lord, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And the Lord thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the Lord will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.

"There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless." Luke 1:5-6

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:3

So Acts 15:10 is referring more to the Pharisees additions to the original Torah. Most of the Talmud is okay as far as I know, but the details written therein can be extremely confusing to anyone who doesn't know the original law given to Moses to begin with.

This next verse are the original words of Paul after he was accused of preaching heresy.

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:14

 

[DesiredHaven]

"Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" Acts 15:10

As I have studied, this yoke is referring to the Oral Law, not the Written Torah of Moses. The Oral Law is the Talmud written by the Pharisees. This Oral Law put many additional burdens on the Jews, and greatly limited the ability of the Gentiles to join Israel, as those who are grafted into the Olive Tree.

Deuteronomy 30:8-11
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the Lord, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And the Lord thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the Lord will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.


"There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless." Luke 1:5-6

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:3

So Acts 15:10 is referring more to the Pharisees additions to the original Torah. Most of the Talmud is okay as far as I know, but the details written therein can be extremely confusing to anyone who doesn't know the original law given to Moses to begin with.

This next verse are the original words of Paul after he was accused of preaching heresy.

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:14

It sure looks like when Paul is confessing that after the way he worships God, he means Jesus Christ who they believe is heretical

Paul says, After the way there or rather...

Or after Jesus Christ (which they call heresy) as Paul knew it as that is shown in Acts 9:2

Because Paul had orders to go after those who followed "this way" and he knew they called it a heresy/sect

As Jesus Christ is the way
They were called followers ofthis way.

These believing (as even they themselves profess) all that the prophets have spoken. Just as Jesus shared in relation to himself (and them) in Luke 24:25. He reproved them in the present things as all the law and the prophets have spoken in relation to himself. Worshipping God would be in Spirit and in truth (which Jesus spoke of) as the Spirit of promise would be poured out according to the testimony in the law and the prophets.

But Paul also said he was blameless when touching the righteousness which is in the law (Phil 3:8-9) and speak of what was gain to him and what he counted as loss.

The last verse you post (where you might have overlooked what is left unhightlighted might show it better (together) in the following verses which seem to speak in accord.

Paul said, believing all the law and the prophets, (but that was not the way there)

" They are they (the law and the prophets) which testify of me (the way) Paul is saying in that one place Acts 24:14 what Jesus has said here

Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: (which was) Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning ((himself))

Those things (in them) "concerning himself"

Who said, I am "the way" ( heresy )

Then go to Paul confessing ((Christ)) is heresy

...................which is after (( the way )) they call heresy

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee,that after ((( the way ))) which they ((( call heresy ))), ((so worship I the God of my fathers))), believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Jesus Christ being the righteousness of God without the law
YET being witnessed by the law and the prophets

Because these are they which testify of me

Or, the righteousness of God (manifest)

So they called this way (Jesus Christ) to whom the law and prophets bear witness of a heresy.

See it here with Paul,

Acts 9:2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of ((((this way)))) whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

Those of "this way" (or of Jesus Christ, the way) was he who Paul stated he followed after ((believing all the law and prophets))) which bear witness ((of him, the way)) which he understood (being a Pharisee) that they called ((the way)) hersey.

He is sort of hid in that verse, if you skip over the part you can easily start justifying the law and the prophets but in a different way then he meant (which was that both them and Paul were pointing to Jesus Christ there)

Or "AFTER "the WAY" (which they call of the law called hersey) so worshipped Paul the God of the fathers (believing all in the law and the prophets as they themselves allow, but didnt understand these things.

See what I mean?

It is sorta hid there, but it makes sense as to why those of the law would call that which believes all the law and the prophets a heresy, and because its Jesus Christ (the righteousness of God without the law) although they bear witness to him.